1591 réponses à ce sujet

[Terodil]

Female shep is not canon. We were fortunate that we got a female poster-Shepard at all. Just like Revan is male and light-side, according to canon.

BW is notoriously bad at managing their canon. I'm still irate over Revan's sex and alignment change. >(

[Panda]

Would you have the same complaint if romances were tipped in favor of male characters? That has always been the case in the past. Why is it an issue if Bioware decides to favor female characters? The next ME game will probably favor male characters again, and no one will complain -- because that's standard ("normal").

 

Actually people complained about ME3 that had scales tipped in favor male characters. Well people would complain about romances whatever Bioware does anyways, about their looks, personalities, stories etc. ^^; But I guess that's just normal, people liking different things.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Because a- she is NOT female and b- personality is arguably far more important than looks.

Liara is female, her race just have 1 gender & even if she wasn't technically female, from Shepard's POV she still looks & sounds like a female so a straight F!Shep wouldn't be interested in her sexually

[Terodil]

Liara is female, her race just have 1 gender & even if she wasn't technically female, from Shepard's POV she still looks & sounds like a female so a straight F!Shep wouldn't be interested in her sexually

She isn't female.

"Female" makes no sense if there is no "male" counterpart. There isn't.

Mono-gendered species, you know.

With all due respect, your PoV doesn't matter in this context.

[Panda]

She isn't female.

"Female" makes no sense if there is no "male" counterpart. There isn't.

Mono-gendered species, you know.

 

She's monogendered lore-wise. However player and romance-wise she does appear female. If you asked people to describe her, they would state that her gender is female, blue alien girl would likely be answer. You also use "she" for her instead of "they" for example so the language around her is already gendered as female as well.

 

Romance-wise I think that players- and Shepard even lorewise, have hardtime to not see Liara as female over how obviously female her looks are.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

She isn't female.

"Female" makes no sense if there is no "male" counterpart. There isn't.

Mono-gendered species, you know.

With all due respect, your PoV doesn't matter in this context.

Lets just agree to disagree, is a lesbian relationship IMO considering Liara looks & sounds exactly like a blue skinned tentacle headed human female but if you believe different then thats fine

[Terodil]

Yeah. Well.

I do perceive Liara as female as well. But I'm keenly aware of the fact that it is a misperception based on an anthropocentric view of the universe, and I believe that such biases need to be challenged at every opportunity (so what if 95% of gamers consider Liara female -- then 95% are wrong!). Actually that's one of the reasons why I found Liara so fascinating.

[Shechinah]

(to Terodil) There is an all-female species of reptiles called the "Desert Grassland Whiptail", I believe, which has no male counterpart and is, as previously mentioned, considered female. Simply because they have no male counterparts does not mean they are not female.

 

I think I may be misunderstanding your point, however, so if you could perhaps elaborate or clarify I would appreciate it.

[Terodil]

Shechinah: That's fascinating! Thank you!

Huh, you never stop learning. I stand corrected.

Which brings up the question: Why are Asari *not* classified as female then? If it hinges on the presence of the specific sex's reproductive organs, then does that mean that... uh huh...

[Shechinah]

Interestingly, there is a theory that the aforementioned all-female species commited gendercide... oh. *eyes the asari suspiciously*

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Yeah. Well.

I do perceive Liara as female as well. But I'm keenly aware of the fact that it is a misperception based on an anthropocentric view of the universe, and I believe that such biases need to be challenged at every opportunity (so what if 95% of gamers consider Liara female -- then 95% are wrong!). Actually that's one of the reasons why I found Liara so fascinating.

Is confusing tbh cos the codex calls the asari a "all female race" but Liara says she's not exactly a woman in dialogue

[Shechinah]

(to Terodil) Nature has pretty much been screwing with the concept of gender for a long, long time:

The Amazon Molly Fish is apparently only female and reproduce only with males of another species though whether they actually need the sperm to produce eggs or simply need the other to stimulate the process that begins it is something I'm not sure about. Regardless, the offspring in question is genetically the mother's.

[Felya87]

Didn't BW once say gay male Shep was against his characterisation & that he was straight in canon? would explain why they tried so hard to make people believe that F!Shep/Liara wasn't a lesbian relationship even tho it obviously was

 

In truth, the very early works where all about Female Shepard. But marketing decided the male countepart was more important and palatable for the public, so Shep had a predefined face and appeared in every piece of marketing 

[Shechinah]

I heard about the claim that Bioware said something like that but I only recall hearing about it and never seeing it. I find it... odd to say the least that they would have said something in that regard considering there was work made to have Ashley and Kaidan be open to both genders in ME1 which would suggests there was no set sexuality for malShep.

 

If they did, it sounds like one person trying to unofficially give an excuse and winding up with that unfortunate statement.  

[Domiel Angelus]

(to Terodil) Nature has pretty much been screwing with the concept of gender for a long, long time:

The Amazon Molly Fish is apparently only female and reproduce only with males of another species though whether they actually need the sperm to produce eggs or simply need the other to stimulate the process that begins it is something I'm not sure about. Regardless, the offspring in question is genetically the mother's.

 

Yes, but with both the Molly and the Whiptail, the partner is never called the father. When an Asari mates with a female of another species she is called the "Father" of the child or the "Mother" when mating with a male of another species, and when two Asari mate one is the "Mother" and one is the "Father".

 

In the case of the Whiptail, no male of any species is required and sexual reproduction isn't actually required in anyway, ovulation may be increased in speed by a female/female pseudo-copulation.

 

The Molly is a better representation in nature for the Asari even though its imperfect because a Molly is a creature that follows the sexual practice of gynogenesis which is a fancy way of saying she just needs the sperm in the presence of her eggs for them to develop; it doesn't give any genetic data unto the egg. In an Asari's case, he/she becomes pregnant in the presence of a shuffled amount of DNA, only very finite characteristics of the non-Asari partner come out such as Krogan temperament.

 

So if you want to be technical from the most nature style standpoint, an Asari is the akin to a salamander of the genus Ambystoma; they breed via gynogenesis as well but there is a slim chance the the eggs will acquire traits from the male parent for the sake of genetic diversity. Asari create the slim chance by breeding outside their species whether the partner be male or female. When they breed within their race/species they're pushing the bad traits upward in favor of the lack of new genetic material and that's why the Ardat-Yakshi are a thing. Its the same reason why cousins aren't supposed to marry.........because without genetic diversity you're more likely to see the horrendous recessive traits.

[Shechinah]

(to Dominel Angelus) I'm pretty sure the Asari would still be referred to as the mother if they reproduced with a female of another species like, say, humans because the asari reproduction has, far as I know, them carrying the child always and I do not think they can reproduce in a non-artificial way with a female of another species in a way that result  in the other female being impregnated.

[daveliam]

Is confusing tbh cos the codex calls the asari a "all female race" but Liara says she's not exactly a woman in dialogue

 

She isn't female.

"Female" makes no sense if there is no "male" counterpart. There isn't.

Mono-gendered species, you know.

With all due respect, your PoV doesn't matter in this context.

From the asari codex in ME:

 

"An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of parthenogenesis."

 

Asari are canonically female.  They aren't "women" (a term used for female humans) because they aren't human.  But they are female. 

 

I heard about the claim that Bioware said something like that but I only recall hearing about it and never seeing it. I find it... odd to say the least that they would have said something in that regard considering there was work made to have Ashley and Kaidan be open to both genders in ME1 which would suggests there was no set sexuality for malShep.

 

If they did, it sounds like one person trying to unofficially give an excuse and winding up with that unfortunate statement.  

 

Yeah, this was a giant mess when it happened.

 

Here's the synopsis:

 

* People complained that gay males didn't have any romances in ME.

 

* Bioware responded by saying that Shep is a pre-determined character and that s/he wasn't gay

 

* People responded by saying that FemShep could be a lesbian because of the Liara romance

 

* Bioware responded by contradicting their in-game lore and saying that Liara didn't count as a f/f romance because they were mono-gendered (despite the fact that a mono-gendered race still needs to have ONE gender -- i.e. female in this case)

 

* When ME2 came out and Kelly Chambers was introduced as a f/f romance, people pointed out that, the asari-gender thing aside, FemShep can definitely be gay now since she can romance both Liara (a female) and Kelly (a female)

 

* Finally Bioware responded by saying that they would explore m/m options for maleShep in ME3, which they did  (also interesting to note that they said that they gave two options for each gender/sexuality combination and include Liara as a f/f romance by ME 3......)

 

Basically, the team didn't think about and/or want to put in m/m options in the series, but wanted to put f/f options in.  Instead of just saying that, they tried to use these twisted chains of semi-logic to make arguments for why FemShep could get with girls, but maleShep couldn't get with guys.  It just ended up making them look stupid and, ultimately, they ended up putting them in (thankfully since in my mind maleShep/Kaidan is the only way to play the game).  It was embarrassing to experience. 

 

I've heard to sides to the "Kaidan was originally bisexual" story.  On one side, I've heard it was intended and scrapped because of time constraints.  On the other side, I've heard that they had both actors record all of the lines regardless of whether they were intended to use them or not.  I'm not sure where I fall on it.  Kaidan's certainly bisexual canonically.  But I'm just not sure if he was always intended to be so.

[Domiel Angelus]

I heard about the claim that Bioware said something like that but I only recall hearing about it and never seeing it. I find it... odd to say the least that they would have said something in that regard considering there was work made to have Ashley and Kaidan be open to both genders in ME1 which would suggests there was no set sexuality for malShep.

 

If they did, it sounds like one person trying to unofficially give an excuse and winding up with that unfortunate statement.  

 

Based on very old work from the designers, forever and a day ago; All three were up in the air and had all of the dialogue for both straight and gay romances already read from their voice actors, you can find it if you mine the files big time. That's a big reason why their conversations seem so stilted when you're dealing with them as the same sex, they had way more to say but lost it. All Kaidan wants to do is talk about his implants when you're male shep. 

[Kierro Ren]

Garrus is great  and the tango scene is funny and lovely. He is really what save my female shepard in ME3.

 

I agree would have been cute for gay males have the chance to romance him too. Or there should have been something for them prior ME3. 

But I can't be grateful enought to have Garrus in ME as a romance.

 

There could be a chance to have gay romance with a Turian, or another alien, in the new ME. It's not Garrus true, but still...

[Shechinah]

(to daveliam) Wauw, that sounds... wauw.

[Gileadan]

Basically, the team didn't think about and/or want to put in m/m options in the series, but wanted to put f/f options in.  Instead of just saying that, they tried to use these twisted chains of semi-logic to make arguments for why FemShep could get with girls, but maleShep couldn't get with guys.  It just ended up making them look stupid and, ultimately, they ended up putting them in (thankfully since in my mind maleShep/Kaidan is the only way to play the game).  It was embarrassing to experience. 

Oh yes. It's the same type of not-logic they used when people asked them why templar NPCs in DA2 never tried to collect mage-Hawke for the Gallows, and their reply was that at the time of writing they didn't know whether blood mage would be a spec available to players. As if templars were only after blood mages and ignored all other mages. "We screwed up" are among the hardest words to say or write known to mankind.

[Shechinah]

(to Gileadan) "We screwed up" are among the hardest words to say or write known to mankind"

 

True dat.

[Felya87]

There could be a chance to have gay romance with a Turian, or another alien, in the new ME. It's not Garrus true, but still...

 

I would already be happy with a male Quarian like Kal'Reggar (I'd prefer to romance him with a female, throught. But if he was male only, I would be more than Ok to roll a male character.)

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Oh yes. It's the same type of not-logic they used when people asked them why templar NPCs in DA2 never tried to collect mage-Hawke for the Gallows, and their reply was that at the time of writing they didn't know whether blood mage would be a spec available to players. As if templars were only after blood mages and ignored all other mages. "We screwed up" are among the hardest words to say or write known to mankind.

Playing as a mage in DA2 was funny, Kirkwall is very harsh with its treatment of mages but the Templars are fine with Hawke dropping fireballs from the sky in broad daylight in full view of themselves & other witnesses

[Shechinah]

(to XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX) Whenever that bothered me, I used to headcanon that since my Hawke carried bombs including firebombs, the Templars believed the stories and sights of Hawke using magic was just that and, because of Varric, exaggeration.