What still bothers me is the notion that Cullen and Solas were kept straight because "it didn't fit their character" to be bisexual.
That is annoying because it implies that there are certain characteristics and personality traits that are incompatible with being bisexual or gay. That is BS and really annoys me.
I don't think they meant it like that
You forgot when they said Shepard had no gay options because they wanted to keep it PG-13.
That was fun.
I really do not remember that, unless it passed my radar I doubt it.
I won't assume it's true or assume it's false, but I'd really love to have sources on everything. My curiosity must be sated!
You forgot when they said Shepard had no gay options because they wanted to keep it PG-13.That was fun.
I won't assume it's true or assume it's false, but I'd really love to have sources on everything. My curiosity must be sated!
Yeah, I'd like a source for that. I've heard that BioWare had said that before, but I haven't seen any proof of it yet. Everything I've read in regards to LGBT options from BioWare has them stating that having gay romances doesn't affect their rating at all. That they chuckle at the notion that their games should have an AO rating due to LGBT romances. In fact, I've read several articles by both EA and BioWare defending LGBT romance options and that they were proud to include them in their games. One of them was an article from EA back in October of 2012, so color me confused.
They've also stated several times that these games aren't for people too young for the rating system, so they have zero interest in keeping LGBT options away "for the sake of the children" or to "make sure they don't get higher than an M rating."
I'm not kidding, I've had someone back in the ToR forums tell me that any game that has gay people or worse (for them) a gay relationship should have an AO rating so their 8 and 10 year old kids don't have to be "exposed" to that. One person quite memorably told me that she was a mother that was very opposed to gay relationships in video games because (get this) it would be too hard to explain to her kids. That were 9 and 12. She brought up DA and ME as well, stating that BioWare "needs to stop with LGBT content because it would be too hard for a child to understand." Yes, we pointed out that these were M rated games, which she then told us that, "Oh, but everyone knows their core audience are younger kids."
Give me a sodding break.
Yeah, I'd like a source for that. I've heard that BioWare had said that before, but I haven't seen any proof of it yet. Everything I've read in regards to LGBT options from BioWare has them stating that having gay romances doesn't affect their rating at all. That they chuckle at the notion that their games should have an AO rating due to LGBT romances. In fact, I've read several articles by both EA and BioWare defending LGBT romance options and that they were proud to include them in their games. One of them was an article from EA back in October of 2012, so color me confused.
They've also stated several times that these games aren't for people too young for the rating system, so they have zero interest in keeping LGBT options away "for the sake of the children" or to "make sure they don't get higher than an M rating."
I'm not kidding, I've had someone back in the ToR forums tell me that any game that has gay people or worse (for them) a gay relationship should have an AO rating so their 8 and 10 year old kids don't have to be "exposed" to that. One person quite memorably told me that she was a mother that was very opposed to gay relationships in video games because (get this) it would be too hard to explain to her kids. That were 9 and 12. She brought up DA and ME as well, stating that BioWare "needs to stop with LGBT content because it would be too hard for a child to understand." Yes, we pointed out that these were M rated games, which she then told us that, "Oh, but everyone knows their core audience are younger kids."
Give me a sodding break.
Not at all Bioware related or on topic at all but now I know what kind of backwards thinking to thank taking all the s/s options out of my version of Harvest Moon DS Cute ahhh sad times. Kay I'll leave now >>;
You haven't been around very long if you don't remember.
Here's the quote for those that can't check out the link. This was the question specifically that was asked.
Tali is my favorite character. But my Shepard is female and totally in love with her. Why can’t my character engage in a romance with her? Why not have the option to have homosexual relations?
Casey Hudson: Everything new that we add still requires extra content. Some people might argue in a case like that you could just have the same kinds of scenes that just work with different characters. But we wouldn’t really want to have it that way. You’d want to take a proper approach to designing those scenes, otherwise you’d see the same scene. So we kind of pulled back and looked at where we had to draw the line in terms of how much content we make. How much should we support? We actually added a lot more romance options because we have new characters and multiple options already in the romances.
So we kind of pulled back and said, "Well, the love interest is part of the story and it helps you care about the characters in a different way." We still view it as... if you’re picturing a PG-13 action movie. That’s how we’re trying to design it. So that’s why the love interest is relatively light. ... That’s another thing we did better than we did before. We really lock you into character. Tali is really interesting because the whole idea of her character and what she’s concerned about and her experience and age -- we kind of factor all those things, and we designed the love interests really around the particular characters because they’re all quite different. So her (love scene) is a little more innocent and fun.
Ray Muzyka: In all of BioWare’s games to-date, we’ve enabled a lot of choice. So you look at games going back to Baldur’s Gate, Baldur’s Gate 2, Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age, of course... In future games we are going to enable more choice as well. That choice can come as a lot of things, it includes relationships, it includes having an impact on world events, among other things. It’s an important part of our games.Sometimes, in some of our games, we are going to have a defined character with a more defined view. Almost like a third-person narrative -- where Mass Effect is more in that vein, Dragon Age isn’t in that vein; you could see the differences between the two. It’s just part of the design and the choices made for each game. It doesn’t mean that we’ve in anyway changed our philosophy toward enabling choice. We love giving players choice, and we are going to continue to enable that for future games. That’s a commitment for some of our franchises. For some other franchises we’ve had more defined characters and sort of approaches to things, and they’ve had a more defined personality and a more defined approach to the way they’ve proceed through the game and the world.Some game franchises are going to be slightly different but that’s part of our effort to diversify the portfolio and enable some franchises to have some more choice and some of them are around defining a more specific character, sort of a first-person versus third-person kind of narrative, but we know how important it is to our players to have that choice and we are going to continue to support that. We believe in diversity and we believe in enabling choices for our fans, it’s important to us.
Edited out personal opinion and doing my best Joe Friday impression. "Just the facts, ma'am."
While we sit and wait for possible sources instead of simple hearsay, what does everyone think about (nearly) every potential love interest having a chaste relationship option? With the exception that it wouldn't fit the character, but with how many "slutty bisexuals™" they've tossed into their games, I think they could go a few installments without putting in a character who wouldn't jive with that. To elaborate, a romantic relationship complete with kissing and all that great stuff, but not forcing sex upon us. A relationship where it could be amicably agreed upon that it's not a necessary activity between them and it may never be, or where either party is simply not ready and wants to wait (like Dorian's romance).
I found it dumb that we have only two potential options for that (Josie and Dorian). No one else has the choice. "You wanna be in a relationship with me? Get the lube." I remember one of the devs, before the game came out, making a snippy comment (no surprise there) when someone asked if they could finally have a relationship that didn't require sex. Something along the lines of, "There are a some characters you don't have to have sex with. If that's not good enough for you/if sex bothers you, then don't romance anyone." I might be paraphrasing that wrong, but that was the extent of the comment. Edit: It was a rude comment, and it basically implied that "if you don't like/want sex, you don't deserve to experience a relationship." Either way, it wasn't the first time Bioware was like, "If you don't like certain content, just skip it and miss out entirely!" for DAI. It speaks poorly of your game and you.
Feels like they were so proud of that fully naked female body (wow, so brave and revolutionary!) that they wanted to shove it in our faces one way or another.
Now I regret posting the link at all.
This is not the forum for rehashing ancient history (that has nothing to do with DA).
It happened. People who were there remember. It hardly matters now.
You know not everyone on the forum was around for it, and that's some pretty damning stuff to say about BioWare. It turned out to be pretty much true and when someone makes statements like that, I always ask for a source.
I sincerely thank you for putting the link, because it was an interesting look into BioWare's past. If anything, I appreciate the company even more for maturing over the years. They've come a long way since then. You may regret it, but I don't. 
I remembered the whole "Hurr durr man Shepard is canonically straight [fart fart fart]" debacle from several years ago, but I only knew the pg-13 thing as hearsay (though, I never put that kind of foot-in-mouth crap beyond Bioware because they do spout hypocritical nonsense from time to time.)
I give you....Sebastian Vael
Pretty chaste fellow he was
I remembered the whole "Hurr durr man Shepard is canonically straight [fart fart fart]" debacle from several years ago, but I only knew the pg-13 thing as hearsay (though, I never put that kind of foot-in-mouth crap beyond Bioware because they do spout hypocritical nonsense from time to time.)
It's weird...reading that actually made me happy. While BioWare does spout crap from time to time, they have come so far since those days.
Ahem, anyway...So CDR, you mentioned that you wouldn't mind another option to choose from. Any ideas? I think someone that isn't so pro-Chantry would be a welcome change at this point. It would also be nice if straight male PCs got the chance to romance an elf, since I've seen some requests for that. I find it a little funny that in BG2 and in NWN, the elven options were all romanceable as well as all female. Yet, in DA, there has been only one.
Anyhow, is there any requests you have? Race? General looks? Religious/political leanings? Do share. 
It's not out of context.Okay, there is no real defending this one. Still, the question was about Tali, with "no homosexual relationships" at the end of it. So, yeah...I think some of this got seriously taken out of context.
I just meant for it to be another item in Dave's list. Just something to note about how BioWare (particularly that other team) has not always been the champion of inclusion that we currently celebrate them for.You know not everyone on the forum was around for it, and that's some pretty damning stuff to say about BioWare. It turned out to be pretty much true and when someone makes statements like that, I always ask for a source.
I sincerely thank you for putting the link, because it was an interesting look into BioWare's past. If anything, I appreciate the company even more for maturing over the years. They've come a long way since then. You may regret it, but I don't.
I give you....Sebastian Vael
Pretty chaste fellow he was
Still don't think he counts! The only straight character in DA2 (and a DLC character at that), plus there isn't even choice as to whether the relationship is chaste. The important thing to me is the ability to choose that.
Also if they force a sex-having relationship on us (with the only alternative being a single life), it'd be nice if they showed absolutely none of it, not even the (naked) aftermath of it, or gave us a kind of toggle in that regard. "Want the clothes/undergarments to be on in the post-sex cut scene? >Yes >No" etc.
It's not out of context.
You can assume that it's not malice, but Casey's response to why you couldn't have a lesbian relationship was "zots" and "PG-13", and Ray's was "defined personality". (This was reported as being more about gay relationships because there actually was a lesbian relationship in ME2—but don't tell Ray that!)
That's why I edited my post. You have a good point about not making that the focus of the discussion. So I figured that I'd just leave the quotes and drop the rest. 
I just meant for it to be another item in Dave's list. Just something to note about how BioWare (particularly that other team) has not always been the champion of inclusion that we currently celebrate them for.
But I didn't want it to turn into a big discussion about how that team chose to handle the issue.
I'll add that to my list too. Then again, it seems like the ME series was a growing period for the company. I also am well aware that BioWare hasn't been the most inclusive. Far too well, after my experiences in ToR unfortunately. That was an interesting ride. I'm glad the DA team has consistently been better about this issue than the ME team was.
Anyhow, how about those options for straight men in this series?
I'm a fan of a blonde haired/green eyed dwarf or elven lady myself. It would be nice to have an option for the straight male character that isn't so pro-Chantry as well. I use the term "character" because I know of some other women like myself that play straight men sometimes.
It's weird...reading that actually made me happy. While BioWare does spout crap from time to time, they have come so far since those days.
Ahem, anyway...So CDR, you mentioned that you wouldn't mind another option to choose from. Any ideas? I think someone that isn't so pro-Chantry would be a welcome change at this point. It would also be nice if straight male PCs got the chance to romance an elf, since I've seen some requests for that. I find it a little funny that in BG2 and in NWN, the elven options were all romanceable as well as all female. Yet, in DA, there has been only one.
Anyhow, is there any requests you have? Race? General looks? Religious/political leanings? Do share.
Well, one of my favorite tropes is the KISA with total dedication to his/her lord/lady (respectively, or not). I think it's really cute, and if they went back to the Origins roots, I could see one of the origin options being a lord or lady and already having some kind of history with his/her knight. If the player doesn't pick that origin, they meet up with the knight some other way, and things move on from there! Nationality-wise, I think this trope would work best with Marchers, Nevarrans, Tevinters, and possibly Ander and Rivaini people! It'd work fine with Orlesians and Fereldans, but I'm absolutely sick of Orlesians, and Fereldans have had enough screen time.
Actually, I can easily see a dwarven equivalent of this, as well, and I'd absolutely adore it. 
I loved the friendship/romance the noble dwarf has with Gorim. Ideally in the dwarf case, I'd like it to take place in that other dwarven city as opposed to Orzammar (though, I do miss Orzammar).
A soft/seldom-spoken, stoic (former) Saarebas would be wonderful, male or female. My personal preference would be a male, but that's because I thought up the basics of a character, and even went so far as to draw him. 
I think a neutral alignment would work best (escaped from the Qun, wants to look out for her/himself, but maybe not to an over-the-top degree, etc). Maybe even twin Saarebas, male and female! Exciting! Or one is Saarebas, and the other is a warrior who is protective over their sibling (I'd prefer the female being the protective warrior in this case.) Edit: Having two Qunari companions at once is a pretty big stretch, and we've already had two male Qunari companions (even though I'd personally prefer to pretend IB doesn't exist), so this Qunari should definitely be a woman.
A female elf warrior is sorely needed, but not as a KISA. I think she should be like Ariane, personality-wise (I loved Ariane!) Dalish or not, though I'd prefer a city elf, of sorts. I'm sick of the Dalish (except Ariane, but one of the reasons I loved her is because she could easily get along with anyone who's different with her--after a minor dispute perhaps--and she's never in-your-face about her dead culture and how oppressed her people are. Plus, she's cheeky!) Place of origin doesn't matter to me, as long as she doesn't have an obnoxious accent (Orlesian, Antivan, etc.)
We need an Avvar. I thought up a character a while ago, inspired by the Nature of the Beast questline. It's a lengthy concept, but needless to say, werewolf. Not even a former werewolf, but rather some unlucky Avvar wanderer from centuries ago who, by chance, helped defend a lonesome Flemeth from a werewolf attack (when werewolves had just began, so many centuries ago), was grievously wounded in the fight (and infected by the lycanthropy plague they carried), Flemeth healed his/her wounds, and "rewarded" him/her by binding a spirit to the new wolf blood itself. It doesn't prevent the Avvar from eventually turning, but he/she is now essentially unaging, thanks to the bound spirit. When the Hero of Ferelden eventually gets the plague cured (or perhaps, after centuries, its strong hold on the Avvar wears off--if it the werewolves were never cured), and the Avvar is returned to his/her human form, only to later discover that the wolf blood is still present, thus so is the spirit, and the Avvar possesses the unique ability to turn into a werewolf in combat. The Avvar also keeps the strong sense of smell, hearing, strength, speed (the latter two only to a small degree) in human form. Personality-wise, the Avvar is humble, but lives a lonely life (due to the pseudo-immortality), never fit in with all the rituals with his/her people, etc. Of course, this is waaay too unique compared to everyone else, and nobody loves a special snowflake, so he/she would stick out too much. (But there could be an interesting quest to see if the spirit can be removed, along with the wolf blood, if the Avvar is willing/unafraid, without killing him/her.) Perhaps a duel-wielding rogue, but with long-swords, or just a duel-wielding warrior.
I think we need Harding. 'Nuff said, really.
Beyond that, I'm currently out of ideas, lol. Edit: I'll try to think of more beyond this, to fill in all 6-9 potential companion slots, or 6-8 LI slots. Not that it really makes a difference, lol. Bioware doesn't make characters from fan ideas anyway. Still, it's fun to use my imagination, and who knows, some concepts could make decent characters for other/new series!
Wow. That's a lot of ideas. I really liked the Avvar one. I could tell you put a lot of thought into that, and I think it's a great idea. It would also give the writers a chance to return to the idea behind werewolves. I mean, those that followed the Lady of the Forest can't be the only ones...right?
Ah, forgot to mention my thoughts on possible devout characters. As long as they aren't like Leliana or Sebastian, I'm okay with certain companions/LI's being devout. Especially if they're more like Cassandra or Wynne with their faith, but no ignorance about it. Cassandra more than readily acknowledges that the chantry has changed for the worst, and that it must be brought back to its virtuous, altruistic past self.
Myself, I never play an Andrastian (basically, all my DA characters are very agnostic) in these games because I feel like the "Chantry" is a parody and gross (and most of the time unkind) exaggeration of Christianity, and as a Christian myself, I find it insulting. 
Wow. That's a lot of ideas. I really liked the Avvar one. I could tell you put a lot of thought into that, and I think it's a great idea. It would also give the writers a chance to return to the idea behind werewolves. I mean, those that followed the Lady of the Forest can't be the only ones...right?
Thank you! We saw in Awakening that the werewolves who were corrupted (either by the demons or darkspawn) were too far gone to be affected by the cure. But what if the cure itself had some kind of distance of effectiveness limit? Or what if there are many other werewolves with unique situations, many of whom roamed elsewhere. Werewolf/former werewolf clans and factions! Naturally, they couldn't just take a boat somewhere, though.
Thank you! We saw in Awakening that the werewolves who were corrupted (either by the demons or darkspawn) were too far gone to be affected by the cure. But what if the cure itself had some kind of distance of effectiveness limit? Or what if there are many other werewolves with unique situations, many of whom roamed elsewhere. Werewolf/former werewolf clans and factions! Naturally, they couldn't just take a boat somewhere, though.
Here's something I just thought of: While the Breach is sealed, what if some of the demons managed to hop a boat across the Waking Sea? As players, we've explored just about every inch of the surface of Southern Thedas by the time the DLCs for this game is finished. So I figure we'll be off to Northern Thedas come the next game, though I doubt it'll be in Tevinter just yet.
Anyway, it would seem odd if there weren't stragglers, and I could see them taking over a mage to quietly go across the water. Not all demons look, well, demonic after possessing a mage. Particularly the stronger ones, and there was a lot of Pride Demons around. An Envy demon can do it as well, and I would love to see that demon type making a return in some fashion.
Or else some of those demons could have been sent back to the Fade, and are back to their usual "Let's take over the nearest stupid mage," MO. Oh and also, Nevarra tends to entomb rather than bury their dead, and according to WoT they have a demon problem as a result. BioWare seems to like it's "Fish out of water" characters, so I think an Avvar could end up there.
Too many demons + post-Breach Thedas + an area known for demon problems + a new country = a win for me.
Now you've got my gears spinning with ideas.
Here's something I just thought of: While the Breach is sealed, what if some of the demons managed to hop a boat across the Waking Sea? As players, we've explored just about every inch of the surface of Southern Thedas by the time the DLCs for this game is finished. So I figure we'll be off to Northern Thedas come the next game, though I doubt it'll be in Tevinter just yet.
Anyway, it would seem odd if there weren't stragglers, and I could see them taking over a mage to quietly go across the water. Not all demons look, well, demonic after possessing a mage. Particularly the stronger ones, and there was a lot of Pride Demons around. An Envy demon can do it as well, and I would love to see that demon type making a return in some fashion.
Or else some of those demons could have been sent back to the Fade, and are back to their usual "Let's take over the nearest stupid mage," MO. Oh and also, Nevarra tends to entomb rather than bury their dead, and according to WoT they have a demon problem as a result. BioWare seems to like it's "Fish out of water" characters, so I think an Avvar could end up there.
Too many demons + post-Breach Thedas + an area known for demon problems + a new country = a win for me.
Yes! Ooh, what if we had a mage love interest, and we go through most of the game thinking everything's hunky dory, but then! Right at the end, he/she was possessed by a demon all along! And it was the demon who fell in love with you! Played seriously, I could actually see some potential in that! It'd also add a lot of new, if weird, perspective. But thinking more about it, it'd just end up being Blackwall all over again with different dressing and context.
Also, think of all the delicious lore we could get out of an ancient Avvar! With the occasional disappointment due to his/her possible loner status. And the angst! "I can't bear the thought of outliving the one(s) I love," etc!
Yes! Ooh, what if we had a mage love interest, and we go through most of the game thinking everything's hunky dory, but then! Right at the end, he/she was possessed by a demon all along! And it was the demon who fell in love with you! Played seriously, I could actually see some potential in that! It'd also add a lot of new, if weird, perspective. But thinking more about it, it'd just end up being Blackwall all over again with different dressing and context.
For the purposes of this thread, we'll go with a she. I would love having this role for a female character, to be honest. It's a little weird, but it's creative. Ooh, this would be the perfect chance to bring back Desire Demons. The reason why I think they aren't in the game is that Desire Demons aren't known for being confrontational. They prefer to quietly manulipate people and fight only when they have to. They probably took a look at the Rifts and decided to stay far away. I really believe that's the reason why Desire Demons aren't around in DA:I, not due to some "agenda" The next game could introduce more subtle intrigue versus a straight Champion of the World story, and that would be the perfect time to bring those demons back.
Unfortunately, your idea about a demon falling in love with the PC might not fly so well. The idea of the PC being too much of a "special snowflake" comes up often, and a demon falling in love with the PC might cross too much into that with some people.
However, the introduction of Cole into the series shows that there could be room for some grey with this spirit/demon. A particularly memorable codex entry for me was someone talking about how a spirit of Love got corrupted by their desire for that spirit. I remember it, because it would pop up as a loading screen codex quite a bit.
Redeeming a spirit wouldn't be out of the question. How it ties into your werewolf idea, I'm not sure. Maybe a spirit of Love that became divided and corrupted, turning a person's desire for acceptance and belonging into something monstrous? While the other part seeks redemption? I don't want it to be too much of a clone of Nature of the Beast, but I think it's a concept worth revisiting. Any lack of creativity regarding this is on me. I'm just tossing out some ideas.
This is the most fun, "Can straight men get more options" thread I've been in a very long time.
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