64 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilithor]

Bioware really need to step back, stop a bit, and try to think outside their box. Think something new...

 

No more Tolkien, Martin, Wheel of Time, NWN, BG and other stuff. When they talk about freedom is always the same talking, When they talk about power it is always the same. Greed, politics, sex... and on and on... Things change a bit because bioware is always trying to keep up with the newest social justice trend but overall the structure is the same. But they should seriously rethink everything about how they make games to stop going over the same things over and over again.

Their stories and characters are boring me to death now. Seriously, I can't for the life of me see the difference between Tomi Undergallows and Zevran Aranai. I used to say Bioware is good at creating characters but it is not true, they just keep on writting the same things over and over again. How many Iron Bulls we have until inquisition? How many Seras? Seriously Bioware? More Paladins with Faith Crisis? Whats next? A berserker Dwarf?

 

They really need to try something new for their next game. No more easy going sex positive rogues. No more berserker fighters who love battle. No more naive paladins. No more unintendedly succesful rogues. No more gathering armies. No more huge scale adventures that need the whole world to worry about.

But of course this post is 100% useless. If they don't go stupid again people won't buy the game. See what happened with DA2? Their less clichéd game? FAIL. Of course there was the technical problems but also not enough Tolkien.

Oh and please burn down the genealogical tree of the boring keep stuff:
NWN2 -> Awakening -> Inquisition

On a side note, NWN2 (Obsidian) made 3 Dragon Age games:
1 - The blight, aka DAO.

2 - City stuff, aka Kirkwall, aka DA2.

3 - Keep, aka Inquisition.

(also Awakening is heavily NWN2 OC based)

How Bioware managed to make the 5/10 NWN2 OC become 3 games is a feat of stupidity, lack of creativity and mental disability

But if this progression keeps on going and DA4 is based on Mask of the Betrayer then, by all means, ignore everything I said and keep on copying.

[BronzTrooper]

But of course this post is 100% useless. If they don't go stupid again people won't buy the game. See what happened with DA2? Their less clichéd game? FAIL. Of course there was the technical problems but also not enough Tolkien.

 

You do realize DA2 had the shortest production time out of all 3 DA games, right?

 

Seriously, if DA2 had been given the same amount of time as DA:O and DA:I (damn it, EA), it would've been much better received.  On its own, it's a decent game and fairly fun to play.  But as a sequel to DA:O, it was kind of a let-down.

 

I wouldn't mind if they tried a similar concept as DA2 for DA4 as long as they got the time they needed to work on it.  Mostly because it feels like the more areas we get to explore, the smaller Thedas as a whole feels.  I mean, who takes a 3+ day journey to Val Royeaux just for lunch?  Boggles the mind......

[Panda]

Eh, personally I think DAI's characters are quite fresh. I haven't met character like Sera before. Not one like Cassandra either. They all have traits that they share with some other characters, but also some that those doesn't share. Intresting trait compinations that makes them well-fleshed characters. I think characters really are one of strong points of DAI.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But of course this post is 100% useless. If they don't go stupid again people won't buy the game. See what happened with DA2? Their less clichéd game? FAIL. Of course there was the technical problems but also not enough Tolkien.

Had DA2 been better executed, I think it would have done really well. It had BioWare's best plot structure in some time.

Personally, I couldn't stand the game, but the plot wasn't why.

[OriginalTibs]

Bioware really need to step back, stop a bit, and try to think outside their box. Think something new...

 

No more Tolkien, Martin, Wheel of Time, NWN, BG and other stuff. When they talk about freedom is always the same talking, When they talk about power it is always the same. Greed, politics, sex... and on and on... Things change a bit because bioware is always trying to keep up with the newest social justice trend but overall the structure is the same. But they should seriously rethink everything about how they make games to stop going over the same things over and over again.

Their stories and characters are boring me to death now. Seriously, I can't for the life of me see the difference between Tomi Undergallows and Zevran Aranai. I used to say Bioware is good at creating characters but it is not true, they just keep on writting the same things over and over again. How many Iron Bulls we have until inquisition? How many Seras? Seriously Bioware? More Paladins with Faith Crisis? Whats next? A berserker Dwarf?

 

They really need to try something new for their next game. No more easy going sex positive rogues. No more berserker fighters who love battle. No more naive paladins. No more unintendedly succesful rogues. No more gathering armies. No more huge scale adventures that need the whole world to worry about.

But of course this post is 100% useless. If they don't go stupid again people won't buy the game. See what happened with DA2? Their less clichéd game? FAIL. Of course there was the technical problems but also not enough Tolkien.

Oh and please burn down the genealogical tree of the boring keep stuff:
NWN2 -> Awakening -> Inquisition

On a side note, NWN2 (Obsidian) made 3 Dragon Age games:
1 - The blight, aka DAO.

2 - City stuff, aka Kirkwall, aka DA2.

3 - Keep, aka Inquisition.

(also Awakening is heavily NWN2 OC based)

How Bioware managed to make the 5/10 NWN2 OC become 3 games is a feat of stupidity, lack of creativity and mental disability

But if this progression keeps on going and DA4 is based on Mask of the Betrayer then, by all means, ignore everything I said and keep on copying.

May I be honest? Sorry if I seem the troll here.

 

It seems singularly useless advice to counsel Bioware to leave out the boring stuff. Boredom is a symptom of the individual and thus unpredictable. It doesn't inhabit any element of a work of art. Boredom is wholly the product of subjectivity. A work of art can be poorly wrought, but the boredom is in the eye of the beholder.

 

So, aside from your personal symptoms, you recommend that Bioware should break new ground, and that doing what has worked in the past is 'stupid'. The problem with your recommendation is that if they go all avante-garde very few if any will understand and appreciate it, unless they designed it themselves and know all the secrets to begin with.

 

Avante-garde artistry seldom produces an appreciable return in the artist's lifetime. The exceptions, granted, are remarkable but they are rare.

 

So my recommendation is to let the artist craft the art, and the rest of us who play will play. The self-anointed amateur critics who feel some strange need to diss the product of others can go do better themselves and let the market sort true from false.

[mjb203]

I'll agree they could use some fresh types of characters.  I'd like to see a rogue who isn't crazy and/or a jokester.  And a paladin-type character who isn't a complete pushover and who will call people out on their b.s.  The typical character tropes can be fun, but they lose their luster when they're just rehashed.  Cassandra was a nice change of pace, though.  As was Sten in DA:O.

[KaiserShep]

Both Nathaniel and Sebastian are rogues that aren't crazy or jokesters. Varric makes jokes, but he's generally just mild and good natured, much like Alistair but without the whining. I thought we got a fair variety of characters across each class so far.

[mjb203]

Both Nathaniel and Sebastian are rogues that aren't crazy or jokesters. Varric makes jokes, but he's generally just mild and good natured, much like Alistair but without the whining. I thought we got a fair variety of characters across each class so far.

True, but Nathaniel was an expansion character and Sebastian was DLC (and yes, I realize this is a nitpick).  If I'm remembering correctly, though, the only reason they made Sebastian a rogue is because of the weapon restrictions for classes in DA2.  They were both fresh takes on a rogue, however.  Varric was most certainly a jokester in DA2.  He was better in DAI though. 

 

But, let's take a look at berserk warriors in Bioware games.  We've got Oghren, Iron Bull, Grunt, Korgan, Minsc, Shar Teel.  We can probably even throw Wrex in there, but at least he had a bit more depth.  Jokester rogues include Imoen, Alora, DA2 Varric, DA:O Leliana, Jan Jansen, Sera.  For slutty rogues we've got Isabela, Zevran, Safana, Haer'Dalis, Coran, and again Sera.  Naive paladin-types we've got Alistair, Ajantis, and Keldorn (but at least Alistair had the humor going for him to break the trope a bit).  Mazzy at least wasn't a naive paladin-type, so she was a break as well. 

 

Anyway, the main point is that Bioware plays certain character tropes way too much.  Yeah, they change some small things between characters, which is great, but they don't hide the overall trope.  It would be nice to see a few more noble-type rogues, a few more paladin warrior types who don't put up with b.s., and more warrior types who aren't the mindless berserker.  Heck, in the DA setting, they could even cross some of these tropes without breaking their lore.  Maybe make a slutty paladin-type warrior, or a naive rogue, or a berserk mage.  Change things up a bit.

[BronzTrooper]

But, let's take a look at berserk warriors in Bioware games.  We've got Oghren, Iron Bull, Grunt, Korgan, Minsc, Shar Teel.  We can probably even throw Wrex in there, but at least he had a bit more depth.  Jokester rogues include Imoen, Alora, DA2 Varric, DA:O Leliana, Jan Jansen, Sera.  For slutty rogues we've got Isabela, Zevran, Safana, Haer'Dalis, Coran, and again Sera.  Naive paladin-types we've got Alistair, Ajantis, and Keldorn (but at least Alistair had the humor going for him to break the trope a bit).  Mazzy at least wasn't a naive paladin-type, so she was a break as well. 

 

Actually, IB wouldn't exactly be a good example of a berserker.  Just because he likes to fight doesn't mean that he's a berserker.  Fenris would be a better for that trope.  Plus, I don't think Grunt and Wrex count since they're sci-fi characters, not fantasy.

 

Also, Leliana's not much of a jokester.  Zevran would fit better for that while still fitting for the slutty trope too.  And Sera as a slutty rogue?  Really?  I can see the jokester bit, but not so much the slutty part.

 

And I don't think Alistair's naive.  Inexperienced, yeah, but not naive.

 

I do like seeing characters like Merrill, Cole, Cassandra, Awakening Anders, etc., though.  Would like to see more characters like them in the future.  

[mjb203]

Actually, IB wouldn't exactly be a good example of a berserker.  Just because he likes to fight doesn't mean that he's a berserker.  Fenris would be a better for that trope.  Plus, I don't think Grunt and Wrex count since they're sci-fi characters, not fantasy.

 

Also, Leliana's not much of a jokester.  Zevran would fit better for that while still fitting for the slutty trope too.  And Sera as a slutty rogue?  Really?  I can see the jokester bit, but not so much the slutty part.

 

And I don't think Alistair's naive.  Inexperienced, yeah, but not naive.

 

I do like seeing characters like Merrill, Cole, Cassandra, Awakening Anders, etc., though.  Would like to see more characters like them in the future.  

I was more referring to her DA:O type, and the way she'd tease Sten, but yeah, it is probably a bit of a stretch to put her there.  And have you gone through DAI with a femQunari and recruited Sera?  She's... suggestive to say the least.  But, she does more fit into the jokester than the slutty.  I included the ME characters because they are Bioware characters and one part of the topic was how their characters are all becoming horribly similar.  Iron Bull also fits the berserker trope all too well.  Do you remember his stories?  How he loves to hit things?  The scene with him at Herald's Rest after defeating a dragon?  Yeah, he likes to lie too, so Bioware kept the same trope, but just added a bit extra.  I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, but it does get old quick, which is why I gave a few examples of how they could switch things up a bit.  Not everyone may agree with those examples, but it doesn't hurt to throw stuff out to get the creative juices flowing for Bioware.

 

Cole was a very welcome change of pace though!  A naive spirit/demon rogue character was a refresher. 

[Steelcan]

DA needs more Tolkien

[AresKeith]

Between you and "Not-Brevanu".....

[KaiserShep]

Between you and "Not-Brevanu".....

 

It's possible that they're all Brevanu. Like, a kind of internet cult, or the Jokers gang from Batman Beyond.

[AresKeith]

It's possible that they're all Brevanu. Like, a kind of internet cult, or the Jokers gang from Batman Beyond.

 

Nah, OP is that other poster who got banned. I forgot the name tho

[M_Helder]

Innovation is a risk, a big studio like EA cannot afford to take.
So, they follow an extensive market research to uncover what sells the best, then put everything they found into a bowl, mix it together and we get this 'Inquisition' thingy.

 

- But that's what you all wanted, right?

The execs will wonder.
And we will just sit here, waiting for the Witcher 3, another Fallout/ES instalment or KOTOR 3 (riding on the high wave of Star Wars rebirth, I'm still hopeful, yes).

 

That's why all the juicy games and actual innovations come from smaller developers. Only once those innovations are proven to sell well, will they be implemented (sometimes even improved) by the big guys. It's just the way it is.

Apparently, that's why in the old days, Bioware was known as a company that is willing to push the boundaries in RPG genre. 

Hence the magnificent Mass Effect.

[Kantr]

You do realize DA2 had the shortest production time out of all 3 DA games, right?

 

Seriously, if DA2 had been given the same amount of time as DA:O and DA:I (damn it, EA), it would've been much better received.  On its own, it's a decent game and fairly fun to play.  But as a sequel to DA:O, it was kind of a let-down.

 

I wouldn't mind if they tried a similar concept as DA2 for DA4 as long as they got the time they needed to work on it.  Mostly because it feels like the more areas we get to explore, the smaller Thedas as a whole feels.  I mean, who takes a 3+ day journey to Val Royeaux just for lunch?  Boggles the mind......

DA:O had a long development time (about 6 years) .But I do agree,

[b10d1v]

You do realize DA2 had the shortest production time out of all 3 DA games, right?

 

Seriously, if DA2 had been given the same amount of time as DA:O and DA:I (damn it, EA), it would've been much better received.  On its own, it's a decent game and fairly fun to play.  But as a sequel to DA:O, it was kind of a let-down.

 

I wouldn't mind if they tried a similar concept as DA2 for DA4 as long as they got the time they needed to work on it.  Mostly because it feels like the more areas we get to explore, the smaller Thedas as a whole feels.  I mean, who takes a 3+ day journey to Val Royeaux just for lunch?  Boggles the mind......

More to the point, more attention on DA2 would likely have led to a more complete DA3, that's not to say program management would not have failed, but that more story elements would be more evolved.

[Dubya75]

I believe one of the big reasons Bioware content has become so incredibly stale is because they are afraid of controversy.

 

We already saw this when they talked about Hawke and what he was supposed to be like, originally: A much more edgy character, howling at the moon and tasting his own blood.

In DAI, no more blood magic. And everyone is nice to each other. How incredibly dull.

 

I'm not sure if it is EA that neutered Bioware, but neutered they are, with an empty scrotum fluttering in the wind. Politically correct. Diplomatic. Inclusive. All the things you do NOT want to mix into a fantasy game franchise. 

 

We already have all these things in our real life society. We play games to ESCAPE real life, but apparently Bioware wants to give us MORE of real life in the games we play.

 

What's to be expected in DA4? No more magic? Marriage? Raising an army of farm animals?

 

No thanks!

[bondari reloads.]

May I be honest? Sorry if I seem the troll here.

 

It seems singularly useless advice to counsel Bioware to leave out the boring stuff. Boredom is a symptom of the individual and thus unpredictable. It doesn't inhabit any element of a work of art. Boredom is wholly the product of subjectivity. A work of art can be poorly wrought, but the boredom is in the eye of the beholder.

 

So, aside from your personal symptoms, you recommend that Bioware should break new ground, and that doing what has worked in the past is 'stupid'. The problem with your recommendation is that if they go all avante-garde very few if any will understand and appreciate it, unless they designed it themselves and know all the secrets to begin with.

 

Avante-garde artistry seldom produces an appreciable return in the artist's lifetime. The exceptions, granted, are remarkable but they are rare.

 

So my recommendation is to let the artist craft the art, and the rest of us who play will play. The self-anointed amateur critics who feel some strange need to diss the product of others can go do better themselves and let the market sort true from false.

 

Thanks for the trolling, much appreciated. (This.)

[Kantr]

I believe one of the big reasons Bioware content has become so incredibly stale is because they are afraid of controversy.

 

We already saw this when they talked about Hawke and what he was supposed to be like, originally: A much more edgy character, howling at the moon and tasting his own blood.

In DAI, no more blood magic. And everyone is nice to each other. How incredibly dull.

 

I'm not sure if it is EA that neutered Bioware, but neutered they are, with an empty scrotum fluttering in the wind. Politically correct. Diplomatic. Inclusive. All the things you do NOT want to mix into a fantasy game franchise. 

 

We already have all these things in our real life society. We play games to ESCAPE real life, but apparently Bioware wants to give us MORE of real life in the games we play.

 

What's to be expected in DA4? No more magic? Marriage? Raising an army of farm animals?

 

No thanks!

Howling for the moon in DA:I or DA2?

[Lilithor]

[KaiserShep]

We already have all these things in our real life society. We play games to ESCAPE real life, but apparently Bioware wants to give us MORE of real life in the games we play.

 

Wait just an elfroot-pickin' minute, now these are things that we can only get away from in entertainment?

 

Maker, how long have I been asleep?

[Il Divo]

I believe one of the big reasons Bioware content has become so incredibly stale is because they are afraid of controversy.

 

We already saw this when they talked about Hawke and what he was supposed to be like, originally: A much more edgy character, howling at the moon and tasting his own blood.

In DAI, no more blood magic. And everyone is nice to each other. How incredibly dull.

 

I'm not sure if it is EA that neutered Bioware, but neutered they are, with an empty scrotum fluttering in the wind. Politically correct. Diplomatic. Inclusive. All the things you do NOT want to mix into a fantasy game franchise. 

 

We already have all these things in our real life society. We play games to ESCAPE real life, but apparently Bioware wants to give us MORE of real life in the games we play.

 

What's to be expected in DA4? No more magic? Marriage? Raising an army of farm animals?

 

No thanks!

 

It's good to know that you have decided why we all play video games for us. This sounds notoriously like the happy ending committees who decided that the only reason to engage in gaming is to escape from dark depressing real life.

[Kantr]

It's good to know that you have decided why we all play video games for us. This sounds notoriously like the happy ending committees who decided that the only reason to engage in gaming is to escape from dark depressing real life.

Note how he doesnt back his claims up with evidence

[Octarin]

I would probably think of a way to troll this, but I just think some people have way too much free time on their hands. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

Personally, I am following a sort of Maslow's Pyramid For Gaming here. So in the DA:I Hierarchy of Needs, at the moment we are still pretty low at the base of the pyramid, and unless those basics are fulfilled, we can't seriously move to the higher function concerns like artistic visions and philosophies. In other words, when there are game-breaking issues across the board, customers complaining right left and center about playability and fixes, major concerns for some of the platforms, well.... sorry to be a psychologist, but, when you've got hunger pangs you don't go looking for the meaning of stratospheric trajectories. Just saying. Anyway.