141 réponses à ce sujet

[Shannara13]

I mean I see all these people complaining about how it isn't and rpg but they never seem to say how it isn't an RPG. Its got the same dialog options and plot choices that any other bioware game has as far as I can tell.

[Gill Kaiser]

They aren't saying that it's not an RPG, they're hyperbolising over the fact that some of the elements considered RPGish were streamlined from the first game, or altered. To wit, there are less skills (but the skills there are have more effect with each skill level you take, and each skill can be specialised once maxed), and aiming now uses the player skill rather than the character's skill to denote accuracy. However, besides that I think people aren't noticing that Bioware have added just as much as they removed - for example, the ability to customise your Shepard's armour and the splitting of the armour into seperate interchangable pieces is very RPGish. Therefore, in summation, don't listen to them because they're whiners. The core of the game is unchanged.

[Matt VT Schlo]

The Squad menu options have been 'toned down' - where you enter your points. Frankly, thats the only thing I can see that does annoy me too - i loved the complexity of the first game's menu. When I saw if for the first time, I was like 'HOLY COW' and in this one I am ' really, that's the menu?'

Best line in Gameinformer review, ' The loss of RPG elements may hit some people hard'

Modifié par Matt VT Schlo, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:27 .

[Chained_Creator]

Anal-retentive complexity > manageable simplicity, or something equally inane.

[Shannara13]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

The Squad options have been 'toned down' frankly, the only thing I can see that does annoy me too - i loved the complexity of the first. When I saw if for the first time, I was like 'HOLY COW' and in this one I am ' really?'

Best line in Gameinformer review, ' The loss of RPG elements may hit some people hard'

Could you please explain what you mean because I honestly have no idea.

How is each ability having 6 levels with a branching path at lvl 4 less complex than each abiltiy having 12 levels with no branching path and with each level not really giving you a noticable increase in power?

[Wolverfrog]

It is an RPG really, it's just a hybrid between RPG and TPS. The people complaining about it are obviously those who've never really played a shooter before, and so dislike Mass Effect 2's system.



Most 360 gamers though have played shooters (Halo, CoD, Gears, etc), as well as a few PC gamers.



Basically, if you've played a shooter before and you enjoyed it, then you'll enjoy Mass Effect 2.

[Shannara13]

Wolverfrog wrote...

It is an RPG really, it's just a hybrid between RPG and TPS. The people complaining about it are obviously those who've never really played a shooter before, and so dislike Mass Effect 2's system.

Most 360 gamers though have played shooters (Halo, CoD, Gears, etc), as well as a few PC gamers.

Basically, if you've played a shooter before and you enjoyed it, then you'll enjoy Mass Effect 2.

But how is ME2 that much more of a shooter than ME1?

[Gill Kaiser]

As I said, the weapon skill requirements were removed and replaced with weapon proficiencies. Now the weapons you can use is restricted by your class (with the option of adding a bonus proficiency, I think), but when you shoot with any weapon the accuracy is decided by your own aim and the accuracy of the weapon, like a shooter. The system of ME1 where the size of the circular crosshair was decided by your weapon skills was removed. That's the most obvious shootery difference, I think.

There's also regenerative health, which gives the game a bit more of a shooter feel, I guess.

These differences are all in the combat, though, and the non-combat parts of the game are the same or enhanced over ME1, apparently.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:38 .

[Icarus II]

I cannot imagine a less consequential debate.

[Shannara13]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

As I said, the weapon skill requirements were removed and replaced with weapon proficiencies. Now the weapons you can use is restricted by your class (with the option of adding a bonus proficiency, I think), but when you shoot with any weapon the accuracy is decided by your own aim and the accuracy of the weapon, like a shooter. The system of ME1 where the size of the circular crosshair was decided by your weapon skills was removed. That's the most obvious shootery difference, I think.

There's also regenerative health, which gives the game a bit more of a shooter feel, I guess.

These differences are all in the combat, though, and the non-combat parts of the game are the same or enhanced over ME1, apparently.

I guess I don't notice that much of a difference beacause I always turned off the Assisted Aim.

[jroseboom]

its like fallout all over again... not to say fallout 3 wasn't a good game.. but wow.

this is kinda depressing i liked how ME1 was much more rpg than shooter. god damned mainstream.

[Surberus]

I dont like shooters, but I like RPG's. I'm leaning towards the love column with ME2 because the twitch aspect of most shooters is null and void. It's far more tactical, and yet the combat is wonderfully fluid.



Where did it lose it's rpg'ness - lack of skills. This is most noticeable in the radial menu, and perhaps it fleshes out in higher lvls (I'm only lvl 10) but right now it feels cheap and shabby.

[Shannara13]

jroseboom wrote...

its like fallout all over again... not to say fallout 3 wasn't a good game.. but wow.
this is kinda depressing i liked how ME1 was much more rpg than shooter. god damned mainstream.

Explain plz. Is it so much to ask that a single person on this board elaborate on why it isn't as much of an rpg as the first?

Modifié par Shannara13, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:42 .

[Shannara13]

Surberus wrote...

I dont like shooters, but I like RPG's. I'm leaning towards the love column with ME2 because the twitch aspect of most shooters is null and void. It's far more tactical, and yet the combat is wonderfully fluid.

Where did it lose it's rpg'ness - lack of skills. This is most noticeable in the radial menu, and perhaps it fleshes out in higher lvls (I'm only lvl 10) but right now it feels cheap and shabby.

Maybe its because I am an adept but I honestly have more skills to use than in ME1.

[Wolverfrog]

Shannara13 wrote...

Wolverfrog wrote...

It is an RPG really, it's just a hybrid between RPG and TPS. The people complaining about it are obviously those who've never really played a shooter before, and so dislike Mass Effect 2's system.

Most 360 gamers though have played shooters (Halo, CoD, Gears, etc), as well as a few PC gamers.

Basically, if you've played a shooter before and you enjoyed it, then you'll enjoy Mass Effect 2.

But how is ME2 that much more of a shooter than ME1?

Reloading, more fluid combat system, little FPS drop, more weapon variation, a good cover system, regenerating health, etc.

[Aeranduil]

Bioware themselves have openly said it's more of a shooter than Mass Effect 1. That doens't mean it's not an RPG, it just means they've blurred the border between the two genres a bit more, it's more streamlined. It works better.

[Shannara13]

Wolverfrog wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

Wolverfrog wrote...

It is an RPG really, it's just a hybrid between RPG and TPS. The people complaining about it are obviously those who've never really played a shooter before, and so dislike Mass Effect 2's system.

Most 360 gamers though have played shooters (Halo, CoD, Gears, etc), as well as a few PC gamers.

Basically, if you've played a shooter before and you enjoyed it, then you'll enjoy Mass Effect 2.

But how is ME2 that much more of a shooter than ME1?

Reloading, more fluid combat system, little FPS drop, more weapon variation, a good cover system, regenerating health, etc.

So you are saying making the shooting aspect of it better makes it more of a shooter. I thought it just made the shooting aspect better. I mean a crappy shooter and a good shooter are still just the same amount of shooter to me.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

There's also regenerative health, which gives the game a bit more of a shooter feel, I guess.

Whilst your other comments are balanced and well structured, you do have to remember there was a mod that could be added to your armor in the first game which regenerated health

[Matt VT Schlo]

Shannara13 wrote...

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

The Squad options have been 'toned down' frankly, the only thing I can see that does annoy me too - i loved the complexity of the first. When I saw if for the first time, I was like 'HOLY COW' and in this one I am ' really?'

Best line in Gameinformer review, ' The loss of RPG elements may hit some people hard'

Could you please explain what you mean because I honestly have no idea.

How is each ability having 6 levels with a branching path at lvl 4 less complex than each abiltiy having 12 levels with no branching path and with each level not really giving you a noticable increase in power?

Really, i think its the lack of a complex menu system that is hitting the RPG fans' hard right now.

[Shannara13]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

The Squad options have been 'toned down' frankly, the only thing I can see that does annoy me too - i loved the complexity of the first. When I saw if for the first time, I was like 'HOLY COW' and in this one I am ' really?'

Best line in Gameinformer review, ' The loss of RPG elements may hit some people hard'

Could you please explain what you mean because I honestly have no idea.

How is each ability having 6 levels with a branching path at lvl 4 less complex than each abiltiy having 12 levels with no branching path and with each level not really giving you a noticable increase in power?

Really, i think its the lack of a complex menu system that is hitting the RPG fans' hard right now.

So you are saying all people care about are numbers. 12 is better than 6 even if the difference between the 12 is insignificant compared to the difference between the 6. It just matters that 12 is a bigger number.

[Nesiquoa]

Some people like to attribute RPG entirely to stats and inventories.

[AlanC9]

Shannara13 wrote...
So you are saying all people care about are numbers. 12 is better than 6 even if the difference between the 12 is insignificant compared to the difference between the 6. It just matters that 12 is a bigger number.

That's probably it. We used to see arguments like that all the time with NWN and NWN2 -- since the system only went up to level 20 it wasn't as good as a system that goes up to level 99, or whatever Diablo did.

[vyvexthorne]

Nesiquoa wrote...

Some people like to attribute RPG entirely to stats and inventories.

^this

I think the major problems is the terminology.. RPG stands for role play.. to take on a role and play a character..basically every video game is a role playing game .. in a sports game you take on the role of a team, in a shooter you take on the role of the hero.. etc, etc,.  But because of video games RPG seems to translate into Character Leveling System.  They should really just call games of Mass Effect nature..  Story Driven Games..  SDG's  to cut out the confusion.

[Shannara13]

vyvexthorne wrote...

Nesiquoa wrote...

Some people like to attribute RPG entirely to stats and inventories.

^this

I think the major problems is the terminology.. RPG stands for role play.. to take on a role and play a character..basically every video game is a role playing game .. in a sports game you take on the role of a team, in a shooter you take on the role of the hero.. etc, etc,.  But because of video games RPG seems to translate into Character Leveling System.  They should really just call games of Mass Effect nature..  Story Driven Games..  SDG's  to cut out the confusion.

But Mass Effect still has a Character Leveling System.

< Is confused.

[Gill Kaiser]

I agree with you Shannara.

Anyway, so long as the core gameplay outside of combat is the same, they could do what they liked with the combat and it wouldn't bother me. That they've simply made the shooter part more shootery is just a plus, IMO. It's better to play a good shooter than a bad shooter, which is what the first Mass Effect's combat was.