521 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Well you just said that you would rather people sit in slavery then fight for their freedom. Ergo you are pro-slavery.

Despite the circle being labeled by word of God as not being slavery?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well you just said that you would rather people sit in slavery then fight for their freedom. Ergo you are pro-slavery.

Except the Circles aren't slavery. 

[Lumix19]

Despite the circle being labeled by word of God as not being slavery?

It may not be literal slavery (I.e. people as property) but it has similarities that raise eyebrows.

[thetinyevil]

Except the Circles aren't slavery. 

It is stated by several people even Cullen that the Chantry owns mages. They can do whatever they hell they want to them. Rape, kill them, send them half way across the world. Not to mention they control every other aspect of their lives. Including if they can get married and what happens to their children.

[Master Warder Z_]

It may not be literal slavery (I.e. people as property) but it has similarities that raise eyebrows.

No more then any other internment or quarantine.

[X Equestris]

Honestly, I think it's more that he was trying to make a statement.  He definitely went the wrong way about it, but I don't think he was specifically targeting Elthina (assuming that's who you meant by 'his target').
 
What would be the point anyway?  Meredith was the focus of his ire within Kirkwall, and if he was trying to target a high-ranking member of the Chantry, he could've went after the Divine (which I honestly wouldn't put past him).

My point with that is that he alienates a lot of people who might have been willing to harbor a little sympathy for his cause. Hundreds are dead, most of whom aren't even part of the Chantry or the Templars. Considering how small a minority the mages are, that's a very, very bad plan. You can't win a revolution without popular support, and committing actions that could easily be labeled terroristic won't win you any favor. So it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

[thetinyevil]

Despite the circle being labeled by word of God as not being slavery?

Also I asked you if a SLAVE IN TEVINTER did what Anders did. If s/he started a war. A slave rebellion. Would you call them a terrorist or would you call them a hero. Answer this question. If a Tevinter Slave started a slave rebellion by doing what Anders did would you condemn them too?

[BronzTrooper]

I think categorizing Cole as complex and Justice as not is a disservice. All spirits are complex, Cole's situation is unique but there's nothing inherently special about Cole himself.

 

tbh, I meant his situation for the most part.  No one is really sure what he is (not even himself), yet we have a fairly clear indication of what Justice is in Awakening, and then we're given the gist of what happened with him and Anders between then and DA2.

[Master Warder Z_]

Also I asked you if a SLAVE IN TEVINTER did what Anders did. If s/he started a war. A slave rebellion. Would you call them a terrorist or would you call them a hero. Answer this question. If a Tevinter Slave started a slave rebellion by doing what Anders did would you condemn them too?

Terrorism targeting the innocent remains the same regardless of nation.

So yes.

I would.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It is stated by several people even Cullen that the Chantry owns mages. They can do whatever they hell they want to them. Rape, kill them, send them half way across the world. Not to mention they control every other aspect of their lives. Including if they can get married and what happens to their children.

No, they can't. Alrik had to work in the shadows for his sick fantasies. There is even a note warning the Templars with him that they better not tell Meredith what he is doing. 

 

Plus as Warder pointed out, Bioware flat out stated the Circles aren't slavery via WoG. And they back this up in DAI when they show that Kirkwall was the exception, not the norm. The closest real world parallel we have for the Circles is a quarantine camp. Which makes sense since magic is dangerous and mages do need to learn to control it. Even super Pro-Mages like Fiona thought that. 

 

 

Also I asked you if a SLAVE IN TEVINTER did what Anders did. If s/he started a war. A slave rebellion. Would you call them a terrorist or would you call them a hero. Answer this question. If a Tevinter Slave started a slave rebellion by doing what Anders did would you condemn them too?

Yes. The slave used terrorist tactics, thus is a terrorist. 

[thetinyevil]

No, they can't. Alrik had to work in the shadows for his sick fantasies. There is even a note warning the Templars with him that they better not tell Meredith what he is doing. 

 

Plus as Warder pointed out, Bioware flat out stated the Circles aren't slavery via WoG. And they back this up in DAI when they show that Kirkwall was the exception, not the norm. The closest real world parallel we have for the Circles is a quarantine camp. Which makes sense since magic is dangerous and mages do need to learn to control it. Even super Pro-Mages like Fiona thought that. 

 

 

Yes. The slave used terrorist tactics, thus is a terrorist. 

Well Meredith was the single more incompetent Knight-Commander in the history of the Circles. 

 

I don't care what WoG says. I see the Circles as slavery. Since they can do what ever they want to mages with little to no repercussion.

 

So the slaves should stay slaves and not fight back anyway they can. Got.

[thetinyevil]

Terrorism targeting the innocent remains the same regardless of nation.

So yes.

I would.

So slavery is good. They can't fight back got. Because no matter what happens in a rebellion of any kind innocent are going to die. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Honestly, I think it's more that he was trying to make a statement.  He definitely went the wrong way about it, but I don't think he was specifically targeting Elthina (assuming that's who you meant by 'his target').

 

What would be the point anyway?  Meredith was the focus of his ire within Kirkwall, and if he was trying to target a high-ranking member of the Chantry, he could've went after the Divine (which I honestly wouldn't put past him).

Actually, Elthina was his main target in his attack. She was the one arguing for compromise between the Mages and Templars in Kirkwall, and as he saw it there was no room for compromise anymore. He knew that Meredith would react by annuling the Circle, thus showing mages and the world how bad the Templars are. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

It is stated by several people even Cullen that the Chantry owns mages. They can do whatever they hell they want to them. Rape, kill them, send them half way across the world. Not to mention they control every other aspect of their lives. Including if they can get married and what happens to their children.

lol no they can't kill them or rape them at least legally but same can be said about guards ,police and soldiers and is matter of corruption rather something allowed.Only instances where mages can be killed are when they break law or fail harrowing.

 

Also no templars and chantry don't control every other aspect of their lives ,pretty much by simple fact that mages have enough freedom to learn blood magic says against it , not mention they are allowed have own opinion and create fraternities.Mages can get married so don't even start on that and children are taken away for safety reasons.

 

So pretty much pro-mage propaganda at its finest. 

[X Equestris]

Rehabilitate him? Help them find true justice again? I know what they've become but I remember what they were as well. His death at this point seems either out of hatred and revenge for most people or a matter of expedience for others.

Good luck with that. On the max rivalry path, you can try to convince Anders to undo what he did in the Chantry. He tries to, and Justice stops him. Even if you went through the immense effort to separate the two, which I doubt is worth it and may not even be possible considering the unique circumstances, you would still be left with Vengeance.

Some people are simply too broken to be rehabilitated, and their crimes too vast.

[BronzTrooper]

My point with that is that he alienates a lot of people who might have been willing to harbor a little sympathy for his cause. Hundreds are dead, most of whom aren't even part of the Chantry or the Templars. Considering how small a minority the mages are, that's a very, very bad plan. You can't win a revolution without popular support, and committing actions that could easily be labeled terroristic won't win you any favor. So it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I agree, but what my question was pointed at was what would be the point of targeting Elthina specifically?  As I said, there's no real point in Anders targeting her since the main focus of his ire was Meredith, and if he was going for killing a high-ranking member of the Chantry, he could've gone after the Divine.

[AresKeith]

Well Meredith was the single more incompetent Knight-Commander in the history of the Circles. 

 

I don't care what WoG says. I see the Circles as slavery. Since they can do what ever they want to mages with little to no repercussion.

 

So the slaves should stay slaves and not fight back anyway they can. Got.

 

What you see doesn't mean that's what it is

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Well Meredith was the single more incompetent Knight-Commander in the history of the Circles. 
 
I don't care what WoG says. I see the Circles as slavery. Since they can do what ever they want to mages with little to no repercussion.
 
So the slaves should stay slaves and not fight back anyway they can. Got.

The circles ain't slavery, & that's not gonna change just cos your personal headcanon declares it as such, especially when BW themselves say so

[thetinyevil]

I have a question for Master Z. Do you consider Empress Celene a terrorist? She did purge the Hamshral alienage. And she only did it because of a play.

[X Equestris]

I agree, but what my question was pointed at was what would be the point of targeting Elthina specifically? As I said, there's no real point in Anders targeting her since the main focus of his ire was Meredith, and if he was going for killing a high-ranking member of the Chantry, he could've gone after the Divine.

Elthina is the only one who is holding back the increasingly mad Meredith. With her out of the way, Meredith is the highest ranking Chantry official in Kirkwall, and could declare the Right of Annulment. Which is exactly what Anders wants: to create an atrocity that will spark an open revolt by the Circles. So he essentially throws the Kirkwall mages under the bus in the name of his ultimate goal.

[thetinyevil]

The circles ain't slavery, & that's not gonna change just cos your personal headcanon declares it as such, especially when BW themselves say so

Not my personal headcanon. It is how I see the Circles. Big differences.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well Meredith was the single more incompetent Knight-Commander in the history of the Circles. 

 

I don't care what WoG says. I see the Circles as slavery. Since they can do what ever they want to mages with little to no repercussion.

 

So the slaves should stay slaves and not fight back anyway they can. Got.

You won't hear me defend her on that. 

 

The fact you just admitted you don't care what Bioware says shows this will go nowhere. And again, Kirkwall was the exception. There were Circles that let mages out to be free if they proved they weren't a threat. Doesn't sound very slavery-like. 

 

I never said that. I said the slave used terrorist tactics thus is a terrorist, which is true. Terrorism is a type of war tactic. A morally reprehensible one, yes. But still just a style of warfare.  One that has been around for millennium. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not my personal headcanon. It is how I see the Circles. Big differences.

When how you see something goes against what that something is actually like, it is headcanon. 

[alorine]

I'd be incredibly happy to see Anders and Marian together..

His absence in Inquisition probably was my greatest dissapointment in the whole game. Besides I don't understand why they've cut Varric's dialogue where he says Hawke is with Anders and everything is alright.

My favourite character in DA I think.

[MisterJB]

If you don't care what David Gaider has to say, why play in his world?
The Circle is not slavery. End of story.