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Is this game still worth playing?


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#1
SACanuckin Oz

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Hi,

Hoping to get some input here.

 

I have read so many posts praising some aspects of NWN in the DA:I forum, that I am seriously considering giving this and NWN II a whirl.

 

I am big fan of DA:O (played all origins, and took two characters all the way through to the end of Awakenings), somewhat enjoyed DA2, but found DA:I really lacking in many story telling and gameplay aspects.

 

I also love Skyrim, and still play my character there at times.

 

Loved Dark Souls for the challenge, even when I wanted to tear my hair out (Ornstein & Smough, I'm looking at you here...), so enjoy tough tactical battles

 

Would someone like this (me) enjoy NWN & NWN 2?

 

Thanks for input.


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#2
Tchos

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NWN2 is closer to DA:O.  You can't directly control your companions in NWN1.  I myself started with DA:O, and tried both NWN games, and settled on NWN2.


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#3
Elhanan

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NWN1 is the best gaming investment I have made in this new century. Between the Official material, a five year on-line campaign, hundreds of Player created mods, and continued occasional play on a current PW, this game still has much to offer. And it is available on GOG.com.
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#4
kalbaern

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I'd say it depends on what you enjoy. The original campaigns for both NWN and NWN2 are OK IMO, and both games have lots of community created modules you might enjoy. the true value in either game is being able to share adventures with others, whether via a LAN with friends, a module you host online or joining one of the numerous PWs that are still up and running. The appeal for me has always been the later.


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#5
henesua

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The real beauty of both NWN 1 and 2 comes through in how much fun you can have modding them. NWN 1 is superior as a multiplayer game to most multiplayer RPGs you will find out there, has many very fun user created modules that you can download and play on your own or with friends, but the original campaigns that come with it are in my opinion pretty lame. NWN 2 is great for single player modules, and the Mask of the Betrayer module that came with one of the expansions is excellent. Due to the way that it handles resources I've never much cared for it as a multiplayer platform, but some do really like it for PWs anyway.

 

All that said, NWN really shines in content that you or friends can create and then play together. Nothing out there can provide that kind of experience.

 

For hard core tactical action, I don't think this is the right game. But if you like exploring RPGs and joining in with friends, I think you've found a great game.



#6
ehye_khandee

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The price is right, and it would be wrong NOT to look. Jump in, I'm sure you'll find something to amuse you.



#7
Proleric

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For NWN, I'd try some of the better fan-made campaigns. There's a classification that may help. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the official campaign, other than as a tutorial, perhaps, because the best fan-made work is superior.



#8
Baaleos

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nwscript believe it or not was good for my career.

Its a great way to get experience with C like languages, and it helped get my foot in the door with C# and a moderate amount of c++ development.

 

I will be honest, I don't actually enjoy playing 'nwn' per say.

I enjoy building / scripting / developing in nwn / toolset / visual studio.

When I do job interviews, I tend to use my NWN Development projects as example works - because they do tend to be more complex than most commercial development job/works I have done in the past.

 

If I am not mistaken - NWN Is also used in Schools in some locations to get kids into coding.

 

In short - NWN appeals to everyone for different reasons.

I love to play god, but didnt want to use the DMClient all the time, so I built an extensive God System in my PW.

Lets me do all the DMClient jobs, but with a Divine / RP feel, along with powers relating to the portfolio my religion matches.

Eg: As a Time God, I can freeze time in a 10ft bubble, Freeze individual creatures with my mind, slow or haste enemies/allies in a 20ft radius, or summon a Time Rift that tears the area apart and zaps enemies with divine bolts of energy.

 

The point is - NWN Campaign might not appeal to you, but NWN Comes with the tools to make your own enjoyable experience.


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#9
Grani

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If you don't mind some aged graphics, you should definitely give NWN a try.

Just make sure you play a good module as your first module, not to get yourself into believing that the whole game sucks just because the module you played sucked.

 

Modules I can definitely recommend (all of them are for download on the vault):

-Darkness over Daggerford

-Wyvern Crown of Cormyr

-The Prophet campaign

 

As others said, NWN1 doesn't let you control your companions directly. I, personally, like this system more, but it's different than DA:O in this matter.

 

Also, if you're unfamiliar with Dungeons & Dragons, I'd advise you to read on NWN Wiki about game mechanics, or you'll find yourself confused about the game terminology, spells, feats and equipment.



#10
Wensleydale

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Hi,

Hoping to get some input here.

 

I have read so many posts praising some aspects of NWN in the DA:I forum, that I am seriously considering giving this and NWN II a whirl.

 

I am big fan of DA:O (played all origins, and took two characters all the way through to the end of Awakenings), somewhat enjoyed DA2, but found DA:I really lacking in many story telling and gameplay aspects.

 

I also love Skyrim, and still play my character there at times.

 

Loved Dark Souls for the challenge, even when I wanted to tear my hair out (Ornstein & Smough, I'm looking at you here...), so enjoy tough tactical battles

 

Would someone like this (me) enjoy NWN & NWN 2?

 

Thanks for input.

 

The single-player campaign that comes with NWN is pretty feeble. It's tedious and derivative and it just drags on and on. If you have the strength of will to play through it once, you'll never wish to repeat the experience. It is pretty good at teaching you how the game mechanics work though, so your mileage may vary.

 

The two expansions (Shadows Of Undrentide & Hordes Of The Underdark) are a significant improvement, especially the latter, so you might want to plough straight into one of those in order to get an idea of the game's true potential.

 

NWN is ugly by modern standards. It's all angular and samey-looking with low-polygon models and blurry textures, so if that puts you off, then you're probably wasting your time. However, there's a lot of custom content available for use in the Aurora Toolset that pretties up the game rather nicely, so don't judge it too harshly.

 

Two things really give the game its cult-like following -- multi-player/persistent worlds and the Aurora Toolset.

 

Multi-player's never really been my bag, and persistent world's largely leave me cold, so I'll let someone else gush embarrassingly about those, but the Aurora Toolset is probably one of the best game editor's I've ever used, especially for beginners. It's intuitive, it's reasonably flexible, it includes wizards to help you get started, there's a ton of content and a pretty hefty archive of documentation to assist you in getting your head around things like scripting and custom content creation, and a selection of tools that will handle script creation for you if you're really not an aspiring code monkey.

 

Best of all, it's fast. You can knock out a simple two quest module in an hour, and if you're willing to sink a lot more time and effort into your building, you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish. All of which is pretty spiffy for a game released in 2002.

 

Give it a bash. You'll either love it or loathe it, but you'll never know what you're missing until you try.



#11
Elhanan

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if the graphics are not to one's liking, there has to be some mods for improvement after all these years that should be suitable. I know there are new terrain tiles, waves for water, and the like; just not sure of all the textures, meshes, and other Skyrim type of alterations that would be there now.

FWIW - Fave mods from memory include the Aielund series, the A1-3 series from Alazander, several of mods from Hugie, ENOA4, Marc Price, and Firestarter. There are hundreds of quality stories and utility mods available.

#12
Estelindis

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The Prophet series of modules for NWN1 remains one of the best RPGs I've ever played.  Highly recommended!  The Aielund Saga and Sanctum of the Archmage are worthy too.

 

In terms of official content, I think that Hordes of the Underdark is the best Bioware campaign for NWN1.  As for NWN2, I'm actually quite partial to the official, vanilla campaign.  As with a fair few Obsidian games, the end could use a bit more attention, but in general I still think it's very good.  Mask of the Betrayer is good too, though I'm not as mad about it as most people seem to be.



#13
Jfoxtail

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Definitive answer : Yes

 

Reason: Inexpensive and massive amount of free content from the community to supplement. 

 

Additional Info : depending upon how involved in community modules / PWs you become expect some opportunity for less "linear" game play. That is the plot line will not move you through to "ultimate ends" without thought.



#14
MayCaesar

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Here is my take on this.

 

NWN2 is pretty much like Dragon Age with a bit older graphics (still looking good with some visual mods though). You control every character individually, including their gear, their abilities, etc. The story in the original campaign is so-so, but the companions are really well made, and some quests are hilarious (bard contest, anyone?). The MotB expansion, in my opinion, has the best story ever in a video game, with stunning music, original characters and some interesting moral situations. Storm of Zehir... is great for its customization (you get to make an entire party of 4 from scratch and play them!), but in terms of the story I wouldn't take it seriously. The last expansion, MotW, I haven't played.

The mechanics is D&D, which is harder to learn than DAO mechanics, but it really isn't that bad, and, since the campaigns aren't too difficult even on Very Difficult, you can learn without much pressure.

 

Now, NWN1... In terms of combat and controls, IMO, this game is abysmal. That is, the combat is quite strategic and requires some thinking in some situations. But you can control directly only your main character, and you can give basic commands to your companions (you can have only 1 companion in the first two campaigns and 2 companions in the last). The camera is clunky, and the movement is choppy. The campaigns themselves aren't bad, but I would definitely not put the first two campaigns on the list of my favorite RPG experiences. The last campaign is good, but a little to long to my taste. The game itself is quite old looking, since it was made back in the awkward days of "ugly 3D", when 3D was only starting showing up in most RPG games (yes, there were 3D RPGs before, and they looked even worse). So, if you are only interested in the official campaigns, I would say go for it if you feel like it, and don't go if you don't have much time to spend (3 campaigns together take a whole lot of time).

 

Where NWN1 shines however - and that's the reason I play it almost exclusively nowadays - is the toolset and user content made with it. There are countless modules (even though the old Vault is down and the vast majority of those mods are gone, hopefully only temporarily, there are still hundreds of mods available on the new community website), each of which essentially is a campaign on its own; many of them are higher quality than the official campaign, in my opinion. You can play them, which potentially gives you thousands hours of gameplay. Or you can create your own campaigns: the toolset is surprisingly intuitive and easy to use, although scripting can be tricky sometimes. You can also play on persistent words, it is somewhat like mini-MMOs.

 

It might be hard getting into NWN1 since the game, let's be honest, is extremely outdated by modern standards. Have you played KotoR series? If not, I recommend starting with them, since they have a system very like NWN's (less complicated though, which is good if you are just learning), and the overall gameplay is quite similar. If you have, then NWN1 with some graphical mods may look pretty much like KotoR in fantasy setting would. In fact, this is what the game reminded me the most of when I first played it back in 2013: KotoR! Music has a similar style (I believe the same composer made it, although I've never checked), character development is similar, combat is similar...

 

If you cannot get past the outdated mechanics and graphics of NWN1, no matter how hard you try, then it might be worth it to just play NWN2. The modding community isn't as big, but there are still enough modules to keep you occupied for a year. I don't know how easy the toolset is to use (most people say it is less convenient than that of NWN1, but I've never checked), but if all you want is play modules, then it doesn't really matter.

 

---

 

A small trick I found useful: if NWN1 looks too old to you, play through Baldur's Gate 1. After that game, NWN1 will look like a modern RPG, and you will easily get into it. :)


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#15
NWN_baba yaga

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I agree that Baldurs gate 1 did not age that good as i remembered it. Because the textures they used for the environment are so plain and ugly by now AND some you can find a bit similar if not completely reused in nwn too. So yes nwn with the best modifications does look better and is 3D!



#16
Lilura

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Play Pong!, and even NWN2 will look good. Scrub that, Pong! looks better.


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#17
icywind1980

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Maybe it's just me, but I don't think NWN looks all that bad. I mean ofc it's not amazing graphics like in Witcher 3, but it is still a quite serviceable game. The entire world is 3D and that to me is a big thing. Add in all the graphical updates and textures made my the community, and you have a very nice experience. Now with modern games, if I can't spin my mouse around and see 360° or look up at the sky, chances are I'm not gonna play it. IMO, any new game that comes out that's RPGmaker, 2D, Iso or top down is just being cheap and skimping on the player experience.


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#18
henesua

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Now with modern games, if I can't spin my mouse around and see 360° or look up at the sky, chances are I'm not gonna play it. IMO, any new game that comes out that's RPGmaker, 2D, Iso or top down is just being cheap and skimping on the player experience.

 

You are missing out on some really great games then. Don't Starve is an amazing game but uses 2D billboard graphics in an ISO view. It is my favorite right now because the game play is very well designed. The Shadowrun series of games by Harebrained Schemes are very fun RPGs with lite-tactics and combat, but simply an iso-view. I didn't play Pillars of Eternity and it also doesn't have the experience you restrict yourself to being another iso.

 

In my view, its far better to design a game's interface and graphics to meet the game play requirements rather than to get hung up on pushing the latest technology to the limit just for the sake of eyecandy.

 

This is one reason why I still play NWN. Its almost as developed graphically as it would ever need to be. NWN2 took it too far in my opinion for what this is. The only thing NWN would really need is modern shaders and perhaps better lighting, but its otherwise perfect for what it needs to be. I can live with out postprocessing affects like bloom and blur and all that. And I don't need really complex environments. The 2.5 D environments are actually fine for what we do. It would be nice if it was a real 3D thing, but I'm not sure how this would affect modding or the speed at which the level information is translated from server to client.



#19
icywind1980

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You are missing out on some really great games then. Don't Starve is an amazing game but uses 2D billboard graphics in an ISO view. It is my favorite right now because the game play is very well designed. The Shadowrun series of games by Harebrained Schemes are very fun RPGs with lite-tactics and combat, but simply an iso-view. I didn't play Pillars of Eternity and it also doesn't have the experience you restrict yourself to being another iso.

 

In my view, its far better to design a game's interface and graphics to meet the game play requirements rather than to get hung up on pushing the latest technology to the limit just for the sake of eyecandy.

 

This is one reason why I still play NWN. Its almost as developed graphically as it would ever need to be. NWN2 took it too far in my opinion for what this is. The only thing NWN would really need is modern shaders and perhaps better lighting, but its otherwise perfect for what it needs to be. I can live with out postprocessing affects like bloom and blur and all that. And I don't need really complex environments. The 2.5 D environments are actually fine for what we do. It would be nice if it was a real 3D thing, but I'm not sure how this would affect modding or the speed at which the level information is translated from server to client.

 

They might be great gaming experiences for you, but they won't be for me. I will constantly be frustrated by the lack of physical depth to the world and the controls will endlessly annoy me. Especially RPGmaker games, they feel like I'm going back in time. Nostalgia doesn't do much for me, and the story is not nearly compelling enough to make me suffer NES graphics. As far as iso games, the only ones I can tolerate are Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile, but really not for very long as I get a headache trying to crane my head in a way that will allow me to see more. (Which never actually works though.)

 

I googled the games you listed and they disappoint me. They would be leaps and bounds better in full 3D. If NWN which came out in 2002 can do it, so can these ''so called modern'' games. And I plainly disagree about the about the graphics. I don't need it to be the latest and greatest. My computer still can't even run Guild Wars 2 due to system specs. But it is a minimum requirement for the game world and characters to be 3D. I won't waste my limited gaming time on anything less.



#20
Tchos

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Nostalgia doesn't do much for me

They would be leaps and bounds better in full 3D.

 

Doesn't do anything for me either.

But count me as another one who's glad those great games aren't in full 3D.  Some of us like the style.



#21
MayCaesar

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I don't think 3D is necessarily better than 2D or vise versa. For me the main thing has always been the graphical aesthetics rather than level of detail or 2D/3D. A game like Planescape: Torment wouldn't be any worse in beautiful 3D than it is in 2D. Maybe it would have a different feel, but then Mask of the Betrayer demonstrated that games of this kind work well in 3D as well.



#22
Tchos

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Yes, I think Planescape: Torment would definitely benefit from a 3D facelift.  They used some pretty bad 3D assets to make that game, and didn't even clean up the resulting 2D images with artistic touchups like the other Infinity Engine games did.



#23
icywind1980

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Doesn't do anything for me either.

But count me as another one who's glad those great games aren't in full 3D.  Some of us like the style.

 

To each their own, I guess. Oh and it's kind of hard to reply to quotes though, when half the words are cut out. If you don't mind, can you quote my messages full on. They lose a lot of my meaning when you don't.



#24
Tchos

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I wanted to make it clear which parts of the message I was replying to.


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#25
henesua

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I googled the games you listed and they disappoint me. They would be leaps and bounds better in full 3D.

 

While I can accept that you have different preferences for your entertainment and leave it at that, you've gone beyond that in this quote and made a bad assertion that I've seen others accept as given. Its lead to some really terrible game design.

 

As far as the games I mentioned go, not one of those games would be better in full 3D. The Shadowrun games are perfect for what they are. Full 3D would just get in the way of the game play and needlessly bog down development. And even more so, Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together are perfect in regards to presentation meshing with the game play. Don't Starve would be worse in 3D.

 

You may want a more immersive experience aesthetically. Thats fine. I can accept that. As I said I think you are missing out on great games, but if you want to miss out on them that is fine. Play what you like. Enjoy what you want.

 

But from a game design standpoint 3D graphics should only be used if they are needed for or complement the game play. If it is unnecessary, it is better to leave it out and go with 2D or ISO or some other simpler style of presentation that makes more sense for what the game is. And I am particularly glad that quite a few game designers have abandonned the needless obsession with higher fidelity 3D experiences. Its resulted in better games as resources have been put into design of the actual game play rather than yet another custom rolled state of the art 3D engine with millions upon millions of dollars spent on generating art assets.

 

And I am a bit taken aback that I would have to assert this in an NWN forum. The game looked dated when it was made let alone now, and yet has very good game play and immense modding potential because of the simplicity of its design. One example: the aesthetic limitations of the tile based environments are huge, but the advantages of them for online play more than offset this. I could go on and on. NWN is not really a true 3D game, but it fakes it really well and has a great deal of charm because of it. I think they hit just the right note with this engine and thats why most of us are still here.


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