Playing a Rogue in DA:O was one of the most bland experiences I've ever had.
This is actually how I felt about mages in Origins, which was even more damning considering all of the powers they possessed. I guess I'm just a sucker for the visceral effect of having enemies scream and burst when I land a fatal hit with lightning. Nothing was as fun to me as my primal force mage of DA2 though.
But that's what silverite is for! >____>
Silverite, Red Hart Leather and one or two others remove the restriction on armor, but when did you first see Silverite? Isn't it around Emprise which is one of the last places to go in the game? It doesn't help them wield a sword, or a shield or a bow; that only helps in one aspect of what Mages got stripped of. There are weapons beyond staves in the first game designed specifically for mage use, and I don't mean the conjured one.
Spellweaver, Duncan's Sword, the Dragonbone Cleaver; those three pop to the forefront of my mind based on stats to be used by a mage. The first of the three is a sword made specifically for the Arcane Warrior. I did also make sure to put the requirements on there because it meant your Mage could also use a bow or a crossbow which meant when they ran out of mana they weren't defenseless. Staves in DA:I seem to have a far lower dps count to purposely put the spell damage down and makes it far more annoying to attempt killing anything when your mana depletes.
Playing as a Mage during Inquisition does feel pretty bland and boring, Origins had Shapeshifter, Blood Mage and Arcane Warrior. Arcane allowed the use of a permanent sword called Spellweaver which is better than that crappy spirit blade. Archers are more powerful in DA:I though, i can clear a field of enemies faster than a Mage can and also take down Demons five levels higher than me with ease, Mage is lacking that punch it had in Origins unfortunately.
And then, In 9:48 Dragon, The chantry outlawed Archery. Bows were burnt by the thousands, Arrows disassembled. Those who knew the forbidden trade were gathered and publicly executed. Never again would anyone in Thedas be at risk of becoming a pincushion.
Seriously though, I can agree with this, All of the 'umphf" factor from playing a damage dealing mage is gone. You're a utility/cc mage or a support mage now, Not a healer, Not a damage dealer. I understand removing blood mage, especially with the inquisitor's circumstances, but other classes should still exist. Playing a Knight-Enchanter and soloing a dragon (because all the party does is waste your potions) just doesn't feel as satisfying as killing half the battlefield before exploding, nor as satisfying as babysitting your under geared tank with your healing spells because, man, gear is expensive and there was that one piece of equipment that looks better than all others in the game so you just have to have it, but there's no gold left for you to buy your tank a new shield, let alone a chest plate.
And then, In 9:48 Dragon, The chantry outlawed Archery. Bows were burnt by the thousands, Arrows disassembled. Those who knew the forbidden trade were gathered and publicly executed. Never again would anyone in Thedas be at risk of becoming a pincushion.
Seriously though, I can agree with this, All of the 'umphf" factor from playing a damage dealing mage is gone. You're a utility/cc mage or a support mage now, Not a healer, Not a damage dealer. I understand removing blood mage, especially with the inquisitor's circumstances, but other classes should still exist. Playing a Knight-Enchanter and soloing a dragon (because all the party does is waste your potions) just doesn't feel as satisfying as killing half the battlefield before exploding, nor as satisfying as babysitting your under geared tank with your healing spells because, man, gear is expensive and there was that one piece of equipment that looks better than all others in the game so you just have to have it, but there's no gold left for you to buy your tank a new shield, let alone a chest plate.
You can take my bow when you can pry it from my cold dead hands, LONGSHOT GO!
Bow wielding Templar Warrior for life, which is what I consider the MP archer. He's a warrior, not a rogue as he's the only 'rogue' that doesn't have stealth as an ability.
You can take my bow when you can pry it from my cold dead hands, LONGSHOT GO!
In 9:49 Dragon they finally tracked down the Inquisitor. He had been taking refuge in an elven ruin since the Chantry's ban was declared. He/she looked out to the army before him/her, and donned his/her bow, the Inquisitor would not go down without a fight. Ordinary soldiers were no match for the Inquisitor, Thousands fell to the Inquisitor's arrows and Thousands more to the power of the Anchor. The fighting lasted for days, soldier after soldier was slaughtered by the Inquisitor, until finally a desperate final push succeeded in closing the gap. The Inquisitor was stabbed a dozen times before he/she fell, desperately firing close range shots at those who swung at him/her. With the last of his/her strength the inquisitor loaded a final shot, aiming for a weak spot in the ruins. The shot exploded, collapsing the ruin on top of him and the soldiers. It took weeks to dig out the bodies. The Inquisitor's body was the last to be found, still clinging to his bow. The enemy captain pried the Inquisitor's fingers from the bow and raised it high, Praising the men for their victory. Yet when the bow was to be burned that night, it had vanished. Rumor has it that the bow was stolen by an old friend of the Inquisitor, perhaps even his lover. Searches were conducted yet they all came up empty. It was though the bow had vanished, never to be seen again.
And that is how the last Inquisitor, and Herald of Andraste died. The Inquisitor was betrayed as Andraste was betrayed. The chantry claims that the Inquisitor's actions pleased the maker, and when the Inquisitor was accepted to The Maker's side, The Maker himself stole the Inquisitor's bow as a token of thanks for the Inquisitor's bravery while living.
In 9:49 Dragon they finally tracked down the Inquisitor. He had been taking refuge in an elven ruin since the chantry's ban was declared. He looked out to the army before him, and donned his bow, the Inquisitor would not go down without a fight. Ordinary soldiers were no match for the Inquisitor, Thousands fell to the Inquisitor's arrows and Thousands more to the power of the Anchor. The fighting lasted for days, soldier after soldier was slaughtered by the Inquisitor, until finally a desperate final push succeeded in closing the gap. The Inquisitor was stabbed a dozen times before he fell, desperately firing close range shots at those who swung at him. With the last of his/her strength the inquisitor loaded a final shot, aiming for a weak spot in the ruins. The shot exploded, collapsing the ruin on top of him and the soldiers. It took weeks to dig out the bodies. The Inquisitor's body was the last to be found, still clinging to his bow. The enemy captain pried the Inquisitor's fingers from the bow and raised it high, Praising the men for their victory. Yet when the bow was to be burned that night, it had vanished. Rumor has it that the bow was stolen by an old friend of the Inquisitor, perhaps even his lover. Searches were conducted yet they all came up empty. It was though the bow had vanished, never to be seen again.
And that is how the last Inquisitor, and Herald of Andraste died. The Inquisitor was betrayed as Andraste was betrayed. The chantry claims that the Inquisitor's actions pleased the maker, and when the Inquisitor was accepted to The Maker's side, The Maker himself stole the Inquisitor's bow as a token of thanks for the Inquisitor's bravery while living.
I'm sad that I can't like this more than once.
I miss being a Force Mage. The "substitutes" didn't come close to what you could do with that specialization. I also miss the original "walking bomb" spell. The "BOOM" was so much better in origins. I agree, the magic is much more like Skyrim magic - much less magical - much more work, and less strategic.
I liked the Necromancy specialization until they had to ruin it by telling me it was accomplished by shredding spirits - or the equivalent of spirit embryos. I only played it once.
Magic abilities in DAO were always a little overpowered weren't they? I mean, certainly that's fun
, but not because it's a fantastic design choice.
I did enjoy playing as a mage in Inquisition, but I would agree that the enemies with magical abilities could have been a lot more interesting. I mean, we've had templars telling us for ages that a single lone
Clearly Templars should hunt whoever uses two handed weapons because those SOBs are the bane of my party.
Are you kidding me, OP? I haven't had this much fun being a mage in a long time. Knight Enchanter ftw!
Are you kidding me, OP? I haven't had this much fun being a mage in a long time. Knight Enchanter ftw!
I could see mages being a little overpowered back in DAO, but here in DA Inquisition, they are way too nerfed now. And reduced to mostly elemental trees
Playing as a Mage during Inquisition does feel pretty bland and boring, Origins had Shapeshifter, Blood Mage and Arcane Warrior. Arcane allowed the use of a permanent sword called Spellweaver which is better than that crappy spirit blade. Archers are more powerful in DA:I though, i can clear a field of enemies faster than a Mage can and also take down Demons five levels higher than me with ease, Mage is lacking that punch it had in Origins unfortunately.
Plus, it's kind of ironic that Inquisition has no cities or npcs really and your greatest ongoing enemy is bears, and yet, you can't turn into one...
From the 10,000 times I've fought one, I clearly know they have the necessary mesh to let you!
But no, mages forgot how to shapeshift and cast decent AOE spells and heal injuries.
I could see mages being a little overpowered back in DAO, but here in DA Inquisition, they are way too nerfed now. And reduced to mostly elemental trees
Mostly? They took over the spirit damage role from the Templar and lost the ability to cast Earth magic entirely. Stonefist doesn't even do blunt damage, its all spirit. Ya cant even say "well there's a spirit healer in DA:O" because they were exclusively healing and resurrection spells, no damage. The Death Tree only had one damage spell in DA:O which was Walking Bomb, the only spell that made it through unscathed from that tree.
Even the DA 2 mages got a better deal than the ones in DA:I, they still got the following trees to play with before even encountering a specialization: Elemental, Primal, Spirit, Arcane, Creation and Entropy. You didn't even need to get stuck with a specialization to learn Walking Bomb because it was a spell a Mage could attain without giving up a precious specialization point to gain it. I do say point because in DA:O and DA 2 you got points for specializations, not a random grab bag fetch quest and the option of one specialization that can't even be changed when re-speccing your character.
Mostly? They took over the spirit damage role from the Templar and lost the ability to cast Earth magic entirely. Stonefist doesn't even do blunt damage, its all spirit. Ya cant even say "well there's a spirit healer in DA:O" because they were exclusively healing and resurrection spells, no damage. The Death Tree only had one damage spell in DA:O which was Walking Bomb, the only spell that made it through unscathed from that tree.
Even the DA 2 mages got a better deal than the ones in DA:I, they still got the following trees to play with before even encountering a specialization: Elemental, Primal, Spirit, Arcane, Creation and Entropy. You didn't even need to get stuck with a specialization to learn Walking Bomb because it was a spell a Mage could attain without giving up a precious specialization point to gain it. I do say point because in DA:O and DA 2 you got points for specializations, not a random grab bag fetch quest and the option of one specialization that can't even be changed when re-speccing your character.
This. well said. DA2 had fewer spells it felt like, but some of the new ones were great, like the DA2 rift felt powerful and it knocked enemies off their feet... now they just stand still and get slowly sucked in. Again, it feels like mages both on your side and against you aren't powerful anymore.
As for tempalrs, the only thing they have is that one AOE combo they can do, but without enemy mages that are actually... you know, mages, most of their skills are very useless. And suddenly I'm draining barriers instead of mana?
Why?
Well, I know why, the enemy mages don't have real spells and don't have mana to drain. It sucks honestly, how is this tactical?
There was really only one worthwhile mage build in DA:O, because of how OP it was, and that's basically a nuker mage. Being a nuke in DAI is far more underwhelming, but that's likely a wortwhile balancing goals since in DA:O your build options were: 1) take it seriously, so faceroll via 3 mages, 2) don't take it seriously, so nerf your mage as something else and 3) don't use mages.
While I'd like to see magic move away from damage toward cooler effects and CCC - force mage was a great idea - if mages are going to be build around damage then how DA:I handles it is not necessarily a bad solution. Terrible CCC spells in that class, though, compared to DA:O and DA2. I know some people swear by it, but I think static cage is a special kind of crap.
There was really only one worthwhile mage build in DA:O, because of how OP it was, and that's basically a nuker mage. Being a nuke in DAI is far more underwhelming, but that's likely a wortwhile balancing goals since in DA:O your build options were: 1) take it seriously, so faceroll via 3 mages, 2) don't take it seriously, so nerf your mage as something else and 3) don't use mages.
While I'd like to see magic move away from damage toward cooler effects and CCC - force mage was a great idea - if mages are going to be build around damage then how DA:I handles it is not necessarily a bad solution. Terrible CCC spells in that class, though, compared to DA:O and DA2. I know some people swear by it, but I think static cage is a special kind of crap.
We rarely agree, but static cage is indeed a special kind of crap. Seriously, give me a damn fireball, paralysis spells, tempest or cone of cold... and give them to my enemies too, make an enemy mage more then just a crappy mob like a bear or an archer.
This new bioware is dead, as david gaider once said, "get over it".
Obsidian & Paradox are well aware of how hard Bioware is failing, they'll make an RPG in homage to Dragon Age Origins, I'm sure.
Obsidian should make the real Dragon Age 2 imo.
We rarely agree, but static cage is indeed a special kind of crap. Seriously, give me a damn fireball, paralysis spells, tempest or cone of cold... and give them to my enemies too, make an enemy mage more then just a crappy mob like a bear or an archer.
The truth is that a lot of CCC spells are pretty broken. A mass paralysis is pretty much a wipeout unless you start implementing a complex series of resistances - which, don't get me wrong, Bioware absolutely should be implementing - so I kind of understanding cutting them. But not giving anything in return is pretty disappointing.
There was really only one worthwhile mage build in DA:O, because of how OP it was, and that's basically a nuker mage. Being a nuke in DAI is far more underwhelming, but that's likely a wortwhile balancing goals since in DA:O your build options were: 1) take it seriously, so faceroll via 3 mages, 2) don't take it seriously, so nerf your mage as something else and 3) don't use mages.
What happened to simply making a party and rolling with it? Where's the 'take one or two mages and make them as powerful as you can' option in your list?
I always pick a mage, a warrior, a rogue and one other who I like having in the party for whatever reason. I've never felt the need to minmax on that level. But then I don't feel the need to boast about beating a game on nightmare either.
There was really only one worthwhile mage build in DA:O, because of how OP it was, and that's basically a nuker mage. Being a nuke in DAI is far more underwhelming, but that's likely a wortwhile balancing goals since in DA:O your build options were: 1) take it seriously, so faceroll via 3 mages, 2) don't take it seriously, so nerf your mage as something else and 3) don't use mages.
While I'd like to see magic move away from damage toward cooler effects and CCC - force mage was a great idea - if mages are going to be build around damage then how DA:I handles it is not necessarily a bad solution. Terrible CCC spells in that class, though, compared to DA:O and DA2. I know some people swear by it, but I think static cage is a special kind of crap.
what exactly is a "nuker mage"? i think arcane warrior spec made the class OP, it took away the "glass" part from cannon. personally i never used that spec - ideology reasons: warriors are inferior, if you use melee weapon you're a warrior, mage wearing plate is like paladin and should be killed immediately...
i don't think DAI mage balance is a result of DAO mage op-ness - there is a KE spec (i never used it, ideology and whatnot). it looks like the cause is MP inclusion - which is kind of weird because in co-op synergy matters more than dps (but looking at swtor, and copy&paste skill trees i'm not surprised). it would made more sense to include more viable CC spec to somehow differentiate builds/classes, add some utility (DAI's cc spells are ridiculous) - although i'm against crowd-controller being the only possible build.
EDIT:
there are three specs in DAI.
"nuker" KE, a most non-mage spec ever
rift mage - a potential crowd-controller
necromancer - boring doter/summoner
none of those is fireball throwing mayhem that can be obliterated by one stray arrow. oh wait, there is no fireball anymore.
i never played DAMP but i assume skills are the same as in SP campaign
I miss getting my whole party wiped out in a single Exhaustion spell from Arcane Horror in DA2.
I still freak out a little when I see Arcane Horrors in DA:I and have to resist my muscle memory of running away XD
The arcane horrors of DA2 were pretty something. That one on Sundermount that spawns after finding the Aweirgan scroll was particularly nasty. Melee characters have a particularly bad time.
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