74 réponses à ce sujet

[Seyd71]

In Mass Effect 2, If you do Arrival, you kill 300,000 Batarians to slow down the Reapers' arrival. However, Admiral Hackett says that eventually Shepard will have to own up to it and turn himself/herself in. This where most players found themselves at the beginning of Mass Effect 3. While it changes little, Batarians and others try to make you feel guilty about it. However, I find a few problems with this.

 

1. Everyone says you killed 300,000 Batarians, but according to the planets' descriptions only Aratoht has a population, but it says only 90,000 people on it are free, while 215,000 are categorized as "other". Considering the fact that the description states "the majority of laborers are indentured servants or slaves", It's more like you're killing 90,000 and mercy killing 215,000.

 

2. The Reapers were going to kill them anyway, I mean Shepard had to have some proof of it from data at the project.

 

3. While Shepard went in alone to rescue Dr. Kenson, there was no reason for his crew not to meet him at the project. They kept Shepard sedated for two days, and yet his crew wasn't the slightest bit concerned about it. They could've come in after a few hours or at least the first day and dealt with everyone there, leaving about a day to warn people and evacuate most, if not all the people on Aratoht.

 

4. Balak, who is apparently a high ranking Batarian official in ME3, tried to hit Terra Nova with an Asteroid. Considering that Terra Nova has a population of around 4.4 million in Mass Effect 1, and that he was going to hit the capital city, the most densely populated region, he probably would've killed as much or more than the 300,000 who died in Bahak. In addition, none of the 4.4 million were slaves like on Aratoht.

 

5. The Batarians are literally just terrorists who murder and enslave people when Mass Effect starts. They aren't even part of the Council, and I'm willing to bet that they don't just enslave humans.

 

6. Finally, what proof do the Batarians and or Alliance have that you did it? Hackett says the information is shoddy at best, yet the only people who knew about it were Hackett, who asked you personally to do it, and the crew of the Normandy.

 

This one of the things that bug me in Mass Effect and honestly, the next time I play ME3 (if I do at all), I'm considering killing Balak.

[Han Shot First]

It was supposed to be politics, really. Officially Shepard has been sanctioned and facing justice, but behind the scenes he's actually being shielded by Hackett (who sent you there in the first place) and Anderson. It's all a smoke screen to mollify the Batarians and avoid conflict. Shepard's basically in a gilded cage, not necessarily a prisoner in the true sense of the word. He's not behind bars in a military brig, for example.

 

The Batarian Hegemony are also massive hypocrites considering their role in sponsoring the Skyllian Blitz, and if not in funding Balak, at least in shielding him from justice. But the squints being hypocrites is actually consistent with how they are portrayed. 

[Vazgen]

About the evidence, Batarians knew Kenson's plans. And they most likely have security cam footage from the prison, when Shepard rescues her. 

And as for not feeling guilty, the games try hard for you not to. The whole Batarian race is presented in a negative light throughout the trilogy. But killing 300.000 people should make someone feel guilty IMO, regardless of who were those people.

[MrFob]

1. Not sure if what you call "mercy-killing" (what a term) is making things better really. You did kill 300.000 people. Period.

 

2. The batarians didn't care, they were angry in the first place and they didn't believe in the threat. The alliance and the council are skeptical about the entire reaper issue (for whatever reason, they should know better). No one knew the reapers were coming, except those who were in direct contact with object rho. And you killed all of those.

 

3. This is true, especially since they do show up to pick Shep up n the end. Maybe they didn't know that Shep even left the prison planet in the first place (the Kodiak, in which s/he and Kenson escape is a stealth craft after all). However, why Shep didn't call them from the shuttle, I don't know.

 

4. So? Shep's actions were considered bad, Balak's intentions were considered worse. I don't see a problem here.

 

5. True. Still, wiping out one of their systems is still not a nice thing to do. Besides, you said it yourself before, a lot of the victims in the Bahak system were slaves and may not even have been Batarians.

 

6. I think the problem was that the Batarians were going to blame the alliance, hard evidence or not, to use this as an excuse for retaliation. Since the alliance didn't want a war, they needed a fallguy for the entire affair and Shep was the one to play the part (and as Han Shot First said, being publicly sanctioned while actually shielded). IIRC this is all more implied than outright stated and it is a while since I last played through this stuff, so I may be wrong. EDIT: Oh, yea of course, they knew about the project anyway. Thanks Vazgen.

[MrFob]

Their attitude is actually comical to me. Everything about the Batarians is funny. Especially Balak. "You just don't want to understand!" I can't hate them, because they're not very realistic. I've never seen anyone with their heads this far up their asses.

 

I "liked to dislike" them in Revelation, where a bit more of their society is revealed but yea, it was a steady roll downhill from there.

[MrFob]

As for the original topic, it's hard for me to stir up some feeling of guilt about this. It's a very railroaded story/DLC, and the only thing I feel responsible for is buying it. But like EDI says, the Batarians seemed to be much cooler people without the Hegemony around. I'd be willing to recruit them, but not with Balak. It's better to just kill him in ME1.

 

Agreed. I think it would have been much better if we'd have had a real choice in the matter. It would have been tough to implement the consequences of not destroying the system though. Probably would require a major story rewrite for the DLC.

[Vazgen]

Agreed. I think it would have been much better if we'd have had a real choice in the matter. It would have been tough to implement the consequences of not destroying the system though. Probably would require a major story rewrite for the DLC.

Shepard uses an "I win" Paragon option to convince Harbinger not to invade just yet. Big cuttlefish obeys due to Shepard's power of awesome

[Vazgen]

Another funny Batarian is the sick terrorist. When you say you had no choice, because the Reapers were coming.

 

"Ha! Easy for you to say, now that they're here." lol... What kind of response is that? Does he actually believe Bahak was an attack, and the Reapers a coincidence?

More like that Shepard makes up the reason for blowing up the system and places the blame on the Reapers. Like Reapers were going to invade anyway and Shepard uses it as an excuse to blow up a Batarian system.

[Han Shot First]

BTW, who else calls them "squints"? The only time I've seen it is Jack's romance.

 

 

Zaeed maybe? It sounds like something he would say.

 

Although it isn't from a squadmate, I know it shows up in a log entry you can access during the mission N7: Abandoned Mine in ME2.

 

Alien Machine Discovered

Smithson's men dug out some kind of alien machine today. Like nothing I ever saw. Called up some of my contacts and found out there's a market for this kind of thing. Looks like some squints over at Elanus Risk Control are willing to part with a ton of credits to get their hands on one of these things. Far be it from me to deny them a chance to pay me.

[Vazgen]

I still have to laugh. I can't take these guys seriously.

 

It's why I want a Batarian game. A Batarian Mad Max to be specific.

I have a sneaking suspicion that ME:Next will present Batarians in a whole different light. That suspicion is mostly based on Bray's character (Omega DLC team is working on ME:Next)

[Vortex13]

About the evidence, Batarians knew Kenson's plans. And they most likely have security cam footage from the prison, when Shepard rescues her. 

And as for not feeling guilty, the games try hard for you not to. The whole Batarian race is presented in a negative light throughout the trilogy. But killing 300.000 people should make someone feel guilty IMO, regardless of who were those people.

 

 

The trilogy did a poor job of portraying the Batarians as a whole until ME 3 IMO. All of the players' interaction with them, all of the lore and references to them (outside of that one Batarian that helped Garrus/Archangel) paints them as nothing but an entire species of racist xenophobes that are stupid evil. The Reapers had a method to their madness, but the Batarians were evil for the sake of being evil.

[Jorji Costava]

I think that Arrival is very disingenuous about its 'hard choice'; it gives lip-service to the idea of serious consequences for one's actions, but also takes every step possible to minimize those consequences: 300,000 lives will be lost, but hey, they were going to die anyway, and they're only Batarians, who don't really matter anyway. It's not really about doing hard things; it's about getting to be the kind of person who does hard things, and in that sense, it's as much a power fantasy as anything else in the trilogy.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I don't use Arrival in my playthroughs.

I'm not playing my Shepard as a mass murderer. The random Alliance team carries out the mission and takes the blame in all of my imported saves.

[KaiserShep]

Personally I don't really mind the whole 300,000 being wiped out in the relay explosion, but I am bugged by the 2 day gap. Some friends you are, Joker and Miranda! This keeping the protagonist alive for no good reason thing is such a weak tactic by the villains and their henchmen. Like sure, keep the human killing machine alive. No chance of a murderstorm there. Fending off the waves of troops and the YMIR mech to earn that achievement was fun though.

[wright1978]

It was supposed to be politics, really. Officially Shepard has been sanctioned and facing justice, but behind the scenes he's actually being shielded by Hackett (who sent you there in the first place) and Anderson. It's all a smoke screen to mollify the Batarians and avoid conflict. Shepard's basically in a gilded cage, not necessarily a prisoner in the true sense of the word. He's not behind bars in a military brig, for example.

 

The Batarian Hegemony are also massive hypocrites considering their role in sponsoring the Skyllian Blitz, and if not in funding Balak, at least in shielding him from justice. But the squints being hypocrites is actually consistent with how they are portrayed. 

 

Personally i hated it and i hated the fact i can't be incensed with the idiots that are Hackett and Anderson.

And i hate that whole horrible railroaded DLC.

[dorktainian]

Arrival was a convenient ruse by the reapers to destroy a key batarian military outpost prior to their arrival in the milky way.  As shown later, destroying one relay really would make no difference in the greater scheme of things.  The reapers would just jump to another gate at the speed of plot.

 

That's if it really happened......

[KaiserShep]

I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Kenson wasn't indoctrinated and Shepard simply saved her and the plan went off without a hitch. I imagine they would have tried to warn the batarians, but that probably wouldn't have worked and they'd have to flee the system to escape them anyhow.

[in it for the lolz]

I think's funny, giving what the Alliance did to John S-117 Shepard* (the kidnapping, hacking him up to place the cybernics in his body, making sure he can't have any kids of his own, and lest of all making him into a unthinking killing machine with no morals what so ever). That the Alliance has the spine to charge him with that.

 

(*this my Shepard's name in case you were wondering. With a backstory on him coming soon! )

[dorktainian]

"hacking him up to place the cybernics in his body"

 

actually looking at the talent selection screen, that's pretty much what they did.

[in it for the lolz]

"hacking him up to place the cybernics in his body"

 

actually looking at the talent selection screen, that's pretty much what they did.

I mean when he was 14 years old. He was once in a progamme called the "Defenders" before the Alliance shut it down.

 

I wont go into details because I have not finshed his backstory yet.