276 replies to this topic

[rjshae]

Over the past year I've been looking into what it would take to reproduce the NWN campaign Hordes of the Underdark. My goal would be essentially to reproduce it without significant changes to the plot or pacing, while allowing players to use the full feature set of the NWN2 engine. That means using a fixed set of companions with their associated banter, trying to produce similar area layouts, and generally sticking to the same pool of monsters, adversaries, and items where possible. (The less I try to experiment with new features and functionality, the lower the likelihood of my being side tracked. )

 

Thus far, the Beholder, Drow, and Illithid tilesets have been ported to NWN2, and 4760 has been very helpful in converting doors and some creatures. I've also ported several required placeables and found equivalents for a few others among PJ156's massive Cornucopia. (I went through and took screen shots of every placeable in that set so I could rapidly find the parts I need; at least the ones that would display.) Once FaerzressSprinkles has finished conversions of the other creatures, I believe the last major hurdle will be overcome. All of the other areas can be built using existing assets.

 

What I'd like to start with is a mini-module of just the initial Waterdeep experience, leading up to the descent into Undermountain, in order to test all of the major steps in the port. That will mean:

• Creating creature and item blueprints
• Converting the NWN-style conversations into NWN2 form--the two seem to work somewhat differently, so I'll need to figure out the NWN logic
• Extracting a large number of sound files used in conversations and environmental ambiance--this part is simple but tedious
• Converting NWN portraits for named creatures into NWN2 icons--mostly done
• Migrating the various scripts--fairly straight forward, I hope
• Building the areas

Building creature templates in Windows 8.1 is a royal pain, so I've been using a different PC for that part. But the set of blueprints is essentially complete now. I know the standard interior tileset for NWN2 has grown a little stale over the years, so I'm debating whether to do a reskin and apply decals to make it look more like the original. The initial dream sequence uses some fairly elaborate visual effects, so I will probably need to make some custom effect files in NWN2 so I can reproduce that. 4760's build of the Valsharess and her whip will be useful for that scene.

 

All in all, I'm not sure how far I will get with this, but hopefully the journey will be enjoyable.

[Tchos]

(I went through and took screen shots of every placeable in that set so I could rapidly find the parts I need.)
 
 
I know the standard interior tileset for NWN2 has grown a little stale over the years, so I'm debating whether to do a reskin and apply decals to make it look more like the original.

 
For me, it's the wallpaper pattern that makes it really stick out.  It's not bad when the same colour is used for the base and the pattern so it's just a solid colour, in my opinion.

 

A bit off-topic, but would you consider posting your visual catalogue of the cornucopia?  I would find it useful, and I'm sure others would, too.

 

I think I've said it before, but I'd definitely prefer to play HotU in the NWN2 engine so I wouldn't have to squint at NWN1's tiny dialogue font in that little dialogue window, and so that the party members would be fully controllable companions instead of those "henchmen".  I've had the game for years now, and I still haven't gotten around to trying the expansions, mostly for those reasons, even though I know everyone says HotU is worth it, and I'm interesting in seeing an official game set in the Underdark (assuming at least part of it takes place there).

[andysks]

Same here. I finished the OC but I didn't bother with the expansions because of what Tchos said. I would really like to play it, but preferably at the NWN2 engine. I hope you'll achieve it. 

[GCoyote]

HotU was IMHO the best of the official campaigns. Extensive plot, expansive areas, and the henchmen were much more controllable than in the OC or SoU. The writers also seemed to have a good grasp of what epic should entail. After all these years it would be great to replay it in the NWN2 environment and with modern processor speeds (the big battle with the drow lagged pretty badly when I first played it.  

[PJ156]

That's a worthy project Mr Shae. I wish you well with it.

 

I played HotU and it stood out among the others. IMO it was the best of the litter and deserves your time.

 

PJ

[kamal_]

 I know the standard interior tileset for NWN2 has grown a little stale over the years, so I'm debating whether to do a reskin and apply decals to make it look more like the original.

I don't remember the look from HotU, There are some good textures for the standard interior in my texture project, one might fit what you want.

 

[rjshae]

 
A bit off-topic, but would you consider posting your visual catalogue of the cornucopia?  I would find it useful, and I'm sure others would, too.

 

Here's an archive file if you want to grab a copy.

 

https://www.dropbox....catalog.7z?dl=0

 

 

I don't remember the look from HotU, There are some good textures for the standard interior in my texture project, one might fit what you want.

 

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Please consider using exterior areas for some of the underdark - tiles will only get you so far in making that savage place come to life.

[rjshae]

Please consider using exterior areas for some of the underdark - tiles will only get you so far in making that savage place come to life.

 

Yes, I'm planning to do that for areas with uneven terrain. I might have to port a few structures out of the tilesets for specific placeables.

[OfficerDonNZ]

I like the idea One thing if you do manage to port HotU you'll be able to up the party limit. In HotU you could only have two henchmen at any one time. In NWN2 you don't have such a restriction. Some of the HotU scripts I suspect may need to be changed that govern that.

 

Being able to have Nath, Valen and Deekin would be very cool

[4760]

In NWN2 you don't have such a restriction.

Yes you do. It's in the module settings (unless you can only have access to this limit for campaigns?)

[rjshae]

I like the idea One thing if you do manage to port HotU you'll be able to up the party limit. In HotU you could only have two henchmen at any one time. In NWN2 you don't have such a restriction. Some of the HotU scripts I suspect may need to be changed that govern that.

 

Yes I'd like to do that, but the problem with allowing a larger party is that it may unbalance the game. I think it will take some play testing to see if the combat becomes too easy.

[4760]

• Converting the NWN-style conversations into NWN2 form--the two seem to work somewhat differently, so I'll need to figure out the NWN logic

What do you mean exactly? I just exported a conversation from NWN (using the NWN toolset of course) and copied it into a module (in directory mode obviously, but as the export gives an erf file, it should be easy to import it for a .mod format).

It appears to be the same structure, the only thing that needs to be done is to convert the dialog.tlk and dialogF.tlk files from NWN to NWN2 (otherwise, you'll get only blank lines...)

[PJ156]

Yes I'd like to do that, but the problem with allowing a larger party is that it may unbalance the game. I think it will take some play testing to see if the combat becomes too easy.

 

I think it likely worth the effort. A port such as this should add value IMHO, aside from just a graphic improvement. Anything you can squeeze into game play and perhaps extra content would all enhance the play experience?

 

PJ 

[Tchos]

Maybe after it's done as was done originally, just so you don't get sidetracked as was your concern in the first post. 

[rjshae]

What do you mean exactly? I just exported a conversation from NWN (using the NWN toolset of course) and copied it into a module (in directory mode obviously, but as the export gives an erf file, it should be easy to import it for a .mod format).

It appears to be the same structure, the only thing that needs to be done is to convert the dialog.tlk and dialogF.tlk files from NWN to NWN2 (otherwise, you'll get only blank lines...)

 

I haven't delved into it in much detail yet. What I saw of it just looks a little different is all. (For example, are multiple speaker tags on a response a type of selection logic? If so, is it the first match selected?) I'm sure it won't be an issue.

 

I think it likely worth the effort. A port such as this should add value IMHO, aside from just a graphic improvement. Anything you can squeeze into game play and perhaps extra content would all enhance the play experience?

 

Well we'll see how it goes... I might ask for suggestions later on.

[Shallina]

if it 's to easy for a full party, make it difficult enought

[rjshae]

if it 's to easy for a full party, make it difficult enought

 

I probably need to focus on the more difficult battles; the rest is mostly grinding, so I can always add a few more encounters here and there to use up resources. The original game didn't have much of a resting system, but I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile to implement rest encounters since players can just reload. It might be better to just limit rest to certain safe locations or cleared areas.

[BartjeD]

A well done encounter system could be very cool. For example by making it execute random-event themed encounters instead of only spawning monsters. It could spawn a wandering merchant or two, some illithids fighting with slaves, one of Halaster's apprentices doing something, and so forth. 

[rjshae]

A well done encounter system could be very cool. For example by making it execute random-event themed encounters instead of only spawning monsters. It could spawn a wandering merchant or two, some illithids fighting with slaves, one of Halaster's apprentices doing something, and so forth. 

 

I agree with you; there's also some temptation to add an additional companion or two. But for now, just reproducing the campaign will be challenge enough.

[MrKWMonk]

HotU was IMHO the best of the official campaigns. Extensive plot, expansive areas, and the henchmen were much more controllable than in the OC or SoU. The writers also seemed to have a good grasp of what epic should entail. After all these years it would be great to replay it in the NWN2 environment and with modern processor speeds (the big battle with the drow lagged pretty badly when I first played it.  

 

+1

 

I played through the two official expansions in 2010 with a melee mage on a laptop whilst living in Belgrade on a long holiday.  Due to all those factors I have fond memories of it.  Still got the save games actually.  Would be awesome to see HotU in NWN2.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

 

-kaos

[rjshae]

Slow but steady progress is being made.

 

For the areas, I'm trying to make them look at least somewhat unique by adding custom-built placeables. Thus, with the standard interior tiles, I've added floor placeables with tile texture from NWN, created a panel box covering for the stone pedestals along the walls, and inserting my own medieval-styled window panels. I'm making much use of custom placeables to avoid the over-repetition of the stock set. Thus far I only have five areas mostly complete; there's a lot of detail work needed for each one, such as setting matching waypoints, scripts, door tags, and inventory. I'm finding it's quite a bit different than building my own, since any little mistake may potentially mess up the various interworkings of the module.

 

The most cumbersome part of the conversion is proving to be the Conversations; transferring them line by line and then setting up the scripts is a time-consuming process. It would be a big time-saver if there was a way to export and import conversations between NWN and NWN2. But it's gratifying when it's complete and I can run through the set. The sound files convert over cleanly, adding some nice voice-overs. I'm also using the NWN icons for the conversation GUI, which means trimming it to a square icon and shrinking it to half the size.

[Tchos]

You could do without shrinking them.  The engine doesn't mind.  It shrinks them down as necessary.

 

(You could also incorporate a UI mod that keeps the NWN1 portrait aspect ratio.)

[rjshae]

I know, but by doing it myself I have better control over what part of the image appears in the box. It gets pretty shrunk down as it is. Somebody is always free to mod it later if they want.

[GCoyote]

"Thus far I only have five areas mostly complete ..."

I amazed you're even willing to tackle this!