148 réponses à ce sujet

[Draining Dragon]

I think gaming started as more of a "nerdy male" thing, but it's branched out a lot since then.

[Abraham_uk]

You know what? I'd love to play a disabled character one day.

 

I know in Marvel games you can occasionally play as Daredevil or Professor Xavious.

 

One thing that I can recommend to avoid the "token" issue is imagine everything a non disabled person can do.

Now imagine a disable person doing it.

Now do some research into how a disabled person in real life achieves this.

 

I've just been watching Marvel's Daredevil. I honestly thought that show would be utter garbage. How wrong I was.

Can't wait for Series 2. I wonder if the actor who plays Matt Murdock is actually blind in real life. 

[Cyonan]

You know what? I'd love to play a disabled character one day.

 

I know in Marvel games you can occasionally play as Daredevil or Professor Xavious.

 

One thing that I can recommend to avoid the "token" issue is imagine everything a non disabled person can do.

Now imagine a disable person doing it.

Now do some research into how a disabled person in real life achieves this.

 

I've just been watching Marvel's Daredevil. I honestly thought that show would be utter garbage. How wrong I was.

Can't wait for Series 2. I wonder if the actor who plays Matt Murdock is actually blind in real life. 

 

Personally, I don't really see the point of a PC blind character if you aren't going to make blindness part of the gameplay. Which if you are, that sounds a lot like just playing with my monitor turned off =P

 

I could see playing as Xavious in a more dialogue/story focused game, though.

 

The main thing you need to avoid for a disabled character in a story I think is making that their primary personality trait. It should be something that is a part of them, but it shouldn't be their entire identity like with what can happen with so many video game characters where one trait becomes their entire personality.

[Commander Rpg]

I don't use female characters in games, because I cannot think how a woman does, neither I want to be in her shoes.

Different thing, if it comes to use an already scripted woman (like Broken Sword and such).

I think the different approach to gaming is visible even in the early stages of life: boys like to gather and do a hellfest, or a one on one death match (arm wrestling, football [european football], etc.), girls are more inclined to have their private time for a talk about their interests, or relaxing games. This doesn't imply inequality, rather it implies different tastes ingrained on every man and woman.

[Abraham_uk]

Personally, I don't really see the point of a PC blind character if you aren't going to make blindness part of the gameplay. Which if you are, that sounds a lot like just playing with my monitor turned off =P

 

I could see playing as Xavious in a more dialogue/story focused game, though.

 

The main thing you need to avoid for a disabled character in a story I think is making that their primary personality trait. It should be something that is a part of them, but it shouldn't be their entire identity like with what can happen with so many video game characters where one trait becomes their entire personality.

 

"Monitor turned off". So basically an audio game. To be honest that sounds awesome. I would like to play one of those one day.

As for Xavious being in "a dialogue/story focused game" you mean like the Tell Tales games? I haven't played any of those but I hear they're awesome.

 

You hit the nail on the head though. It is difficult to do right. When someone does it wrong, I am not going to kick up a big fuss about it. That is something that would deter people from trying. I want people to try. I'll praise developers and writers when they get it write and point out when they get it wrong. Of course this is all subjective.

 

I think the problem is when people get it wrong, we grab a base ball bat and bash their heads in. It's gotten to the point where many writers outright avoid writing any characters outside of the "Cisgendered, white, heteronormative male, 20-40 something non disabled" bubble. People do this to avoid backlash.

 

It's all "I want a female character! If you don't write one then you a misogynist!" one minute and "OMG you made her a damsel in distress you misogynist pig! How ******* dare you! You are a rotten carcass of a human being! You have no soul!" Okay then. We won't write another female character ever. Heck in our next game it will be all men. Even the characters in the background will be all men. This attitude doesn't help diversity. It harms diversity. This is what I despise about so many SJW's. They think they're helping, but they're not.

 

I prefer to encourage writers to try, constructively point out when they get it wrong but continue to encourage them to keep trying. When writers get it right I praise them.

 

 

I don't use female characters in games, because I cannot think how a woman does, neither I want to be in her shoes.

Different thing, if it comes to use an already scripted woman (like Broken Sword and such).

I think the different approach to gaming is visible even in the early stages of life: boys like to gather and do a hellfest, or a one on one death match (arm wrestling, football [european football], etc.), girls are more inclined to have their private time for a talk about their interests, or relaxing games. This doesn't imply inequality, rather it implies different tastes ingrained on every man and woman.

 

That is fair enough. I don't have a problem with that.

Personally I try to play people who are nothing like me.

 

 

Real me: Male    Fantasy me: Female

Real me: can't fight   Fantasy me: can fight

Real me: no problems  Fantasy me: loads of problems

Real me: no super powers   Fantasy me: any kind of magic/super powers available in game

 

If you can only play as a male, I'll play as a male.

Besides Kratos is awesome! Damn!

Nathan Drake. He is pretty awesome too!

I'm partial to a good male empowerment fantasy too.

 

The point I'm making is, play who you want to play. Don't let anyone tell you what kind of characters you should play as.

It's cool bro.

[Cyonan]

"Monitor turned off". So basically an audio game. To be honest that sounds awesome. I would like to play one of those one day.

As for Xavious being in "a dialogue/story focused game" you mean like the Tell Tales games? I haven't played any of those but I hear they're awesome.

 

You hit the nail on the head though. It is difficult to do right. When someone does it wrong, I am not going to kick up a big fuss about it. That is something that would deter people from trying. I want people to try. I'll praise developers and writers when they get it write and point out when they get it wrong. Of course this is all subjective.

 

I think the problem is when people get it wrong, we grab a base ball bat and bash their heads in. It's gotten to the point where many writers outright avoid writing any characters outside of the "Cisgendered, white, heteronormative male, 20-40 something non disabled" bubble. People do this to avoid backlash.

 

It's all "I want a female character! If you don't write one then you a misogynist!" one minute and "OMG you made her a damsel in distress you misogynist pig! How ******* dare you! You are a rotten carcass of a human being! You have no soul!" Okay then. We won't write another female character ever. Heck in our next game it will be all men. Even the characters in the background will be all men. This attitude doesn't help diversity. It harms diversity. This is what I despise about so many SJW's. They think they're helping, but they're not.

 

I prefer to encourage writers to try, constructively point out when they get it wrong but continue to encourage them to keep trying. When writers get it right I praise them.

 

The thing about playing with the monitor off is like getting a kill while flashbanged in Counter-Strike. My response is more "holy s*** I actually hit something?" rather than a feeling that I am performing well.

 

It's not even entirely that it's difficult to do that mechanic right, but that it's so easy to do it wrong and when you do the game likely becomes virtually unplayable. I can appreciate trying something new and difficult, but I also understand hating on a bad game.

 

The telltale games is what I had in mind. To be honest, disabled character or not I like the idea of games being able to succeed without being ridiculously combat heavy. Combat is fine and fun, but sometimes I want something else.

 

A part of the problem is perception: A lot of publishers and developers think that the average gamer is a male who only wants to play as a 20-40 something grizzled white guy. Personally, since I already am a 20 something white guy I want to play as something different. I usually pick non human and/or female characters when given the choice. I get to be a 20 something white guy every day of my life.

 

My understanding for the game Life is Strange is that dontnod had some issues, because publishers didn't want a game with a female protagonist. The game so far has ended up being really good, even if it does have some cringe worthy dialogue at times.

 

As far as female characters go, I think the best thing the games industry can do is to largely ignore the Tumblr crowd. Let them rage and talk about how you're sexist because in that one scene your female protagonist needed a man to help her and just focus on making good characters with good dialogue.

[mybudgee]

no the actor playing Matt Murdock is not blind. Anthony Hopkins not a cannibal. And Lena Headey is actually a nice person in real life. Its called acting

[Commander Rpg]

Anthony Hopkins not a cannibal.

He assisted the elephant man, he can't be a cannibal.

[Handsome Jack]

no the actor playing Matt Murdock is not blind. Anthony Hopkins not a cannibal. And Lena Headey is actually a nice person in real life. Its called acting

 

Off-set in the 80s, Robert Englund was extremely friendly and many of his fellow Elm Street actors asked him for dating advice often.

 

Actors can be cool sometimes.

[Abraham_uk]

no the actor playing Matt Murdock is not blind. Anthony Hopkins not a cannibal. And Lena Headey is actually a nice person in real life. Its called acting

 

I know it's called acting.

However quite often disabled people are cast in disabled roles.

I thought maybe the actor was blind in real life.

 

It is not half as ridiculous as assuming Anthony Hopkins is a cannibal .

Also I doubt Lena Headey would be getting any jobs if she behaved like Cersei Lannister.

[SmilesJA]

 

 

The Scythian(Swords and Sorcery)- strong character, doesn't immediately indicate the physical appearance of a female, has no backstory, has no apparent motivation to accomplish the goal at hand, has no character evolution, is basically a completely blank slate

 

 

Who is she? I have not heard of her before.......

[LPPrince]

Who is she? I have not heard of her before.......

 

https://www.youtube.... in video games

[mybudgee]

@Abraham: no idea why I was so saucy in that post. 4give me??

[Abraham_uk]

@Abraham: no idea why I was so saucy in that post. 4give me??

 

All is forgiven.

Though to be honest, I don't think you've done anything wrong.

[SmilesJA]

That Sworcery game wasn't too bad aside from being overly pretentious. (see: the spelling of "sworcery")

 

But what was so good about the main character that earned her (rare) praise by Anita?

[LPPrince]

But what was so good about the main character that earned her (rare) praise by Anita?

 

Basically that she was a blank slate. She had no backstory, she had no motivation to complete the quest at hand, she was completely malleable by the player. Basically, you could impose your own feelings and opinions on to her because she wasn't a narratively predefined character.

 

Thing is, the character doesn't even look female. Its just a thing. You'd get the same effect if you claimed the marble in Marble Blast Ultra was a girl. Its bizarre.

 

I don't see how Bayonetta or Zelda are somehow lesser or harder to relate to for men and women than a sprite with nothing to justify its existence.

[LPPrince]

I don't know, I don't speak for Anita.

She's pretty much like a female Link, ie there's nothing really there.

Most of the Zeldas outside of Tetra and maybe the Skyward Sword one had little in the way of characterization either. So putting Zelda (or some incarnations of Samus, etc) on some kind of pedestal by comparison is kind of funny.

The crucial point about gaming that I think gets lost amidst all the literary critique is that it's possible to like all these characters despite them being bland as **** in the literary sense, if you just enjoyed the game for what it was.

 

What I don't get is why we have people trying so hard to point out all these perceived "flaws" they see in certain characters, instead of actually going out and creating the characters they want to see.

 

If you don't think these characters with flaws should be removed or stopped from being created, leave them alone. Talk about the positives of what you want to see and just those positives. If you keep bringing in these other characters to critique them, or worse to claim that your opinion of them is a fact of the character, than expect to meet some resistance.

[LPPrince]

Because they're a critic and not a game developer, I take it.
 
I don't see what's so wrong with someone pointing out what they see as flaws. It's their opinion. Though I feel you may be mischaracterizing their desire as wanting all women represented to be flawless golden goddesses. The alleged flaws are more about representation and reflect on the game itself more than the individual characters.
 
Naturally, but I don't see the harm in this either, assuming the resistance is an alternative opinion about the character/game.

 
True, what I meant by that is funding their development, rather than actually putting in the work to create them whole.

 

And as for my problem with the flaws constantly being pointed out, its because those flaws are often pointed out as facts rather than as perception or opinion.

 

It sounds like, "Bayonetta is a highly sexualized character who's sexualized movements shame women and reinforce etc etc etc"

 

​instead of what it should sound like which is, "Bayonetta is a highly sexualized character who's sexualized movements make me feel like etc etc and may have the effect of shaming women and etc etc"

 

Opinions presented as facts happen all too often in that circle, and it hurts to see/hear.

[Abraham_uk]

Okay just so that you know where I'm coming from.

 

I'm the kind of guy who hears both MRA and Feminist arguments and ends up agreeing with both sides.

I'm the kind of guy who wishes to be enlightened about LGBT issues, race issues and disability issues.

I endeavour to be an egalitarian. I'm a bit rubbish at being an egalitarian if I'm honest, but I'm trying.

 

What has helped a lot with me developing perspectives is seeing well written disabled characters, LGBT characters, female characters and characters of different cultures.

 

I have grown up with a lot of ignorance, and representation has actually helped me. Tyrion Lannister is my favourite character in Game of Thrones because he really changed the way I view "disability". You know what else really changed me? The Para Olympic games. So many inspirational athletes who have overcome a lot of difficulties.

 

 

I don't always agree with Anita Sarkeesian but I am grateful to her for opening my mind on tropes relating to females. I don't think games contribute towards misogyny however I do feel that they can help provide better representation for women and minorities. You can list thousands of games with empowered female protagonists (I'm not even talking about player created protagonists). I love that those games exist. I want to encourage more of that.

 

I'm not sure if this makes me a "social justice warrior". That Avatar I've picked was merely to be provocative. I want to encourage equality. It's not my strong suit but hey I'm giving it a go.

 

 

 

P.s. Anita! Hurry up! One video every three months after all those donations? What gives?