You know people in open relationships can still love their spouse more right
You really want to force on us this " open relationship " thing with her, huh? I don't remember anything in DA2 that suggested that her romance was open. She was interested in sex only with Zevran and yet I could tell her to not go and she agreed. That's who she is, I get it, but forcing something on the player when player didn't agree or never had a choice is pretty much a dick move.
Talis: "I can honestly say I'm a little jealous of you right now."
Isabela: "Well, there is a lot of Hawke to go around, you've just have to ask me nicely." *wink*
One interpretation could also be that she is not sure what to make of Tallis since she do not have the best history with the Qunari or their philosophy so she dislikes Hawke and Tallis' flirting because she may not like not being able to see all of Tallis' cards but after learning that Talis is trying to prevent families from potentially being harmed or killed, she no longer worries about Tallis' motives or that she may be manipulating Hawke.
That response was for Male Hawke only. She didn't like when Tallis was hitting on Fem!Hawke.
No, thats for both sex at the end of the DLC.That response was for Male Hawke only. She didn't like when Tallis was hitting on Fem!Hawke.
I can't imagine an Izzy who would never be attracted to anybody but a romanced Hawke, nor can I imagine an Izzy who wouldn't say anything about that. (Hell, that's an unreasonable expectation out of basically any relationship, let alone one with one of the most sex-positive people in all of Thedas.)
What planet are you from? I thought that was one of the most basic expectations of most relationships.
That response was for Male Hawke only. She didn't like when Tallis was hitting on Fem!Hawke.
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Z5jDWxae1Q - 1:51)
Maybe it depends upon which stage the romance is on or whether or not it is a rivalry or friendship romance?
Hell, even looking upthread at some of the other responses shows that that...stuff...flows both ways. Some people are unhappy about Izzy flirting with the other agents; others are unhappy that she would bother to work with the Inquisition when she 'should' be a free spirit with the Armada, relieving fools of their valuables and generally having a fun time. That's an equally valid outcome of DA2's story, and it's not really accounted for in Inquisition in a way that's kind of bemusing.
Like you, I enjoy having Izzy around. She's one of my favorite characters in any BioWare game. If I played more of the MP, I'd probably have a lot of fun with this DLC. And I don't have a problem with her appearance in the MP as it is. But the overall issue raised in the thread - of certain aspects of the world states not being accounted for in game - is a real one, and an unfortunate one. Everything has a cost in game development, and condensing friend and rival Isabela into a single character was probably done for ease of implementation and writing as anything else. But rivalmanced Isabela was an important character to me, and it's less fun to play Inquisition now that she's gone.
I have a few questions:
1. Are you saying with the bolded that Inquisition doesn't account for an Admiral Isabela doing that? I must be misunderstanding, because that's exactly what Varric said she was doing in my game.
2. How does a Rivalmance Isabela preclude working with the Inquisition? In your previous linked post, you talked often about how her arc included realizations about the cost of her actions, and generally trying to mold her into a "good" person. Couldn't her decision to help the Inquisition be interpreted in large part as exactly that sort of selfless mindset for the good of others? Yes, ultimately she is obviously helping herself as well, but it would be far easier for her to stay on the sea and away from the fighting, hoping the Inquisition sorts things out. "Isabela helping the Inquisition" is the sort of ambiguous action that, I think, works fine for either of Isabela's character arcs in DA2.
No thats for both sex at the end of the DLC.
The male version was a dick joke.
*sigh* No, it is not. Like I said. Isabela responded differently for my Fem!Hawke. There was even a topic long time ago on DA2 forum that Isabela is jealous of Fem!Hawke and not Male.
Edit:
Well, Shechinah posted a link with that line, so...
*sigh* Yes it is! Look at the video in this post:*sigh* No, it is not. Like I said. Isabela responded differently for my Fem!Hawke. There was even a topic long time ago on DA2 forum that Isabela is jealous of Fem!Hawke and not Male.
( - 1:51)
*sigh* Yes it is! Look at the video in this post:
And why are you posting me this? I told you like two times that she was jelly of Fem!Hawke and not Male, so...?
EDIT: Okay, I had to read everything again. We misunderstood each other. I was talking about the scene at 1:40, becasue it's for Fem!Hawke only. Isabela has different response for Male Hawke. And this is what I meant.
Because you said this reponse :And why are you posting me this? I told you like two times that she was jelly of Fem!Hawke and not Male, so...?
Also, Hawke can, y'know, not bring Isabela on the Zevran mission.I think that Izzy's about as flirty in the MP DLC as she is in DA2 or anywhere else. Even a rivalmance with Diplo/Helpful Hawke (aka "trying to make her into as nice a goody-two-shoes as possible") doesn't really prevent that. Even if Hawke convinces her to take responsibility for her actions, and she does it, she's still Izzy. She's still bisexual, flirty, and sex-positive. Even if she's not actually nailing anybody other than Hawke anymore - and there's nothing that specifically says says she does - she's still going to be sexy and flirty.The real damage to anybody's headcanon was done in the vanilla game SP, where Hawke and Izzy don't stick together, where Izzy goes back to being a free-spirited irresponsible pirate in spite of rivalry/friendship relationship status (even if unromanced) and in spite of the outcome of the expedition to Ath Velanis, and where Varric refers to all Hawkes that romance Izzy as male due to the single most infuriating banter glitch in the history of gaming.
Being interested in Zevran doesn't make it that much better Though. You're assuming she's just interested in Zevran and not other people.You really want to force on us this " open relationship " thing with her, huh? I don't remember anything in DA2 that suggested that her romance was open. She was interested in sex only with Zevran and yet I could tell her to not go and she agreed. That's who she is, I get it, but forcing something on the player when player didn't agree or never had a choice is pretty much a dick move.
They are not going to change it, if you want your Hawke to stay with Isabela just accept it, if not just move on, whinning on the forum is not going to change it.Yeah I have no issues with sexy and flirty. I would have issues with her nailing others on the side in hawke's absence.
I can just about cope with main game separation if varric's alluded to reunion actually happens.
Yes that scene is different, for femHawke she shays that Hawke likes rivaine rogue and for maleHawke she makes a dick joke.
Still she is ok with Hawke being with Tallis if she ask for permission, thats a open relationship.
seems to me she's more implying a threesome but people can view that chain of choices leading to an open relationship but there are equally chains of choices that don't view it as being open.
That line can indeed be interpretated in more than one way, in my opinion; one wau is as a joke, another as a threesome and a third as evidence of an open relationship. Less so, in my opinion, can her propositioning Zevran and expressing exasperation when Hawke protests especially since, if I remember correctly, her proposition seems to be on herself and not including Hawke at first.
They are not going to change it, if you want your Hawke to stay with Isabela just accept it, if not just move on, whinning on the forum is not going to change it.
Being interested in Zevran doesn't make it that much better Though. You're assuming she's just interested in Zevran and not other people.
Granted, as I said before DA2 left up to the players decide what type of relationship Bela and Hawke have, because it's not clear.
No, it doesn't. I remember big WTF for the first time when that happened in my game. But that was the only time she was interested in something like that.
@Boost32: I didn't have that line at the very end of the DLC, because I simply didn't flirt with Tallis more than once. Hell, I didn't even like her. She was freaking annoying and wanted to get rid of her ASAP. I flirted with her only because I was curious of Isabela's reaction and this is when I had " Rivaini rogues " line, which was amazing. And the next one with " I have purpose. I have Hawke. " was also awesome.
And saying we have to accept her " open relationship " thing and move on is also a dick move. I didn't agree on something like that and I never would. Game never gave me a chance to say a single word about this whole issue and this is why I also have one big " WTF " again after playing MP as Isabela.
Oh, and one more thing. Hawke and Isabela never were in a relationship BEFORE act 3 and before her personal quest with Castillion, so she naturally could do whatever she wanted and this is why Hawke didn't have a say in whole Zevran situation. ( But can stop it AFTER Isabela's quest )
But after that mess with Castillion, Isabela admits she's falling for Hawke and before the final battle with Meredith, she says that she risked love for Hawke. So again, how could player know it was an open relationship if they weren't in a true relationship before act 3? After "locking" romance nothing ever indicated that it was an open relationship.
@Boost32: I didn't have that line at the very end of the DLC, because I simply didn't flirt with Tallis more than once. Hell, I didn't even like her. She was freaking annoying and wanted to get rid of her ASAP. I flirted with her only because I was curious of Isabela's reaction and this is when I had " Rivaini rogues " line, which was amazing. And the next one with was also awesome.
And saying we have to accept her " open relationship " thing and move on is also a dick move. I didn't agree on something like that and I never would. Game never gave me a chance to say a single word about this whole issue and this is why I also have one big " WTF " again after playing MP as Isabela.
What planet are you from? I thought that was one of the most basic expectations of most relationships.
I have a few questions:
1. Are you saying with the bolded that Inquisition doesn't account for an Admiral Isabela doing that? I must be misunderstanding, because that's exactly what Varric said she was doing in my game.
2. How does a Rivalmance Isabela preclude working with the Inquisition? In your previous linked post, you talked often about how her arc included realizations about the cost of her actions, and generally trying to mold her into a "good" person. Couldn't her decision to help the Inquisition be interpreted in large part as exactly that sort of selfless mindset for the good of others? Yes, ultimately she is obviously helping herself as well, but it would be far easier for her to stay on the sea and away from the fighting, hoping the Inquisition sorts things out. "Isabela helping the Inquisition" is the sort of ambiguous action that, I think, works fine for either of Isabela's character arcs in DA2.
Yeah I have no issues with sexy and flirty. I would have issues with her nailing others on the side in hawke's absence.
I think that the MP dialogue is reasonably vague enough to go any way you like. It's easier to reconcile Hawke-Isabela monogamy with Dragonslayer than it is to reconcile it with Hawke's own comments at Skyhold after meeting the Inquisitor.
I see now. Given the thread I thought there was something about the DLC that had caused Rival Isabela to disappear.That is exactly backwards.
I said that the Inquisition MP DLC doesn't account for a friended Admiral Isabela - someone who is encouraged to be an irresponsible free spirit - suddenly deciding to lay down her life for a bunch of randoms in Orlais and Ferelden and personally fight as an agent of the Inquisition. You could make it work, I suppose, because friended Isabela did a lot of incomprehensible things in DA2 as it was - like coming back with the Tome of Koslun, or returning to Kirkwall at the beginning of Act 3, or joining the fight at the Gallows - but it doesn't make sense on the face of it.
Conversely, a rivalmanced Isabela would be the exact sort of responsible person that ought to try to save the world. Rivaled Isabela would make a great deal of sense as an agent. But in the vanilla game, she is separated from Hawke by what is apparently mutual agreement, she doesn't participate in Hawke's plan to investigate the Wardens, and she goes back to pirating and all the things that the rival ending to "No Rest for the Wicked" indicated that she wouldn't do again. In the vanilla game, everything Isabela does is basically consisted with friendship and inconsistent with rivalry.
So you think that the prerequisite for any romantic relationship is "neither one of you can ever admit any attraction of any kind to any other person"?
Even if we limit this to "monogamous, non-open relationships" (my favorite kind of relationship, fwiw) that doesn't follow at all. Some couples "only have eyes for each other", and that's cool for them. Good job. But most people aren't like that. For some, they need to go through a lot of other relationships before finding one that works; pretending that all the previous ones were utterly meaningless and that they were all with persons that were totally unattractive in every way would be an egregious lie. Other people only ever have one partner, but they admit attraction to other people even if it would never actually be acted on.
Again, there are apparently plenty of people who can go through their entire lives without ever being attracted to anyone except one person. But most people don't, and saying that all those relationships are shams is indicative of an incredibly unrealistic set of expectations.
Yes, actually. That was my interpretation of how people generally want relationships. I'm not saying you're wrong to have gotten a different impression, and I'm not saying all other relationships are "shams". I'm just saying I'm really surprised because from my experience in life that seems to be a standard expectation.
Time to shake the hornets' nest. In MP, Isabela flirts with the Archer. It goes like this:
Hall: "Does anyone want to go for drinks at the tavern? That's what friends do, right?"
Isabela: "Only if the drink leads to something else, sweet thing."
That hardly sounds monogamous to me.
Edit: Rion is the Elementalist, Hall is the Archer. Fixed that.
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