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[Aulis Vaara]

Because there are seven old gods and seven sealed Elven gods, the theory has been put forward before that they are one and the same. I'm personally not convinced of that, but at the very least they seem related.

What I want to put forward, however, is that Dumat is not tied to Elgar'nan as has been speculated before, but rather Dirthamen, keeper of secrets. This seems so incredibly obvious now that I'm surprised I've not seen it discussed before (though it may have been, I haven't seen every single discussion, afterall).

 

The first thing that clued me in was a Codex entry in the Fade that spoke about how Dumat kept his Silence, his secrets. Likewise, in the temple of Dirthamen, the presence of which is a hint in itself, the eerie poem also speaks of keeping secrets as keeping Silence (with a capital letter, even). Dirthamen himself is depicted holding his hands before his mouth, signifying silence.

The thing that completely solidifies it however, is that on Solas' wall, when it comes to the part of the Assault On Haven, we can see Corypheus with two ravens in his center/heart. Fear and Deceit. Heck, those demons (well, if you consider Envy to be Deceit) even serve him as they once did Dirthamen.

 

--

 

Given this change, here's how I would match up the Old gods with the Elven gods:
 

1. Dumat, the Dragon of Silence - Dirthamen, keeper of secrets
   See my reasoning above
    
2. Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and Old God of freedom - Ghilan'nain, mother of the Halla
   It is said that she made more than just the Halla, like monsters and beasts, that spanned the seas, the earth, and the sky. Freedom and chaos often seem to go hand in hand in Thedas.
    
3. Toth, the Dragon of Fire - Sylaise, hearthkeeper
   Sylaise is invoked with the lighting and extinguishing of every fire. Sylaise was considered the mightiest of the Elven pantheon, and the final fight of the third Blight was the bloodiest battle in Thedosian history.
    
4. Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves - June, god of the craft
   To be honest, June was simply the last on my list, but the more I considered it, the more it made sense. We know very little of June, but we do know he taught the elves to use Sylaise's gift. Which is to say, he taught the Elves to craft and smith items. The constellation of Servani is etched on the giant golems and then it hit me. Golems! Golems are crafted slaves, chained to the will of their master. What if Caridin wasn't the first one? What if the profane were the first Golems, crafted by June himself, but went mad when their master was locked away? It's a tenuous link, to be sure, but since we have no more information about June, it's all I have to go on.
    
5. Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty - Falon'Din, friend of the dead
   Falon'Din was so vain that he waged wars to amass more worshippers. One might point to the Codex: Constellation Tenebrium to point out a link between Falon'Din and Lusacan, but then, it is also believed that Silentir is related to Mythal, and we know that Dumat and Mythal are not related at all.
    
6. Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery - Andruil, goddess of the hunt
   Codex: Constellation Eluvia tells us that the constellations once belonged to Razikale, but is now know as Sacrifice and is involved in many superstitions involving wishes. Solas teaches us that Andruil was known as the Goddess of Sacrifice, and it was Andruil who made Ghilan'nain an elven goddess, which may have been the base for said superstitions.
   
   As for mystery, Andruil was quite knowledgeable and kept secrets. She was the goddess who hunted in the Void and figured out how to get there. In fact, Mythal had to learn from her. And apparently Andruil also crafted a terrible weapon.
   
   As for storytelling, Andruil seems like the Elven goddess most closely related to the blight and thus, to further unravel the mysteries, it would make sense that she is one yet to be touched on in the greater Dragon Age story arc.
    
7. Lusacan, the Dragon of Night - Elgar'nan, eldest of the sun
   Here he finally is. Displaced into being the final Old God. Why? Because Elgar'nan decided to kick the sun out of the sky and essentially created an eternal night. He only relented because of Mythal, and even then only partially, ensuring that night would come after each day.

[Dai Grepher]

Sorry, but I think this is completely incorrect.

 

I think Inquisition confirms that all the elven gods are false gods who were just powerful spirits/elves. They existed before Tevinter, fell to internal strife before Tevinter, and were sealed away before Tevinter. Then Tevinter moved in and scavenged the magic from the elven ruins.

 

Tevinter's old gods were and are dragons however. We get to see one of them in the form of the corrupted archdemon during Origins. So I don't think the old gods are at all related to elven gods.

 

This is part of the reason why I can't stand when Razikale is so easily lumped in with Eluvia. Just because a small group worshiped Razikale as such doesn't mean it was the truth. My theory is that they incorrectly attributed Eluvia's story with Razikale, and Razikale simply rolled his eyes and ignored them because of it. Hence, the silence.

 

Also, I don't think those are ravens on Cory's mural. Those are his hands.

[Heimdall]

Here's one thing that's always bothered me about that theory.  The lore has the Old Gods as all male, doesn't it?

[Shechinah]

(to Dai Grepher) Flemeth was able to transform into a dragon and as far I have been told, pass this technique on to Morrigan. We also do not know exactly what happened to the elven gods or how exactly Solas locked them away so I would not consider the possibility that the elven gods are the dragon gods or something related or of the sort impossible.

 

(to Heimdall) As far as is known but whether or not someone took an attempted peek at the sacred dragon area is something I'm uncertain of.

[BansheeOwnage]

Here's one thing that's always bothered me about that theory.  The lore has the Old Gods as all male, doesn't it?

All except Razikale, apparently. Hmm, didn't think about this before, but it's still possible there's an explanation there.

[Aulis Vaara]

Here's one thing that's always bothered me about that theory.  The lore has the Old Gods as all male, doesn't it?

 

Well, I did not say the Old Gods are the Elven Gods, merely that they are related.

[Statare]

These are some of the problems I see with the Elven Pantheon = Old Gods. Solas says straight up there is no connection, but he could be lying. Next, are the issues of Mythal death, the probable timing of the sealing away of the Elven Pantheon, how the Old Gods were present even after the Pantheon were said to be absent, and the only known location of an Old God thus far.

 

We know as of DA:I that the Pantheon vanished before the humans conquered the remnants of Elvenhan and Arltathan. Now, presumably the humans could have developed a worship system from second hand misinformation, but it is alleged that the Old Gods walked Thedas (by the Chantry) who also claims these beings were Demons. The Elven Pantheon is severed from Thedas and Solas seems to not want to apply a label on the Elven Gods, likewise with Abelas. The Old Gods are said to speak to humans through dreams while the Elven Pantheon, besides Mythal, been completely absent. The Chantry has nothing to say on the Elven Pantheon, probably because unlike the Old Gods, they had been silent/absent for thousands of years by the founding of the Chantry. Furthermore, when Dumat as an Archedemon assaulted the Imperial City, one of his priests recognized him, like he knew what he looked like. This memory is found in Nightmare's domain. And now, as of JoH, we know primitive human cultures may have had a thing for placing powerful fade entities in the bodies of Dragons. We also know that at one time the Old Gods granted wish fulfillments to humans (the shrine to Dumat in Legacy, and various Codex entries), but eventually became fickle, leading to the desperation of Corypheus and crew

 

Likewise, Mythal says she was betrayed. Mythal was said to have been killed, but not by the Dread Wolf, but presumably by on of the others. Yet, she is the agent behind the possible preservation of Urthemiel's soul. Why would she want to do that if one of them had killed her? Similarly, why would the Eternal City (Black City) be said to be where the Elven Gods are imprisoned, the seat of the divine being that place seems a pretty cross cultural similarity, if the Old Gods are in the Deep Roads? Why would the Old Gods want the human magisters to enter the Black City, if they are Elven Deities imprisoned underground?

 

That leads me to another sticking point: the Deep Roads. From the ancient Warden logbook, we know at least one of the Old Gods were imprisoned in an ancient Dwarven Thaig that sounds a bit like the Primeval Thaig, where the Dwarves had a Pantheon of their own. Why would Elven Gods be in Dwarven spaces?

 

To me, I feel like there is a piece missing, and as of DA:I I believe that piece is the Dwarves/Forgotten Ones. In Legacy there was that thing the Dwarves imprisoned, which also took the form of a Dragon. Now that could have just been a gimicky boss encounter, after the description of the Thaig the Old God was near in DA:I, I think the Old Gods might be more connected with Dwarves, which would make sense why there seems to be pieces missing, as Dwarven Lore is underdeveloped as of now.

[Heimdall]

Well, I did not say the Old Gods are the Elven Gods, merely that they are related.

Personally, I'm more partial to the idea that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones

[Shechinah]

(to Heimdall) I can get behind that theory!

 

Ah, this is what I love; theory discussions and lore interpretations!

[Kantr]

All except Razikale, apparently. Hmm, didn't think about this before, but it's still possible there's an explanation there.

Razikale is male too.

[X Equestris]

I'm inclined to think that the "Old Gods" may have filled the same role for the Elven gods that the red lyrium dragon did for Corypheus. That would explain how the Well of Sorrows knew the weakness the dragon posed for Corypheus.

Failing that, it makes sense that they are the Forgotten Ones, or some aspect of them.

[Aulis Vaara]

Personally, I'm more partial to the idea that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones

 

Then where are the Old Gods Geldauran, Anaris, and Daernthal?

No, the Forgotten Ones are definitely not on Thedas at the moment. In fact, I think they left northward toward where the Qunari came from. Them being slighted over not being allowed to take Dragon form and wanting to return in mastery seems to echo the Qun to a T, in my opinion.

[earymir]

It's all very convoluted.  I assume we won't get a full reveal until DA:5.  (I think I heard the arc was written for 5 games some years ago?)   I think there is definitely a connection  - but no clue what it is exactly.  

[Shechinah]

It is still fun to speculate and piece together the clues; I believed the Architect was connected to the Old Magisters and had a theory that Flemeth was connected to Mythal or even was her so sometimes we hit closer than one would expect.

[Aulis Vaara]

Razikale is male too.

 

No, she isn't.

[X Equestris]

No, she isn't.

That's an interesting shift, though not everyone will have seen it themselves since JoH isn't out on all platforms yet.

[Aulis Vaara]

Likewise, Mythal says she was betrayed. Mythal was said to have been killed, but not by the Dread Wolf, but presumably by on of the others. Yet, she is the agent behind the possible preservation of Urthemiel's soul. Why would she want to do that if one of them had killed her? 

 

Because Mythal was Falon'Din's mother? Or maybe because just because the Old Gods are related to the Elven gods, they are not accessory to her murder. OR, which is think is most likely, she was not killed by the other Elven gods, but she WAS the stabilizing force among them, and when she fell away, every semblance of civility between them disappeared as well.

 

 

And now, as of JoH, we know primitive human cultures may have had a thing for placing powerful fade entities in the bodies of Dragons.

 

This part annoys me almost as much as Corypheus being Voldemort. Why would a dragon allow herself be possessed? And how often can people even make that happen, really?

[Heimdall]

Then where are the Old Gods Geldauran, Anaris, and Daernthal?

No, the Forgotten Ones are definitely not on Thedas at the moment. In fact, I think they left northward toward where the Qunari came from. Them being slighted over not being allowed to take Dragon form and wanting to return in mastery seems to echo the Qun to a T, in my opinion.

They're using different names, that's all.

[Heimdall]

 

This part annoys me almost as much as Corypheus being Voldemort. Why would a dragon allow herself be possessed? And how often can people even make that happen, really?

 

I imagine it wasn't a question of "allowing".

[In Exile]

Personally, I'm more partial to the idea that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones

 

Based on the alleged passage authored by Geldauran, one of the forgotten ones, in JOH, I don't think that's true. That passage made it seem like the FOs were against the concept of worship. It would be a big 180 to turn into the Tevinter OGs. Though maybe that's a means to an end to free themselves from what good ol' Solas did the first time around. Nice job breaking it, hero, indeed. 

[Shechinah]

(to In Exile) Solas' plans do seem to go about that way; if Solas attempted to preserve a mountain then his method of doing so would likely result in the mountain crumbling into dust in front of him or turn into some terribly thing that would attempt to bring about the end of the world.

 

He does not seem to have the best of luck with the execution and end result of his plans is what I'm saying.   

[Aren]

Yes and Bodhan is the maker...

[Shechinah]

(to Aren) No, no, Sandal is the Maker... or Solas is depending on who you ask.

[Dai Grepher]

I think the confusion with Razikale is due to a message in Jaws of Hakkon about his alleged worshipers using the Cave of Echoes to contact him again after he went silent. But I think their message is much to vague to be taken literally. They could have been mistaken because they think all high dragons are female, or they could have been referring to Razikale's priest(ess) who is depicted as female on Razikale's carving, or they may have been hearing Mythal's voice for some reason.

 

But I am pretty sure that previous lore established all the old gods as male.

[BansheeOwnage]

Razikale is male too.

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Razikale

 

Read this please.

 

Edit: Should have read the whole thread before posting