Also, not that I use David Gaider as a source, but for those who do...
http://forum.bioware...e-3#entry508158
He says the old gods are not the elven gods. Again, not that I consider his statements canon, especially not now that he's no longer involved in the series. The story could go anywhere, but those are the words of the lead writer at the time, for any who are interested.
Also, not that I use David Gaider as a source, but for those who do...
http://forum.bioware...e-3#entry508158
He says the old gods are not the elven gods. Again, not that I consider his statements canon, especially not now that he's no longer involved in the series. The story could go anywhere, but those are the words of the lead writer at the time, for any who are interested.
Well, on the Flemeth = Andraste = Dumat theory, we know she turns into a dragon, we know she was betrayed, and in the temple of Sacred Ashes we see a mural to her in the final battle with Corypheus.or maybe the cultist had a point. Maybe the her ashes were more then ashes And she need a new form?
Also, not that I use David Gaider as a source, but for those who do...
http://forum.bioware...e-3#entry508158
He says the old gods are not the elven gods. Again, not that I consider his statements canon, especially not now that he's no longer involved in the series. The story could go anywhere, but those are the words of the lead writer at the time, for any who are interested.
He actually doesn't say that at all.
He says could they be the Old Gods?Possibly...then he explains from an in game point of view why your random guy would reject the idea.
Well, on the Flemeth = Andraste = Dumat theory, we know she turns into a dragon, we know she was betrayed, and in the temple of Sacred Ashes we see a mural to her in the final battle with Corypheus.
Maybe they just got a few details wrong over time.
Oh really....
Oh really....
Spoiler
He actually doesn't say that at all.
He says could they be the Old Gods?Possibly...then he explains from an in game point of view why your random guy would reject the idea.
The new dlc gives his statement some validation.
I think it would be a hilarious twist if the nutters at Haven weren't quite as wrong as we thought after all.
oh, they are still wrong.
Personally, I'm more partial to the idea that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones
I believed this too when playing DA:O, but since Inquisition, I'm not so certain. Cassandra's banter with Solas regarding the Old Gods possibly being pets to more powerful entities and Morrigan's claim (after drinking from the well) that Corypheus was attempting to replicate the "gods of old" when he imbued a dragon with his essence makes me believe in the 'Old Gods as the Creators' pets' theory in which each creator had a powerful dragon minion imbued with part of their soul. Kieran could thus be Flemeth's attempt to free the essence of one of her comrades (possibly Ghilan'nain who I believe to be the equivalent of Urthemiel) from the taint.
I do not believe that the Old Gods were the ones responsible for sending Corypheus et al. to the Black City: I believe that that was a ploy by the Forgotten Ones to bring the taint into the mortal world and that they were manipulating the magisters by posing as Old Gods or Corypheus simply believed that the voices he was hearing were those of Dumat even when they weren't. The Forgotten Ones are certainly linked to the taint in some way: Andruil appears to have become tainted after hunting them in the Void (which was worshipped by a Nevarran cult that revered the blight). This would suggest that they are the reason that the Golden City was blackened and the ones behind the original red lyrium as discovered in the Primeval Thaig in DA2. Their goal is to spread the taint and battle the creators who are their old enemies (by corrupting their dragon pets and turning them against them and by tainting their eluvians). Interestingly, Corypheus' "claw of Dumat" statue is identical to statues found in the Primeval Thaig. In the codex entry on said statue, it specifically mentions that Corypheus at the time he brought it into his estate was hearing whispers in his sleep, and yet after he was corrupted and separated from this statue, he hears nothing (as stated by him during Calpernia's quest).
So methinks that this 'claw of Dumat' has nothing to do with Dumat but is in fact a conduit from which the Forgotten Ones can issue commands to mortals - just as they did to their followers in the Primeval Thaig.
I believed this too when playing DA:O, but since Inquisition, I'm not so certain. Cassandra's banter with Solas regarding the Old Gods possibly being pets to more powerful entities and Morrigan's claim (after drinking from the well) that Corypheus was attempting to replicate the "gods of old" when he imbued a dragon with his essence makes me believe in the 'Old Gods as the Creators' pets' theory in which each creator had a powerful dragon minion imbued with part of their soul. Kieran could thus be Flemeth's attempt to free the essence of one of her comrades (possibly Ghilan'nain who I believe to be the equivalent of Urthemiel) from the taint.
Solas told her a hard no to that and Morrigan mean the replication was the binding of a power soul to the dragon. Or a strong being bounded to a dragon. The Hakkon dlc hints to this.
I do not believe that the Old Gods were the ones responsible for sending Corypheus et al. to the Black City: I believe that that was a ploy by the Forgotten Ones to bring the taint into the mortal world and that they were manipulating the magisters by posing as Old Gods or Corypheus simply believed that the voices he was hearing were those of Dumat even when they weren't. The Forgotten Ones are certainly linked to the taint in some way: Andruil appears to have become tainted after hunting them in the Void (which was worshipped by a Nevarran cult that revered the blight). This would suggest that they are the reason that the Golden City was blackened and the ones behind the original red lyrium as discovered in the Primeval Thaig in DA2. Their goal is to spread the taint and battle the creators who are their old enemies (by corrupting their dragon pets and turning them against them and by tainting their eluvians). Interestingly, Corypheus' "claw of Dumat" statue is identical to statues found in the Primeval Thaig. In the codex entry on said statue, it specifically mentions that Corypheus at the time he brought it into his estate was hearing whispers in his sleep, and yet after he was corrupted and separated from this statue, he hears nothing (as stated by him during Calpernia's quest).
So methinks that this 'claw of Dumat' has nothing to do with Dumat but is in fact a conduit from which the Forgotten Ones can issue commands to mortals - just as they did to their followers in the Primeval Thaig.
I don't think that. I think that what ever want the black city to be opened up live in the black city. I believe the taint is a powerful geas like the well of sorrows and it can bind it self to these so called "old god" to make an archdemon. The darkspawn are just living beings warped by this geas to cause a blight to try to open a way through the veil to the black city by weakening the veil with all the deaths it cause the the corrupted and uncorropted(the comics show that Darkspawn blood is extremely potent in weakening the vail.) That Cory was still under this geas and does not know it and feed his want to go the black city but with a warp ideal like indoctrination from ME does. The red templers are like that as well as the Architect.
I think Inquisition confirms that all the elven gods are false gods who were just powerful spirits/elves. They existed before Tevinter, fell to internal strife before Tevinter, and were sealed away before Tevinter. Then Tevinter moved in and scavenged the magic from the elven ruins.
There is something very exceptional about the elven gods however in that (according to the Ancient Elven and Dalish lore that we know) they appear to have been highly creative and had a transformative effect on elven society. Spirits are incapable of advanced creativity - the Fade is merely a reflection of what they see in the physical world, so it would surprise me if a powerful spirit entered the world and started teaching everyone brand new ideas that nobody had thought of previously. Ancient Elven society was so advanced in its understanding of magic and the Fade that any being that they considered gods had to have been exceptionally powerful - they probably weren't gods in the monotheistic sense (omnipotent and omniscient), but they certainly match many of the polytheistic gods of the majority of real world human religions.
There is something very exceptional about the elven gods however in that (according to the Ancient Elven and Dalish lore that we know) they appear to have been highly creative and had a transformative effect on elven society. Spirits are incapable of advanced creativity - the Fade is merely a reflection of what they see in the physical world, so it would surprise me if a powerful spirit entered the world and started teaching everyone brand new ideas that nobody had thought of previously. Ancient Elven society was so advanced in its understanding of magic and the Fade that any being that they considered gods had to have been exceptionally powerful - they probably weren't gods in the monotheistic sense (omnipotent and omniscient), but they certainly match many of the polytheistic gods of the majority of real world human religions.
Aka.. We make our own gods. The Hakkon dlc hints at this as well.
Jaws of Hakkon explains the nature of great dragons. They are high dragons possessed by an spirit. Hakkon can even speak during the DLC. So, what are the old gods, if not something similar? There is a high possiblity Old gods are high dragons possessed with the soul of an elven god, maybe even the forgotten ones. That would make some sense when you consider the hints we get.
The old gods attract the darkspawn to them because they "sing". But why would that song affect the darkspawn? Unless they already have some sort of connection. The lore we find in Inquisition says that the forgotten ones dwelled in a place called the Void, the same place Andruil went, and if speculations are true, were she first found the taint, thus bringing the blight to the world. So that's why the old gods could attract darkspawn to them, because they have this connection with the taint.
I believe you are entirely wrong about the Old Gods. For one, you are completely misinterpreting what Morrigan meant by emulating the Old Gods. Placing a piece of himself in a Dragon and commanding it was Corypheus' way of mocking the old gods, because they were dragons, thus placing himself above them.I believed this too when playing DA:O, but since Inquisition, I'm not so certain. Cassandra's banter with Solas regarding the Old Gods possibly being pets to more powerful entities and Morrigan's claim (after drinking from the well) that Corypheus was attempting to replicate the "gods of old" when he imbued a dragon with his essence makes me believe in the 'Old Gods as the Creators' pets' theory in which each creator had a powerful dragon minion imbued with part of their soul. Kieran could thus be Flemeth's attempt to free the essence of one of her comrades (possibly Ghilan'nain who I believe to be the equivalent of Urthemiel) from the taint.
I do not believe that the Old Gods were the ones responsible for sending Corypheus et al. to the Black City: I believe that that was a ploy by the Forgotten Ones to bring the taint into the mortal world and that they were manipulating the magisters by posing as Old Gods or Corypheus simply believed that the voices he was hearing were those of Dumat even when they weren't. The Forgotten Ones are certainly linked to the taint in some way: Andruil appears to have become tainted after hunting them in the Void (which was worshipped by a Nevarran cult that revered the blight). This would suggest that they are the reason that the Golden City was blackened and the ones behind the original red lyrium as discovered in the Primeval Thaig in DA2. Their goal is to spread the taint and battle the creators who are their old enemies (by corrupting their dragon pets and turning them against them and by tainting their eluvians). Interestingly, Corypheus' "claw of Dumat" statue is identical to statues found in the Primeval Thaig. In the codex entry on said statue, it specifically mentions that Corypheus at the time he brought it into his estate was hearing whispers in his sleep, and yet after he was corrupted and separated from this statue, he hears nothing (as stated by him during Calpernia's quest).
So methinks that this 'claw of Dumat' has nothing to do with Dumat but is in fact a conduit from which the Forgotten Ones can issue commands to mortals - just as they did to their followers in the Primeval Thaig.
To OP the old gods are the horses of the Creators.
To OP the old gods are the horses of the Creators.
..Which they are not at all via Solas.
"Dumat" and co could be some elves who were still in uthenera and wanted to free their Gods from the Golden City.
In the temple of Dirthamen , the priests were very distressed by the disappearence of their God.
If those in the temple of Mythal survived , and Solas survived , why not others?
"Dumat" and co could be some elves who were still in uthenera and wanted to free their Gods from the Golden City.
In the temple of Dirthamen , the priests were very distressed by the disappearence of their God.
If those in the temple of Mythal survived , and Solas survived , why not others?
because a sealed elf can't be looked at and be mistaken to be a dragon.
I believe you are entirely wrong about the Old Gods. For one, you are completely misinterpreting what Morrigan meant by emulating the Old Gods. Placing a piece of himself in a Dragon and commanding it was Corypheus' way of mocking the old gods, because they were dragons, thus placing himself above them.
Her knowledge from the Well of Sorrows is what informs her about Corypheus' weakness - they're aware of what Corypheus was doing and they fear what he has become. They themselves are familiar with Corypheus' technique which leads me to believe that this was a magic pioneered by the ancient elves.
..Which they are not at all via Solas.
Solas repeatedly lies to the Inquisition throughout the game: the Dalish were certainly correct when they branded him a trickster god! I'd take most of what he says with a large grain of salt.
because a sealed elf can't be looked at and be mistaken to be a dragon.
If Mythal can, why not the rest? In fact, other codexes about the Forgotten Ones suggest all of the pantheon could assume dragon-form.
If Mythal can, why not the rest? In fact, other codexes about the Forgotten Ones suggest all of the pantheon could assume dragon-form.
And Solas show they are too weak to do that after that long sleep.
because a sealed elf can't be looked at and be mistaken to be a dragon.
???
When the elves are in uthenera they can wander the Fade.
The first Tevinter dreamers met something in the Fade , and assumed it was Dumat.
They were already worshipping dragons and animals before the whole Old Gods business , and they thought their dead heroes were reborn as dragon.
They just assumed what they met would look like a dragon.
Her knowledge from the Well of Sorrows is what informs her about Corypheus' weakness - they're aware of what Corypheus was doing and they fear what he has become. They themselves are familiar with Corypheus' technique which leads me to believe that this was a magic pioneered by the ancient elves.
Solas repeatedly lies to the Inquisition throughout the game: the Dalish were certainly correct when they branded him a trickster god! I'd take most of what he says with a large grain of salt.
About the first part: That would make sense, as the effect of Corypheus' soul being released from his dragon looks the same as when we see Flemeth do it.
About the second part: Solas actually almost never lies. At best, he lies through omission, and at worst, half-truths. That's what makes him such an effective trickster.
And Solas show they are too weak to do that after that long sleep.
But we're not talking about after a long sleep, are we?
Her knowledge from the Well of Sorrows is what informs her about Corypheus' weakness - they're aware of what Corypheus was doing and they fear what he has become. They themselves are familiar with Corypheus' technique which leads me to believe that this was a magic pioneered by the ancient elves.
Solas repeatedly lies to the Inquisition throughout the game: the Dalish were certainly correct when they branded him a trickster god! I'd take most of what he says with a large grain of salt.
1.You still misinterpreting it. Nothing shows or states what he is doing he got to the elves of old. She makes it clear it's not a true archdemon very much so. It's an imitation and only that.
2.He miss directs and give half truths and he only really lies about who he is and the source of his info. that does not mean what he say is not true. Sorry, but If Solas says they weren't pets they weren't pets.
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