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[leaguer of one]

???

 

When the elves are in uthenera they can wander the Fade.

The first Tevinter dreamers met something in the Fade , and assumed it was Dumat.

They were already worshipping dragons and animals before the whole Old Gods business , and they thought their dead heroes were reborn as dragon.

They just assumed what they met would look like a dragon.

You don't know do you? 

The grey wardens know were all the old gods are. That means the old gods can be physically met. It's clear they got this info form teventor of old. just because they met in the fade does not mean they never found were they slumbered.

[leaguer of one]

But we're not talking about after a long sleep, are we?

1000 years is not a long sleep?

[Dai Grepher]

If you played the Hakkon dlc you can see they are not.

 

Note, there is a shrine of Razikale in the dlc...

 

Right near were a bunch of people know how to bound so called "gods" to Dragons, Bears and people......

 

Coincidence I think not.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.

 

I don't deny that they tried to reach out to Razikale. I'm just questioning who they actually spoke to at some point in time or another. I don't see any proof that Razikale was female. Some worshipers referring to Razikale as such is not proof.

[Handsome Jack]

Don't forget Draconis.

 

Dumat, to me, is the big bad of the whole thing. He's what Melkor is to Tolkien, Voldemort is to Potter, Palpatine is to Star Wars, etc. etc. There's no higher evil and every problem in the world can be traced back to him one way or another. That's all the identity he needs, and it makes him pretty awesome.

[BansheeOwnage]

1000 years is not a long sleep?

I used italics for emphasis. My point was that we're not talking about after sleeping, we're talking about during sleeping. It doesn't really matter anyway.

[In Exile]

Solas repeatedly lies to the Inquisition throughout the game: the Dalish were certainly correct when they branded him a trickster god! I'd take most of what he says with a large grain of salt.

 

Solas only lies about one thing: what he saw in the Fade vs. what he saw first-hand (and then not always). Otherwise, he just omits how comically complicit he is in everything. 

[leaguer of one]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.

 

I don't deny that they tried to reach out to Razikale. I'm just questioning who they actually spoke to at some point in time or another. I don't see any proof that Razikale was female. Some worshipers referring to Razikale as such is not proof.

So the people who met Razikale are wrong....Funny logic. 

[leaguer of one]

I used italics for emphasis. My point was that we're not talking about after sleeping, we're talking about during sleeping. It doesn't really matter anyway.

But they can still physically meet.

[Handsome Jack]

Well, on the Flemeth = Andraste = Dumat theory, we know she turns into a dragon, we know she was betrayed, and in the temple of Sacred Ashes we see a mural to her in the final battle with Corypheus.

Maybe they just got a few details wrong over time.

 

I can buy the "Andraste was Dumat" theory, but I can't buy these "Flemeth is an Old God" theories, unless she/he/it's meant to be Draconis, the fabled 8th Old God not mentioned in Tevinter records after being censored. Flemeth certainly isn't Dumat; Flemeth clearly fears the Blight and the Darkspawn, especially in Origins, and clearly wants it stopped. Were Flemeth Dumat, or were Dumat back on Thedas at all, I think all of Thedasian society would've been wiped out by now. Very, very quickly, and don't think Flemeth would be worried about the Blight overtaking everything, unless Flemeth IS Dumat trying to turn a new leaf for even more sinister purposes. Even then it seems odd that the cast of Origins could beat Flemeth relatively easily if it was in fact Dumat himself.

 

Because remember that  over 1/2 of all Humans, Elves, and Dwarves were killed by him in the First Blight. You don't **** with Dumat.

[Dai Grepher]

He actually doesn't say that at all.

He says could they be the Old Gods?Possibly...then he explains from an in game point of view why your random guy would reject the idea.

 

No, he wrote that they could have possibly been based on the elven gods, and then he refutes even that idea.

[leaguer of one]

Don't forget Draconis.

 

Dumat, to me, is the big bad of the whole thing. He's what Melkor is to Tolkien, Voldemort is to Potter, Palpatine is to Star Wars, etc. etc. There's no higher evil and every problem in the world can be traced back to him one way or another. That's all the identity he needs, and it makes him pretty awesome.

I don't think so. who ever is the big bady is what ever is trapped in the black city.

[Dai Grepher]

So the people who met Razikale are wrong....Funny logic. 

 

And who ever said they met Razikale? They only claim to have heard Razikale speak to them.

 

Clearly they never actually saw Razikale. If they had, then they would understand why Razikale was now silent. Because Razikale is sealed underground.

[Reznore57]

You don't know do you? 

The grey wardens know were all the old gods are. That means the old gods can be physically met. It's clear they got this info form teventor of old. just because they met in the fade does not mean they never found were they slumbered.

 

The GW can hear the song of the Old Gods just like the darkspawn?

[Handsome Jack]

I don't think so. who ever is the big bady is what ever is trapped in the black city.

 

Whatever the wild and wacky world of Bioware's inept writing tells, I'm still banking on Flemeth being Draconis.

 

Draconis was likely stricken from record because he alone stood against the evil wishes of the other Sinister Seven, so the Old Gods marked him a traitor-god and had him removed from all record. In this way, it would explain why Flemeth has an affinity for the Taint, Blights, and Darkspawn, and has such knowledge of the Old Gods, yet isn't as powerful as his older Old God counterparts.

 

It would also explain why Flemeth isn't imprisoned, since Draconis, betraying the other seven Gods, would never have been punished and cast down in the earth. Draconis seems like he would've been the good guy.

[BansheeOwnage]

The GW can hear the song of the Old Gods just like the darkspawn?

Yes. Also, it may emanate from lyrium near the Archdemons.

[Handsome Jack]

The GW can hear the song of the Old Gods just like the darkspawn?

 

The Grey Wardens tried to lead a Deep Roads expedition to slay one of the Old Gods before it became tainted. They failed badly, and survivors mentioned that the "Song" of the Old God was extremely loud near its physical prison.

[Dai Grepher]

There is something very exceptional about the elven gods however in that (according to the Ancient Elven and Dalish lore that we know) they appear to have been highly creative and had a transformative effect on elven society. Spirits are incapable of advanced creativity - the Fade is merely a reflection of what they see in the physical world, so it would surprise me if a powerful spirit entered the world and started teaching everyone brand new ideas that nobody had thought of previously. Ancient Elven society was so advanced in its understanding of magic and the Fade that any being that they considered gods had to have been exceptionally powerful - they probably weren't gods in the monotheistic sense (omnipotent and omniscient), but they certainly match many of the polytheistic gods of the majority of real world human religions.

 

Creativity is one thing, magic is another. Fade spirits know about magic because magic is what they see in the Fade all the time. So copy/pasting Fade stuff to the real world is kind of what they do.

 

The elven gods were either powerful Fade spirits or just mages, or mages possessed by powerful Fade spirits. The longer spirits remain in the real world, the more they learn and the more creative they become. This is especially true if possessing a body that they can use to learn from. It's like a link to the physical.
 

[leaguer of one]

And who ever said they met Razikale? They only claim to have heard Razikale speak to them.

 

Clearly they never actually saw Razikale. If they had, then they would understand why Razikale was now silent. Because Razikale is sealed underground.

That  was a tevintor prist hood who worship "her" for years. the tevintor of old who the wardens got the location of the old gods from.....

 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Razikale

 

Sorry, but it's clear it not just a guess.

[leaguer of one]

Whatever the wild and wacky world of Bioware's inept writing tells, I'm still banking on Flemeth being Draconis.

 

Draconis was likely stricken from record because he alone stood against the evil wishes of the other Sinister Seven, so the Old Gods marked him a traitor-god and had him removed from all record. In this way, it would explain why Flemeth has an affinity for the Taint, Blights, and Darkspawn, and has such knowledge of the Old Gods, yet isn't as powerful as his older Old God counterparts.

 

It would also explain why Flemeth isn't imprisoned, since Draconis, betraying the other seven Gods, would never have been punished and cast down in the earth. Draconis seems like he would've been the good guy.

Except for the fact the story says she's Mythal and the Mythal was the one who was murdered and betrayed.

[Handsome Jack]

That  was a tevintor prist hood who worship "her" for years. the tevintor of old who the wardens got the location of the old gods from.....

 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Razikale

 

Sorry, but it's clear it not just a guess.

 

I'd discredit Razikale being a female simply because there was no indication he wasn't a he in Origins, which to me is the baseline and Word of God for canon. Inquisition randomly making Razikale a woman to satiate the gratuitous whining of SJWs and progressives doesn't mean Razikale is actually a female. It means Bioware is losing their writing skills and very quickly.

[Bad King]

1.You still misinterpreting it. Nothing shows or states what he is doing he got to the elves of old. She makes it clear it's not a true archdemon very much so. It's an imitation and only that.

2.He miss directs and give half truths and he only really lies about  who he is and the source of his info. that does not mean what he say is not true. Sorry, but If Solas says they weren't pets they weren't pets.

 

1. As I just stated, Morrigan's revelations about the nature of Corypheus' dragon come from the knowledge from past ages garnered from the Well of Sorrows. The old disciples of Mythal knew what he was doing and feared him for it. The only way they could know this and understand its ramifications is if said art was practised in Elvhenan.

2. He lies and misdirects when he decides what the Inquisition should and shouldn't know. His character stating "I wouldn't go that far" after Cassandra suggests that Archdemons were pets of long dead beings shouldn't be considered a 100% canon denial of this idea by the game particularly when the character who says it is known to mislead when it suits him/his motives. 

[leaguer of one]

The GW can hear the song of the Old Gods just like the darkspawn?

Not in a way it can make sense.. By the time it comes close they would be too mindless to tell anyone what it means.

[Handsome Jack]

Except for the fact the story says she's Mythal and the Mythal was the one who was murdered and betrayed.

 

If you believe the Elven Theology and everything Flemeth says.

 

Play Origins sometime. You'll learn quick that Flemeth is a deceptive SOB.

[Bad King]

Creativity is one thing, magic is another. Fade spirits know about magic because magic is what they see in the Fade all the time. So copy/pasting Fade stuff to the real world is kind of what they do.

 

The elven gods were either powerful Fade spirits or just mages, or mages possessed by powerful Fade spirits. The longer spirits remain in the real world, the more they learn and the more creative they become. This is especially true if possessing a body that they can use to learn from. It's like a link to the physical.
 

 

The truth is, we don't actually know what the elven gods are. And the various deeds that they are supposed to have performed don't sound like the sorts of things that spirits would be capable of, such as teaching people practical (not necessarily magical) skills that would improve their lives in the real world.

[leaguer of one]

I'd discredit Razikale being a female simply because there was no indication he wasn't a he in Origins, which to me is the baseline and Word of God for canon. Inquisition randomly making Razikale a woman to satiate the gratuitous whining of SJWs and progressives doesn't mean Razikale is actually a female. It means Bioware is losing their writing skills and very quickly.

ok....

here.