211 réponses à ce sujet

[Handsome Jack]

ok....

here.

 

Nice post. Very informative and constructive to the topic at hand.

 

 

[leaguer of one]

If you believe the Elven Theology and everything Flemeth says.

 

 

Yes. I believes the person who knows the most about themselves know the truth about themselves and tell the truth about themselves.

 

not hard logic.

[Handsome Jack]

Yes. I believes the person who knows the most about themselves know the truth about themselves and tell the truth about themselves.

 

not hard logic.

 

Because everyone always tells the truth about themselves all the time.

[leaguer of one]

1. As I just stated, Morrigan's revelations about the nature of Corypheus' dragon come from the knowledge from past ages garnered from the Well of Sorrows. The old disciples of Mythal knew what he was doing and feared him for it. The only way they could know this and understand its ramifications is if said art was practised in Elvhenan.

2. He lies and misdirects when he decides what the Inquisition should and shouldn't know. His character stating "I wouldn't go that far" after Cassandra suggests that Archdemons were pets of long dead beings shouldn't be considered a 100% canon denial of this idea by the game particularly when the character who says it is known to mislead when it suits him/his motives. 

1.I'm not say she did not say it. I'm say your not getting what the meaning of the statement is. it's not what you think. Your issue is not the source, it's the translation.

2.Sorry, but as others pointed out he never really lies. He misdirects, gives half truths, give false sources, and manipulates. Sorry, he said they are not pets...it's means they are not pets.

[leaguer of one]

Because everyone always tells the truth about themselves all the time.

being that she has not reason to lie and she has proof that she is (which are the voices from the well of Mythal which only Mythal can control)what she says then how can you say she is lying. And even they you have no proof with your assumption.

[Dai Grepher]

That  was a tevintor prist hood who worship "her" for years. the tevintor of old who the wardens got the location of the old gods from.....

 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Razikale

 

Sorry, but it's clear it not just a guess.

 

It isn't clear at all. First, Razikale's main temple is in Minrathous, not the Frostback Basin. The worshipers in the basin were the long distance sort. Meaning, Razikale was physically near Minrathous (or possibly Western Approach if that vague message indicates anything), while the worshipers in question were hundreds of miles away. So there is no proof that they actually met Razikale or knew its gender.

 

Second, I explained the second inscription already. The reference to "her" could in fact be Dumat, the Dragon of Silence. And because of Dumat's silence, the worshipers then turn to Razikale for guidance.

 

Third, the "her" they refer to might not even be Razikale. They might believe it is Razikale, but it could be some spirit, like the kind the Chasind speak to all the time. Ya know, the kind that impersonate their gods? Or the "her" they refer to could be Razikale's priestess, which is depicted as female on a stone carving.

[Lumix19]

I'd discredit Razikale being a female simply because there was no indication he wasn't a he in Origins, which to me is the baseline and Word of God for canon. Inquisition randomly making Razikale a woman to satiate the gratuitous whining of SJWs and progressives doesn't mean Razikale is actually a female. It means Bioware is losing their writing skills and very quickly.

Wait what? I'm pretty sure nobody was whining about how all the Old Gods were male so your comment literally makes no sense. How does her being female change anything about the Dragon Age lore? There was no indication in Origins that the Old Gods were all male, so Razikale didn't "become" female, she always was. I'm not sure whether to take this comment as misogynistic or just overly paranoid about so called SJWs.

[Dai Grepher]

I'd discredit Razikale being a female simply because there was no indication he wasn't a he in Origins, which to me is the baseline and Word of God for canon. Inquisition randomly making Razikale a woman to satiate the gratuitous whining of SJWs and progressives doesn't mean Razikale is actually a female. It means Bioware is losing their writing skills and very quickly.

 

Okay okay, lets calm down here. Inquisition doesn't necessarily call Razikale a female in the first place. The texts could be referring to something else entirely. The ones writing the texts, from the in-universe perspective, could actually be mistaken by thinking all the old gods are female because they think they are high dragons, or those characters could have been speaking to someone other than Razikale the whole time, such as a random Fade spirit, or even Razikale's priestess.
 

[Dai Grepher]

The truth is, we don't actually know what the elven gods are. And the various deeds that they are supposed to have performed don't sound like the sorts of things that spirits would be capable of, such as teaching people practical (not necessarily magical) skills that would improve their lives in the real world.

 

True, but Solas is confirmed to be one of them, and he said himself that he doesn't think the elven gods were gods in the true sense of the word/concept.

 

So I am at least ruling them out as god-like beings. Also, them being the old gods doesn't match up. From there, they could be anything, but most likely powerful mages and/or Fade spirits.
 

[Lumix19]

It isn't clear at all. First, Razikale's main temple is in Minrathous, not the Frostback Basin. The worshipers in the basin were the long distance sort. Meaning, Razikale was physically near Minrathous (or possibly Western Approach if that vague message indicates anything), while the worshipers in question were hundreds of miles away. So there is no proof that they actually met Razikale or knew its gender.

 

Second, I explained the second inscription already. The reference to "her" could in fact be Dumat, the Dragon of Silence. And because of Dumat's silence, the worshipers then turn to Razikale for guidance.

 

Third, the "her" they refer to might not even be Razikale. They might believe it is Razikale, but it could be some spirit, like the kind the Chasind speak to all the time. Ya know, the kind that impersonate their gods? Or the "her" they refer to could be Razikale's priestess, which is depicted as female on a stone carving.

Apart from the inscriptions, the Codex entry: Mouth of Echoes seems to indicate that the worshipers had heard her voice before. And why would something impersonate her? This "impersonation theory" is far too complicated. It would involve Razikale first disappearing and then a group of worshipers stumbling across an impersonation (whether it be dragon or spirit) and then believing that this was the true Razikale (despite this new form being female) before this new form mysteriously disappears again. It's far to convoluted just to justify the idea that Razikale is not female.

 

Edit: I would also point out that Eluvia is often related to Razikale, the constellation of the young woman with her head in the clouds?

[leaguer of one]

It isn't clear at all. First, Razikale's main temple is in Minrathous, not the Frostback Basin. The worshipers in the basin were the long distance sort. Meaning, Razikale was physically near Minrathous (or possibly Western Approach if that vague message indicates anything), while the worshipers in question were hundreds of miles away. So there is no proof that they actually met Razikale or knew its gender.

 

Second, I explained the second inscription already. The reference to "her" could in fact be Dumat, the Dragon of Silence. And because of Dumat's silence, the worshipers then turn to Razikale for guidance.

 

Third, the "her" they refer to might not even be Razikale. They might believe it is Razikale, but it could be some spirit, like the kind the Chasind speak to all the time. Ya know, the kind that impersonate their gods? Or the "her" they refer to could be Razikale's priestess, which is depicted as female on a stone carving.

just because the main temple in in one place does not mean it's nearest to the resident of the god. if that were so the chantry would be in fereldin instead of Orlias. The main temple being there could be there because it's closer to the seat of power of tevintor. You don't think it's odd the a temple of a old god is here that connected to permanente  ice cave where a dragon god is sealed? Soeey, but the main temple does not mean being some where else does not mean this old god is not in the basen.

Also..http://dragonage.wik...r_Inscription_2

"Silence has fallen. Those who call out to her in dreams hear nothing. Our letters to the capital go unanswered. No supplies have been sent, and our messengers do not return from the north. We are alone. Razikale, O Shadow Which Obscures the Path Ahead, deliver your faithful, save us from the silence which devours."

 

 

And they refur  to the old god of mystery as her...it's clear.

 

And third, it very clear it's the old of mystery...

 

Line form line...

"To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel. Dragon of Mystery, bestow upon your faithful servants your ineffable truth. Grant us eyes to pierce the darkness and souls to bear the wounds of your labyrinth."

[Handsome Jack]

Wait what? I'm pretty sure nobody was whining about how all the Old Gods were male so your comment literally makes no sense. How does her being female change anything about the Dragon Age lore? There was no indication in Origins that the Old Gods were all male, so Razikale didn't "become" female, she always was. I'm not sure whether to take this comment as misogynistic or just overly paranoid about so called SJWs.

 

There was no reason at all to suddenly change Razikale from a male to a female. Considering the criticism of forced SJW "inclusivity" in Inquisition, it's safe to say Razikale's retcon was due to such SJW nonsense.

[Lumix19]

There was no reason at all to suddenly change Razikale from a male to a female. Considering the criticism of forced SJW "inclusivity" in Inquisition, it's safe to say Razikale's retcon was due to such SJW nonsense.

When was it ever stated that Razikale was male? And this SJW criticism seems like a bunch of whining from a fringe sector of the community so you'll excuse me if I don't take it seriously.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Oh no, one of seven dragon gods that's stuck underground and is no longer worshipped might actually be female! The world is ending! /s

 

More on-topic, I hope they reveal what connection the OGs have to the Creators (if any, or at least reveal more about them - like what they looked like, how they acted, etc.) eventually. We don't really know all too much about them atm. I'd speculate but the only theory I had was that they were the Creators' pets but it looks like Solas shot that one down...

 

 

There was no reason at all to suddenly change Razikale from a male to a female. Considering the criticism of forced SJW "inclusivity" in Inquisition, it's safe to say Razikale's retcon was due to such SJW nonsense.

 When did they directly state she was male? Last time I checked... they didn't. 

[leaguer of one]

There was no reason at all to suddenly change Razikale from a male to a female. Considering the criticism of forced SJW "inclusivity" in Inquisition, it's safe to say Razikale's retcon was due to such SJW nonsense.

People, just ignore this guy.

[Handsome Jack]

When did they directly state she was male? Last time I checked... they didn't. 

 

In Origins he was.

 

Call it whining if you want, but the proper term is "SJW pandering" and "progressivist revisionism".

[Lumix19]

In Origins he was.

 

Call it whining if you want, but the proper term is "SJW pandering" and "progressivist revisionism".

Because obviously social justice is something abhorrent. Regardless there's nothing in Origins that indicates that Razikale was male but you're free to provide a link if you think I've missed something. Otherwise stop spouting rubbish please.

[Handsome Jack]

Because obviously social justice is something abhorrent. Regardless there's nothing in Origins that indicates that Razikale was male but you're free to provide a link if you think I've missed something. Otherwise stop spouting rubbish please.

 

More abhorrent than your mind could comprehend if you do your research.

 

I'm telling you though, there is a codex or piece of dialogue somewhere that explicitly states each Old God, and they're all referred to as males. It's been a long time since I've played an unmodded Origins playthrough, so I'm not entirely sure which codex or dialogue states it, but I know it's there.

[leaguer of one]

Because obviously social justice is something abhorrent. Regardless there's nothing in Origins that indicates that Razikale was male but you're free to provide a link if you think I've missed something. Otherwise stop spouting rubbish please.

just ignore the guy. there is no need to give any power to his statements.

[Lumix19]

More abhorrent than your mind could comprehend if you do your research.

 

I'm telling you though, there is a codex or piece of dialogue somewhere that explicitly states each Old God, and they're all referred to as males. It's been a long time since I've played an unmodded Origins playthrough, so I'm not entirely sure which codex or dialogue states it, but I know it's there.

No offense but you sound like a child.

[Handsome Jack]

No offense but you sound like a child.

 

How's that?

 

just ignore the guy. there is no need to give any power to his statements.

 

Thanks babe.

 

[leaguer of one]

No offense but you sound like a child.

Why do you thing I replied to jack with the pic at the top of the page?

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

Thanks babe.

 

 

*Calls a 240 pound black guy a "babe"

[Lumix19]

How's that?

Claiming evidence without producing it.

[Handsome Jack]

Claiming evidence without producing it.

 

I'd produce it if I could, though it'd be difficult to scour through all of Origins to find a single mention of an Old God's gender. Tell me this though: if all the Old Gods ever mentioned so far are "hes", then what exactly is the point of making one a female? What is gained?