25 réponses à ce sujet

[grey_savant]

Bethany isn’t the worst character in the Dragon Age series. That’s as bold a claim as I can make, considering her personality starts and ends with a timid smile. The problem is that she’s given no nuance. A secret is often enough to enliven a character (think Blackwall’s past or Merrill’s blood magic), and ambivalence also creates depth: Bethany might’ve resented her older sister (as does Carver) while still respecting her enough to follow. Bethany’s guilt for being a mage apostate could also have been played up, and she could’ve tried to selflessly turn herself in to better the family, which would’ve made her sympathetic.

What she does have is a powerful role to play in the story of Dragon Age II. Keeping her alive and safe amidst persecution isn’t easy, and her fate can motivate the player’s actions through the later acts. If she survives, she has a beat of hatred toward her sister, which is a great touch but comes far too late. 

In the story climax, she may rejoin her sister to triumph together. Her powers in combat go a long way toward making her sympathetic, especially how she can synchronize moves with her sister for massive damage bonuses. Tearing away those synergies is hard to bear, and uniting the sisters again creates a powerful sense of resolution.

For the above reasons I would rank Bethany higher than other characters in Dragon Age who have more nuance but less story function. I don’t believe there’s ever a good reason to allow Zevran in the party, and once there he reveals his depth too late to be sympathetic. Also, the quest to recruit Fenris is so obscure that the players who’d be most interested in him might reasonably never find him. His absence isn't missed

 

[andy6915]

I prefer Carver, but disliking her more than Sebastian? How is that even possible? She's definitely not the worst to me. Anders, Sebastian, Velanna, and Justice are all worse than her.

[Sifr]

While I like Bethany, I think that the reason she's not got that much nuances is because like Carver, she lives in Hawke's shadow, but unlike Carver, she's entirely comfortable with not being the centre of attention and has no problem with their elder sibling calling the shots.

 

Aside from being a Mage and feeling that she'll never be able to have the life she wants because of it, she's not got that much conflict in terms of story and sadly she's given no real character arcs because she's offscreen (or dead) past Act 1. While she becomes bitter as a Warden and becomes more confident in herself as Circle Mage, it's still far less character evolution than Carver gets, even if he spends most of the game being a royal pain in the backside and complaining about something simply because Hawke suggested doing it.

[X Equestris]

I quite liked Bethany. Much more than Carver, Anders, Velanna, and Justice.

[Bob Walker]

I wasn't aware that Bethany was that unappreciated. I always thought that the general opinion was the opposite.

[Sifr]

I wasn't aware that Bethany was that unappreciated. I always thought that the general opinion was the opposite.

 

I don't think people hate her character, I think it's just that she has no real story compared to everyone else in the game, or even Carver?

[springacres]

^What Sifr said.  Even Sebastian, as bland as I find him, gets more of an arc than Bethany does.  At least with Carver, I get to hear the pushback and whining I remember from when my younger sister and I were growing up.  I like Bethany as a person, but as a character she seems almost too good to be true.

Modifié par springacres, 02 mai 2015 - 07:53 .

[andy6915]

^What Sifr said.  Even Sebastian, as bland as I find him, gets more of an arc than Bethany does.  At least with Carver, I get to hear the pushback and whining I remember from when my younger sister and I were growing up.  I like Bethany as a person, but as a character she seems almost too good to be true.

 

I see it more as having the same problem Jacob had in ME2. Both are very stable and normal characters who are very friendly and "good" in morality... In a colorful cast of people with weird ass backgrounds and/or something about them that stands out, and all of them having major baggage of some sort. This results in a likable but ultimately flat character who just doesn't stand out. It's not that they're bad, it's just that being the most normal people in a cast of abnormal people makes their normal-ness even more plain and boring than it probably would be.

 

And note that Carver has a point above her there. He doesn't have a weird background or something stand out about him, but he does have the "major baggage of some sort" aspect. That's why he's more interesting.

[grey_savant]

I think it's interesting that some people disliked Justice. I admit I only played Awakenings once, so my memory of him isn't distinct. As I recall, though, his character did have tension because he had his pressing goals while being in a body that was rapidly decaying. It was also fun meeting a demon that wasn't a deadly sin.

 

Oh, Anders. His character definitely has tension and a secret, but, yes, I'd include Bethany in my party at every chance over him. He even has more sympathy, having his friend turn tranquil, and he's helping the sick. But he creeped me out, so no.

[Jaison1986]

It's true Bethany doesn't add much to the story, mostly being passive and letting Hawke do all the big decisions. But I think her non confrontational nature is one of her biggest charms. With Fenris whining about mages and Danarius, Anders whining about templars and mages, Merrill doing one stupid mistake after another, Isabela being an backstabber, having Bethany being kind and supportive was an welcome change of pace. I just wanted companions that I could be friends with. Just have a nice talk without any over the top drama. And that made me greatly appreciate Bethany. I think she would even make for a great romance arc in Inquisition. She is similar to Josephine, but unlike her she haves an flashed out backstory to add to her character.

[KaiserShep]

I always considered found Bethany to be a welcome addition to the group. I rarely used Anders or Merrill in Act 1 because she was my rock solid mage, and was a must for me to bring in Legacy. I actually really liked her contribution to that quest, since her magic was always a point of frustration for her, so it was nice to see her response to Malcolm's words.

[grey_savant]

What a delight to play Legacy with Bethany. She related a story about some wisdom father told her. Snarky Hawke replied: “Oh father, you live on through what you’ve taught us. And in these bizarre magical devices.” Then, Hawke does the Carver jig to cheer up Bethany.

 

At the top of the tower against Corypheus, he had burninated two of my party members. The last two alive were of course the Hawkes, and they’d been separated by the wall of fire.  I decided I’d never defeat all those fade guardians without the family together for cross-class combos. I had the champion Rally to give Bethany Elemental Aegis. This combined with her natural high magic resistance allowed her to run through the inferno without being burned to a complete crisp. The Hawkes rejoined to take down the demons and the darkspawn magister, one combo at a time.

[andy6915]

What a delight to play Legacy with Bethany. She related a story about some wisdom father told her. Snarky Hawke replied: “Oh father, you live on through what you’ve taught us. And in these bizarre magical devices.” Then, Hawke does the Carver jig to cheer up Bethany.

 

At the top of the tower against Corypheus, he had burninated two of my party members. The last two alive were of course the Hawkes, and they’d been separated by the wall of fire.  I decided I’d never defeat all those fade guardians without the family together for cross-class combos. I had the champion Rally to give Bethany Elemental Aegis. This combined with her natural high magic resistance allowed her to run through the inferno without being burned to a complete crisp. The Hawkes rejoined to take down the demons and the darkspawn magister, one combo at a time.

 

My god does this happen to me often. Well, not that exactly... But similar. By that I mean it being Hawke and a sibling being the only ones left standing and kicking ass together. So often will Carver or Bethany be the my only allies left, and somehow we start putting up a better fight at the point where they're the only ones left than when the whole party was fighting. It happened many times in act 1 and both DLCs. It's really weird how often it happens. If I didn't know it was absolutely false, I would suspect there's a hidden script in the game's code that makes it so a party of just the 2 Hawke siblings somehow gives both of them a large stat boost. There's not though, which just makes it how bloody common it is even weirder.

[Andreas Amell]

Without Bethany the group would look like a gang of thugs.

[Dabrikishaw]

Whenever I see Bethany disliked, it's usually just her being considered uninteresting compared to Carver. I honestly like her more than Carver and wish that there was a way to play a mage and keep her without modding.

[Sifr]

Without Bethany the group would look like a gang of thugs.

 

Huh...

 

Fenris: Brooding elf with strange glowing tattooes and a sword larger than he is.

Varric: Dwarf merchant prince with huge crossbow and known associations with the Carta and Coterie.

Isabela: Pretty obvious she's a pirate.

Merrill: Elf with Dalish tattooes and suspicious cuts up her arms.

Anders: Isn't exactly hiding the whole "Rebel mage" thing particularly well, especially since he won't shut up about it.

Carver: Surly teen with a chip on his shoulder larger than the greatsword he's carrying.

 

Yeah, I'll have to admit that without Sebastian, Bethany or Aveline in our party, we don't really come across as that respectable half the time? Half the time when I travel with Aveline, I wonder if people on the street aren't assuming that we're just prisoners that she's escorting...?

 

[Jaison1986]

Huh...

 

Fenris: Brooding elf with strange glowing tattooes and a sword larger than he is.

Varric: Dwarf merchant prince with huge crossbow and known associations with the Carta and Coterie.

Isabela: Pretty obvious she's a pirate.

Merrill: Elf with Dalish tattooes and suspicious cuts up her arms.

Anders: Isn't exactly hiding the whole "Rebel mage" thing particularly well, especially since he won't shut up about it.

Carver: Surly teen with a chip on his shoulder larger than the greatsword he's carrying.

 

Yeah, I'll have to admit that without Sebastian, Bethany or Aveline in our party, we don't really come across as that respectable half the time? Half the time when I travel with Aveline, I wonder if people on the street aren't assuming that we're just prisoners that she's escorting...?

 

 

This reminds me of a banter with Aveline in Legacy. If you bring her along during act 3 she will say something like this "Hawke, you and I are only two people that could prevent any disaster from happening in Kirkwall, and now we both leave the city? Genious..."

 

Don't worry Aveline, trouble wouldn't dare to start without us being present.

[Sifr]

This reminds me of a banter with Aveline in Legacy. If you bring her along during act 3 she will say something like this "Hawke, you and I are only two people that could prevent any disaster from happening in Kirkwall, and now we both leave the city? Genious..."

 

Don't worry Aveline, trouble wouldn't dare to start without us being present.

 

Meanwhile in Kirkwall;

 

 

[Sah291]

I find the siblings are both more interesting paired with a Hawke that contrasts them somehow. So like diplo/sarcastic Hawke with Carver, and aggro/sarcastic with Beth.... But I think for both of them, especially for Bethany, their character arc revolves a lot around their relationship with Hawke, so some combinations are more interesting than others. For instance, I find the scene where Meredith tells Hawke about her sister is more dramatic if Hawke has doubts about protecting Bethany, or if you are a mage Hawke with a Templar Carver. Little things like that.

[SmilesJA]

I really like Bethany, but Carver is just a deeper character. 

[MisterJB]

 

You know, Bethany might be a lot darker than we give her credit for.

If you side with the Templars and she is in the Circle, there is this exchange:

 

"Orsino: The Maker has guided you all to your deaths.

Bethany: No! You said s/he wouldn't be hurt."

 

Ok, so Bethany was actually on board with sacrificing the surviving mages in a blood magic ritual to create an Harvester to kill the Templars? She just balked at killing Hawke?

WTF, little sister?

[Jaison1986]

 

 

You know, Bethany might be a lot darker than we give her credit for.

If you side with the Templars and she is in the Circle, there is this exchange:

 

"Orsino: The Maker has guided you all to your deaths.

Bethany: No! You said s/he wouldn't be hurt."

 

Ok, so Bethany was actually on board with sacrificing the surviving mages in a blood magic ritual to create an Harvester to kill the Templars? She just balked at killing Hawke?

WTF, little sister?

 

 

Orsino was likely talking about the templars, and he must have promissed Bethany he would at least spare Hawke. Bethany after all turns against Orsino once he turns into a abomination.

[dragonflight288]

One thing I really, really like about Betehany is that she's all for going in and wiping out the slavers in the Amell estate to track down the will because she makes it clear at the beginning of the quest that she does not trust Gamlen and knows he's hiding something so she wants to expose it.

 

Whereas Carver would rather let the matter be because he doesn't want to look back, and sees trying to regain the estate as running away...or something like that. I'm not really sure why Carver opposes it at first. 

[Ichigo13]

One thing I really, really like about Betehany is that she's all for going in and wiping out the slavers in the Amell estate to track down the will because she makes it clear at the beginning of the quest that she does not trust Gamlen and knows he's hiding something so she wants to expose it.

 

Whereas Carver would rather let the matter be because he doesn't want to look back, and sees trying to regain the estate as running away...or something like that. I'm not really sure why Carver opposes it at first. 

I think Carver opposes at first because he is in this teenage mood of " I need to find my own self and step away from Hawke's shadow". So he kind of wants to breark away from the past (and the memories from ferelden maybe) and start a new life I suppose. And I think he needs to achieve something alone with his own hands... and he doesn't want to hold on to the past and get back the amell estate. 

[Sah291]

I think Carver opposes at first because he is in this teenage mood of " I need to find my own self and step away from Hawke's shadow". So he kind of wants to breark away from the past (and the memories from ferelden maybe) and start a new life I suppose. And I think he needs to achieve something alone with his own hands... and he doesn't want to hold on to the past and get back the amell estate.

Carver wants to let go of the Amell name, and move on from the past instead of being tied down rebuilding a life he never knew. Bethany is the opposite and seems to want the estate so she can finally stop running and have a home. Which fits her character, considering how she willingly goes to the circle and wants to be "normal". She's tired of running and everybody sacrificing for her. But Carver is the one stuck making sacrifices and looking after mage Hawke, so he's less keen on it and thinks Hawke only cares becasuse he/she needs to hide from the Templars. It turns out Carver was probably right...Hawke loses everything in the end.