65 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden_Persona]

Last thing we need is more topics falsely claiming Inquisition to be a bad game. Labeling something a bad game is actually a pretty objective thing. Games with lots of bugs (inquisition had quite a few, but none were gamebreaking), underdeveloped level designs and poor gameplay mechanics that are near universally felt by the whole community. Overall games with no effort put into them. Bubsy 3D is a bad game, Inquisition is by no means a bad game, just a game that does things in ways you specifically don't care for. All the levels are beautiful, the combat is functional, about as functional as any other DA game, the cast is diverse and well balanced and the story missions are up to par with pretty much any DA or ME game. I don't care for the Jak and Daxter series, and in fact I personally found Jak 2 to be atrocious, but in no way do I consider those games to be bad. Heck, I personally find the Uncharted series to be boring, but once again they are in no way bad games.

 

The optional side content is just that, optional and not required to complete the game. My latest playthrough I did lasted me 50+ hours, ended around Lv20, and I didn't do any quests that didn't involve cave/ dungeon exploration, companion quests, or keep taking over, except where required for power which were all super easy and quick to do and on the way to my objective anyway. There's no way a person can play Inquisition and not see that Bioware put a lot of effort into it. Nothing it does makes it a "bad" game. It's even more laughable when BSNers try to pass it off as some sort of an abomination, like there's no middle road at all. A Bioware game can't seem  to have elements here or there that's badly designed without being considered an abomination. Thankfully BSN seems to be the only place where irrational hatred seems to be on the surplus. Ignore it if you want, the people who view games like ME3 and Inquisition as abominations are indeed the vocal minority.

 

As far as ME:N goes of course I don't want it to be Inquisition in space. If I wanted to play Inquisition I'd play Inquisition. Claiming ME:N is going to be Inquisition in space is as baseless as the fears that ME:N is going to become a generic first person shooter by people claiming ME's gameplay has become more generic with each game (despite ME1 having just as many generic gameplay elements) which I've also read (not coincidentally from BSN). The leak is hardly proof considering the way it plays on people's per-concieved expectations, and twisting the very few facts that have been released about ME:N into something admittedly plausible. Even if the leak were true it's way too vague to get any truly clear picture of the next game.

[RoboticWater]

Last thing we need is more topics falsely claiming Inquisition to be a bad game. Labeling something a bad game is actually a pretty objective thing. Games with lots of bugs (inquisition had quite a few, but none were gamebreaking), underdeveloped level designs and poor gameplay mechanics that are near universally felt by the whole community. Overall games with no effort put into them. Bubsy 3D is a bad game, Inquisition is by no means a bad game, just a game that does things in ways you specifically don't care for. All the levels are beautiful, the combat is functional, about as functional as any other DA game, the cast is diverse and well balanced and the story missions are up to par with pretty much any DA or ME game. I don't care for the Jak and Daxter series, and in fact I personally found Jak 2 to be atrocious, but in no way do I consider those games to be bad. Heck, I personally find the Uncharted series to be boring, but once again they are in no way bad games.

The optional side content is just that, optional and not required to complete the game. My latest playthrough I did lasted me 50+ hours, ended around Lv20, and I didn't do any quests that didn't involve cave/ dungeon exploration, companion quests, or keep taking over, except where required for power which were all super easy and quick to do and on the way to my objective anyway. There's no way a person can play Inquisition and not see that Bioware put a lot of effort into it. Nothing it does makes it a "bad" game. It's even more laughable when BSNers try to pass it off as some sort of an abomination, like there's no middle road at all. A Bioware game can't seem  to have elements here or there that's badly designed without being considered an abomination. Thankfully BSN seems to be the only place where irrational hatred seems to be on the surplus. Ignore it if you want, the people who view games like ME3 and Inquisition as abominations are indeed the vocal minority.

Though optional, fetch quests are still part of the game, and it's completely fair to critique the product as a whole for having them.
 
It's like reading a book filled with annotations, except they're all gibberish. Now you're stuck with a perfectly decent novel with scrawlings edging in from the margins. Even worse, you've been lead to believe that reading through this gibberish might actually give you some reward. My point is, bad design isn't easy to ignore, especially if there's some incentive to go through it. In extreme examples, even the most optional content begins to erode the whole experience, or at least become a great eyesore. 
 
I have no doubt that BioWare put a lot of effort into Inquisition, but just one loose end can dismantle the whole experience. Fetch quests don't make the rest of the game mechanics bad, they punch a hole in the brilliant balloon the other mechanics painstakingly put together. Any verisimilitude the game earned is slowly eaten away by lazy design. When I see the note commanding me to acquire heaps of bear meat, I don't see a starving village in need, I see game dev 10 hours before deadline frantically inserting as many quests as he could.
 
I think it's also reasonable to critique DA:I on how it could have easily been so much better. I'm not an expert on BioWare's quest making pipeline, but I'm fairly certain they could have had more meaningful content had they reduced their scope a little and stripped out the fetch quests. 

[SNascimento]

The intersting thing about Dragon Age Inquisition side quests is that it has the two extremes. It has utterly amazing secundary quests and terrible fetch quests which not only doesn't add nothing to the game but disrupts both the pace and the focus of the overall story. 

[Xerxes52]

Personally, I don't mind fetch quests if they have at least some relation to the main or side quest at hand, have a few decent cinematic scenes thrown in (at quest start, quest item found, quest item returned for example), and we get a good reward at the end. Also it helps if the gameplay is fun, since we will most likely have to drive to the quest item, fight through some ambient enemies, and then a horde of mooks once we pick up the item.

 

Also no jumping puzzles to reach said quest item.

[Degrees1991]

I would like more of a variety in missions in general. The game feels like a straight up shooter in 2 and 3 but with 1 you were investigating more. Still a lot of shooting want more like idk high jacking, hacking etc.

[Sion1138]

Oh, there will certainly be a lot of fluff.

[B.Shep]

Reduce their numbers. ME3 had too much fetch quests...

[Sion1138]

Reduce their numbers. ME3 had too much fetch quests...

 

I didn't mind the nature of those quests as much I was appalled by how they were set up.

 

You overhear someone talking while gallivanting around the Citadel, then you intrude just so, and then you go fetch some random thing half-way across the galaxy.

[B.Shep]

I didn't mind the nature of those quests as much I was appalled by how they were set up.

 

You overhear someone talking while gallivanting around the Citadel, then you intrude just so, and then you go fetch some random thing half-way across the galaxy.

That is exactly what i hope not to see in the next game.

[Torgette]

When you think about it, the whole fetch quest thing doesn't really match up with Mass Effect anyways - Dragon Age has always been a more traditional rpg where loot is a key component. Aside from ME1, loot has never been a key component in Mass Effect - in both 2 and 3 loot was either something you bought from stores or was placed on maps for you to pick up if you wanted along the way. I guess the broader question is whether you're afraid if random loot comes back in a big way or not? I don't think so given the setting, maybe raw materials but that's always been handled as a broad "locate & scan" type mechanic. It would be as absurd to find an assault rifle on an alien planet as it would be to find a thermal clip.

[Damdil]

I totally agree here with the OP. The necessity to do fetching quests and the "Ubisoft-like" game world with so much stuff to collect affected my experience with DA:I very negatively. I also wouldn't call that exploration because you're basically following markers on your map. While certainly every RPG contains one or another side quest, most of them were well done in Bioware games, especially the ME trilogy. In ME 2 or ME 3, every quest contains some cinematical elements and dialogues. For example, the N7 sidequest with the Cerberus Fighter Bay consisted mainly of fighting sequences, but the amount of radio chatter with Cortez and dialogue with your squad keeps you up your toes and gives you the feeling that this mission has to be a quick in and out. And even if you still find it boring, it doesn't take more than 5-10 minutes (still totally optional). Also flying around the galaxy and collecting stuff some strangers mentioned is completely optional, but quite boring. I didn't even bother gathering all those things.

 

Concerning the discussion about Inquisition, it's also important for me how Bioware advertised for the game and how it actually ended up to be. Reading about tactical combat, more roleplay elements than in Dragon Age 2, extra work for a smooth conversion for PC players, a cool story with interesting characters and lots of dialogue, a lot of players basically expected Dragon Age: Origins 2. What we got was a hack&slay game which delievers a 100 hours + playing time filled mostly with meaningless side quests, lackluster combat and even more toned down roleplay elements. While Inquisition isn't necessarily a bad game, it still isn't what most fans expected and certainly not what the developers promised. Apart from the name, it doesn't have much in common with Origins. So it's really understandable why many Bioware fans are disappointed and don't want that to happen again. It's also interesting that many of the players who like Inquisition more or less dislike Origins. Bioware surely adressed a target audience with DA:I, but the fans of the brilliant games Bioware used to made weren't really a part of it. If you want to, you can compare this with the advertisement for ME 3, which promised a very individual and great ending based on every decision the player made. In the game itself, there wasn't much left of this promise and a lot of gamers were really upset about it.

[Larry-3]

When we complete a quest, why do we need to go all the way back to the person just to tell them we completed it? Can we not just pull out our omni-tool and make a call? Example: I have located your missing ship, here are the coordinates. What is the purpose of the coom-buoy if not to communicate long distance? In the 21st century, people on Earth can transmit signals to Mars to rovers. Technology should have advanced in more than 100 years.

"Intel/object/beacon located. Hold X to access omni-tool to contact ship."

[x Raizer x]

Am I the only person who doesn't mind the occasional fetch quest?
Screw me, right?

[Damdil]

Am I the only person who doesn't mind the occasional fetch quest?
Screw me, right?

 

There is a difference between "occasional fetch quests" and "80% of the game consist of fetch quests."

[x Raizer x]

There is a difference between "occasional fetch quests" and "80% of the game consist of fetch quests."

True, and so far I haven't had that problem in a Bioware game.  World of Warcraft, sure.  Two Worlds, sure.  Witcher 2, yep.
The fetch quests seemed to either be uncommon, or done in a way to make them more interesting, in Bioware games.
At least in my opinion.

What about you?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I didn't mind the nature of those quests as much I was appalled by how they were set up.

 

You overhear someone talking while gallivanting around the Citadel, then you intrude just so, and then you go fetch some random thing half-way across the galaxy.

Since we are talking about ME3 fetch quests: 

Spoiler

[Xerxes52]

Since we are talking about ME3 fetch quests: 

 

 

*snip*

 

 

Yeah, how about no Bioware?

[MrMrPendragon]

omg IkR?!

 

Stop trying to make fetch quests happen. They're not going to happen (hopefully)

[Sanunes]

omg IkR?!

 

Stop trying to make fetch quests happen. They're not going to happen (hopefully)

 

I don't think I have ever played a game that has quests to not have a "fetch quest", even the games that people say are BioWare's best have them.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I don't mind fetch quests as long as they don't seem to take up most of the game. They also need cinematics. Lots of them.

I like how ME2 did it. And Origins/DA2.

Not ME3. There was a quest in which my Shep wanted something from a salarian merchant and this guy was giving her a hard time and wanted her to fetch something from some star system somewhere instead of simply cooperating because he was using the current situation to stockpile resources for after the war.

First off, what the **** makes anyone think there's going to be an after? We're getting slaughtered out there! Second, why is my ruthless renegade Shep taking this guys ****?

Needless to say I have a hard time getting through many parts of that game.

Inquisition just...I don't understand Inquisition. I'm the leader of the Inquisition yet i'm running around exploring like a field agent. I find a enemy hideout and instead of gathering my forces and ensuring a victory I choose to take my chances with a four man team.

Personally I think the Inquisitor should have been Cassandra with Cullen leading her army, Leliana as spymaster, and the mark bearer running around closing up rifts and scouting with Harding. The head of a huge and powerful organization trekking all over the place in search of some poor farmers wayward livestock is nonsensical and immersion breaking.

Just my 2 cents.

[timebean]

Ha!  After seeing this thread for the past few days, I finally get what "Ermegherd" means.  Tee hee....(yes, I am an idiot).

 

I am in the minority that actually liked ME1 Mako sections (don't throw things at me!!!).  I really dug riding around the planet surface and looking for stuff, and personally have no problem if this is incorporated in the new game (especially if they make it super badass, with on on-screen display of your scanning tools, infared scanners, etc).  It could be a cool element in the game IF it is done well.

 

The shards in DAI were fine in a first playtrhough cause they were there to get you to explore the world.  Many times, I found a cool codex or item while hunting a shard, so it was often worth more than opening the tomb.  2nd, playthrough and beyond, I never looked for them again *except in completionist playthrough). I think that was the point.

 

My biggest gripe with both DAi and ME3 are how the quests play out.  You have no interaction with the NPC's except overhearing or getting the quest and then completing it.  There are little to no options for solving them in a different way (ie, steal it, kill for it, convince someone to give it to you, demand money for it etc) and very littler interaction with the NPC (aside for "do this:" and "thanks").  This makes replaying the game seem monstrously tedious because the RPG elements of the side quests are not there. Both DAO and ME1 had sidequests that had multiple ways to complete and dialogue with the NPCs that could be changed up depending on your character (e.g. Hanar preaching on the citadel).  It made them worth doing over and over again cause you could handle those little quests differently each time.

 

So...give me filler by all means...but make it either worth doing OR a little more varied in subsequent playthroughs.  Mindless planet scanning and running back to some old lady in a shack with her hubbies ring over and over and over again...not fun.

[L. Han]

Depends really. If you turn out to play some kind of galactic smuggler then you probably will be doing a lot of fetch quests. Or perhaps one big one. One big fetch quest to rule them all.