59 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Roderick]

Hello,

I recently finished playing through the original campaign and am about to create a new character for the expansions.

I've noticed a few bugs in the game, so I suppose you'd like to know about them?

I decided to make a new thread rather than reply to an existing one and post all the bug reports here. Mainly because a couple of the bugs are shared by the CPP and Project Q, and you guys are all reading this forum anyway. Also, I've installed quite a few modifications into my game, so I'm not 100% sure that I'm able to pinpoint the causes of the bugs correctly, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I've got version 1.72b7 of the CPP, with Project Q 2.0 manually installed with the hak-patch method, and a semi-organized heap of other stuff on top of that.

Okay, bug #1 (this is caused by the CPP):

Male human heads 50-63 look something like this:


Now, if I can interpret what NWN Explorer is telling me, the game has helmets in these slots, and the extra face textures are found in patch171.bif and xp2_gui.erf, both of which are CPP files. Fortunately this also means that this should be a very simple bug to fix: just delete files pmh0_head050.plt - pmh0head063.plt from patch171.bif and xp2_gui.erf for the next release of the Community Patch.

[Sir Roderick]

Bug #2:

CPP and Project Q replace default higher-resolution heads with lower-resolution heads.

The CPP does this for pfa0_head007, pfd0_head006, pfd0_head007, pfd0_head010, pfg0_head001 and pfg0_head002-008.

Project Q does this for pmh0_head002.

Human male head #2 (original):

Human male head #2 (Project Q):



Fixing this depends on how meticulous you want to be. The simplest way of course would be to delete these plt files from the CPP and Project Q. But both the CPP and Project Q are attempting to replace the default head textures with colorized versions (with eyes, lips and eyebrows using tattoo and hair colors), so a better way would be to replace all these files with higher-definition colorized versions. Such things do exist. The "Realms of Mythology Heads" collection on the Vault contains colorized versions of pfg0_head001.plt and pmh0_head002.plt, and their use of color channels is consistent: tattoo 1 for eyes and tattoo 2 for lips.
http://neverwinterva...mythology-heads
And the JenX collection contains good-resolution colorized versions of all of these heads, although their use of color channels is less consistent:
http://neverwinterva...-cep20-versions

Now, I'll digress for a moment to describe the special case of human male head #143 (if you're bored by my wall of text, skip this part). As far as I can see, it's the only head in the game with no good-resolution version available in the texture packs. We could say this is a bug in the game itself, an oversight by Bioware. Currently the CPP replaces it with a colorized bad-resolution version and Project Q doesn't replace it with anything. There's a higher-definition reskin by Yavel on the Vault:
http://neverwinterva...head-143-reskin
The game data contains models for both phenotypes, pmh0_head143.mdl and pmh2_head143.mdl, both of which use the texture pmh0_head143.plt. Yavel's reskin contains pmh0_head143.mdl in addition to the texture file, but the mdl file is identical to the unmodified version. And as for the plt file, there's a colorized version of Yavel's reskin available here:
http://neverwinterva...-upgrades-heads

Human male head #143 (original):


Yavel's reskin:



The eyes on the reskin could use some adjusting, to make their position on the plt better match their position on the mdl or vice versa, but it's still a clear improvement over the original.

[Sir Roderick]

Bug #3:

Cloak animations for half-orcs are broken in the CPP and Project Q.

I played through the OC as a half-orc and didn't even realize that the cloaks were supposed to have animations.

With an unmodified game, cloak animations work for half-orcs.

With the CPP, cloak animations don't work for half-orcs of either gender.

With Project Q (with or without the CPP below it), cloak animations work for female half-orcs but not for male half-orcs.

For humans of either gender, cloak animations always work. I haven't tested with other races except for humans and half-orcs.

[Sir Roderick]

Maybe that's almost enough bug reporting for one night. I'll finish with an observation regarding the Biorural facelift hak by Toro and Zwerkules.

Here's a window in Beorunna's Well (Chapter 3 of the OC) in the umodified game:


Here's the same window with the Biorural hak active:



Is that a bug or not? I mean, is that simply caused by the modified window texture being darker than the original, or is there something here, an illumination effect perhaps, that's supposed to work but doesn't? So, I can't say whether that's a bug or not. Zwerkules can decide.

All of these projects - CPP and Q and Zwerkules's Facelifts - are really good, and I hope these bug reports don't discourage you guys or anything.

[henesua]

thanks for helping out with this reporting. But I would like to offer some basic help in your endeavor and say that I think its better if you simplify the bug reporting. At present its hard to tell what are bugs here and what packages the bugs are in. You did a great job showing the differences when you have the biorural override, but the other stuff I am not so clear which package is the culprit or if you have found anything.

 

In fact I suspect that the biorural thing maybe a bug in the original that the builder of that module used to their advantage. The best way to test this is to work with that tile in the toolset (and back and forth in game at different times) and see if you can toggle the animation states in anyway. Or if somehow zwerkules' biorural eliminated the animation by mistake.

 

Anyway, not a big deal. Its just that its hard for me to tell what is a bug and what is not here because you ave so many packages interacting with one another.

[kuronue bloodlust]

I am cataloging the CEP items in the starter module i can make a quick test mode when i get to the items in question and test them to see

[Sir Roderick]

Pinpointing the causes of the head bugs (#1 CPP, #2 CPP & Project Q) is relatively easy, because it's a fairly simple matter to browse through all the heads in a package with NWN Explorer. Henesua, your own facelift hak by the way (that Llyra/Vives thing on the Vault) has those same low-resolution heads in there. So bug #2 is rather widespread.

 

Looking at head textures is simple, but the cloak animation and window illumination issues are beyond my understanding. If you want to know how I tested the cloak issue, I started a new game of Shadows of Undrentide with three different characters - human male, half-orc female, half-orc male), had each of them type "##DebugMode 1" and "##dm_spawnitem nw_maarcl031" and run around with the cloak to see if it moves, saved these three games and reloaded them with unmodified game, with CPP only, with Project Q haks only and with CPP and Project Q together.

 

You're all welcome to verify whether you can replicate my findings on your own installation or not.

[Sir Roderick]

I am cataloging the CEP items in the starter module i can make a quick test mode when i get to the items in question and test them to see

 

CEP is one package I don't have though.

At least not all of it, just one head for my new character.

[kuronue bloodlust]

CEP is one package I don't have though.

At least not all of it, just one head for my new character.

that may be part of the problem the CEP is a rather huge hack

[Sir Roderick]

that may be part of the problem the CEP is a rather huge hack

 

Which is why I'm not using it as such. Extracting, text-editing and renumbering one single head is a simple matter though.

 

The bugs I've reported in this thread have nothing to do with the CEP, and I haven't had anything from the CEP included in my installation while I've tested these.

[henesua]

How do you turn the CPP on and off? are you testing on an install with the CPP and one without? Again it is not clear to me what you are actually testing here.

 

Again, not a big deal. I'm not here to start a debate with you. Just letting you know that it is not clear to me what you are testing since you have so many packages layered on top of one another.

[meaglyn]

You can turn the cpp on and off by switching which xp2patch.key file you use.  You don't need multiple installations.

[Sir Roderick]

Exactly. I switched between xp2patch.key and its backup version. And Project Q and the other haks can of course be switched on or off with nwnpatch.ini.

[Sir Roderick]

All right, I did a bit more testing of the cloak bug, with CPP only, all other modifications off.

This time I tested by starting a new game with dwarves and gnomes.

Gnome female: cloak animations work
Gnome male: cloak animations don't work
Dwarf female: cloak animations don't work
Dwarf male: cloak animations don't work

I assume this has something to do with the division into the animation categories a_ba / a_fa / a_da / a_dfa. Frankly I don't know much about this at all, but this division is explained here:
http://ccg.animecafe...itle=Animations

Because according to those categories, gnome females belong to the same animation category as human females, whereas gnome males belong to the same animation category as dwarf and half-orc males.

So, CPP seems to break cloak animations for all race-gender combinations in the a_da and a_dfa categories.

And although I haven't tested Project Q here more extensively, I assume the difference between the male and female half-orc there could be due to a_dfa animations working right in Project Q and only a_da animations being bugged.

[Shadooow]

Hello,

Now, if I can interpret what NWN Explorer is telling me, the game has helmets in these slots, and the extra face textures are found in patch171.bif and xp2_gui.erf, both of which are CPP files. Fortunately this also means that this should be a very simple bug to fix: just delete files pmh0_head050.plt - pmh0head063.plt from patch171.bif and xp2_gui.erf for the next release of the Community Patch.

PLT is not a texture, PLT is a file that controls colorization. Meaning what on the texture is hair and what is skin. CPP adds tatoos into head to allow color lips/eyes. I dont see how this could alter the actual head in any way.

 

 

CPP and Project Q replace default higher-resolution heads with lower-resolution heads.

The CPP does this for pfa0_head007, pfd0_head006, pfd0_head007, pfd0_head010, pfg0_head001 and pfg0_head002-008.

I dont think this is correct. CPP does not replace textures (DDS/TGA) only models, those uses the same textures so it should not be caused by CPP. AND even if CPP actually overrided textures, it would not appeared the way you see because the CPP is BIF and bif has lowest priority, the textures from bif are used only if you are running on lowest details (or you dont have texturepacks folder in your installation).

 

If someone can verify this I will look into it but im currently not around NWN stuff...

[Sir Roderick]

PLT is not a texture, PLT is a file that controls colorization. Meaning what on the texture is hair and what is skin. CPP adds tatoos into head to allow color lips/eyes. I dont see how this could alter the actual head in any way.

 

Interesting! PLT files are usually referred to as textures. Here for example:

http://ccg.animecafe...es#PLT_Textures

 

Quote from that definition:

"So what is a PLT. It is a file format that holds grey scale images which have been built from collapsing a number of grey scale images. There are up to 10 image layers..." And then it lists those layers: skin, hair, tattoo1, tattoo2, etc. But isn't that basically everything that makes up the head texture, in many different layers that refer to the palette files?

 

 

I dont think this is correct. CPP does not replace textures (DDS/TGA) only models, those uses the same textures so it should not be caused by CPP.

 

Okay. Open NWN Explorer, click open "NWN: HotU Patch Data" -> "data\patch171.bif" -> "Textures, PLT", and you can examine all the PLT files included in the Patch. Most of them are the right size. A few of them are very small, those are the low-resolution textures. Those are the ones I listed in my post. And here you can see that your patch also contains files pmh0_head050.plt - pmh0_head063.plt. But if you click open the folder "Models, Pheno", also in "data\patch171.bif", you'll see the Patch does not contain any head models (as it shouldn't, since the coloring of the eyes and lips is totally done with the plt files). And this is precisely the reason for the grotesque-looking human male heads 50-63: you're replacing the helmet plts with new head plts, but you're not replacing the helmet mdl files. The head plts 50-63 shouldn't be there at all.

 

 AND even if CPP actually overrided textures, it would not appeared the way you see because the CPP is BIF and bif has lowest priority, the textures from bif are used only if you are running on lowest details (or you dont have texturepacks folder in your installation).

 

Hmm, come to think of it, I haven't investigated whether those low-resolution heads show up ingame - my screenshot was the human male head #2 from Project Q, which is in an overriding hak. But on the other hand, we can see the grotesque heads 50-63 do show up ingame, and they do replace default helmet plts... One thing to consider is that these plt files from patch171.bif are also in xp2_gui.erf... which is in the "Texture Packs" category in NWN Explorer, and which is another file that is from your patch. And does that file have higher priority if your bif file does not?

 

 

If someone can verify this I will look into it but im currently not around NWN stuff...

 

Take your time, Shadooow. I suspect that the low-resolution head bug is something that has been around for as long as the guy who first started coloring the lips and eyes on the faces extracted them from the game data and took a few of his files from the wrong place by mistake... and then those low-resolution head plts just got copied and copied and copied and copied into most of the custom content that has head overrides. So if the custom content community has lived with this bug for years and years, they can live with it for a while longer.

[Shadooow]

Okay so its technically a texture but it cant do what your screenshots shows. PLT has no low res / high res and it does not alter the quality of dds/tga textures.

 

The texture you see in the game is from dds/tga not plt.

[Gruftlord]

for what it's worth, i was able to replicate the cloak issue on male dwarves. Imho it's also unimportant what is the reason of the low res heads, fact is, they are there. Do you see them in your game shadooow, and if not, can we find the parameters, under which tey are displayed? Fwiw, plts do of course have a resolution, and it may be possible, that one of the plts in question has a lower resolution than the original dds/tga is replaces.

[Sir Roderick]

Okay so its technically a texture but it cant do what your screenshots shows. PLT has no low res / high res and it does not alter the quality of dds/tga textures.

 

The texture you see in the game is from dds/tga not plt.

 

Okay. The basics:

 

All the textures for tiles, creatures, etc. are in tga/dds format.

 

All the textures for body parts (including heads) are in plt format.

 

If your statement "The texture you see in the game is from dds/tga not plt" was true, you could point me to the exact tga/dds files that contain the head textures. But there are none. Whereas I've given the names of the plt files that contain the bugged head textures in the firsts two posts in this thread. In NWN Explorer you can visually see those plt files. So, have a look at them at some point.

[Sir Roderick]

for what it's worth, i was able to replicate the cloak issue on male dwarves.

 

Excellent! Cloak bug verified.

 

 

Imho it's also unimportant what is the reason of the low res heads, fact is, they are there.

 

The reason is important too, because when Shadooow understands the reason, he can fix the problem.

 

I wrote my own suggestions for solutions in those first two posts here.

 

Basically I fully understand the logic behind the head bugs, but I don't understand the cause of the cloak bugs (more specifically than being able to tell that it's related to a_da and a_dfa), because I don't know much about animations.

[Pstemarie]

Bug #3:

Cloak animations for half-orcs are broken in the CPP and Project Q.

I played through the OC as a half-orc and didn't even realize that the cloaks were supposed to have animations.

With an unmodified game, cloak animations work for half-orcs.

With the CPP, cloak animations don't work for half-orcs of either gender.

With Project Q (with or without the CPP below it), cloak animations work for female half-orcs but not for male half-orcs.

For humans of either gender, cloak animations always work. I haven't tested with other races except for humans and half-orcs.

 

Just confirming what I already knew as I've been up and down all the dynamic animation supers numerous times over the years. All Q has ever done is add animations or replace old DLA animations that were never scrapped when the horse animations were finished. We never touched cloaks on the base animation supers.

 

Anyway, I've run through a a test module with the Project Q haks attached in a vanilla install of NWN 1.69. Cloaks animate correctly for ALL races and genders. This issue is NOT related to Project Q. 

 

Not sure why you get the issue with CPP installed and Q on top. The Q animation supers, which are loaded through a hak, will overwrite anything modified by the CPP. 

[Sir Roderick]

Thanks for your reply Pstemarie. After your reply, I retested again:

- first, I made sure everything else was off (Override folder renamed, nwnpatch.ini renamed, CPP versions of xp2patch.key and xp2_gui.erf renamed and the original backups of those two files restored)

- then I redownloaded the manual installation package of Project Q 2.0 from the Vault and re-installed everything in it except for its auto-updater, replacing all files

- started a new game of Q_Base_NoHorses with a new male dwarf

- typed "##DebugMode 1" and "##dm_spawnitem nw_maarcl031" to spawn in a Nymph Cloak +1

- took a screenshot of the dwarf running with his unanimated cloak:

 

 

- started a new game of the Prelude of the OC with a new male dwarf

- typed the same commands and took a screenshot of this dwarf running around with his animated cloak:

 

So, what are we doing differently? About the only thing I don't have here is the Q autoupdater, but I don't suppose it's added anything new that could explain the difference?

 

Not sure why you get the issue with CPP installed and Q on top. The Q animation supers, which are loaded through a hak, will overwrite anything modified by the CPP. 

 

I think the CPP actually doesn't affect the animations at all with Project Q installed. The Project Q haks override it properly, as they should. One proof of this is that this is another test where I had the CPP off, and I had the problem with Q alone. Another proof is that CPP's cloak bug also affects female dwarves and half-orcs, Q's cloak bug affects only males.

So, I have no idea why we're getting different results.

[Sir Roderick]

I found the files that cause the Project Q cloak bug in my game.

If I have all the other modifications off but create an nwnpatch.ini file that has "PatchFile000=q_race" and nothing else, half-orc cloak is stiff.

If I instead have an nwnpatch.ini file that only lists a custom hak that contains all the files from q_race.hak except for a_ba.mdl and a_da.mdl, the half-orc cloak moves!

If that custom hak has all the files from q_race.hak except for a_da.mdl, the cloak is stiff. Also, if it has all the files except for a_ba.mdl, the cloak is stiff. Both of them have to be removed in order for the cloak animations to work.

To get them working for a fat half-orc, a_ba2.mdl and a_da2.mdl have to be removed in addition to a_ba.mdl and a_da.mdl.

So, this bug is caused by those four files within q_race.hak.

You may not be seeing this in your game Pstemarie, but in my game I'm seeing it and here it's caused by those files in Project Q.

I encourage others to test whether they see what I see or what Pstemarie sees: just run around with a cloaked male half-orc or dwarf or gnome in the Q starter module, for example. What you're looking for is whether the cloak moves (swings, billows, expands, contracts) or whether it stays stiff.

[Shadooow]

So far verified the cloak issue. its caused by a_ba.mdl which I got from here. Project Q uses the same one with more customizations, Looks like this fix brings more troubles than benefits :/. Its not my fix so the only solution is to remove this file from my patch. Maybe Pstemarie or OTR wil be able to fix this.

[Shadooow]

As for heads. I see the mentioned heads low res whether I have CPP on or off.