156 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumix19]

Well as I said, you can use that War Table mission to sign a peace with Ferelden even with Gaspard on the throne, and the epilogue even acknowledges the fact that it happened. It makes it clear he can safely focus on his Northern borders. Which is, entirely, Nevarra.  

Indeed. Nevarra's really not in a good position sandwiched between all those nations. That said I imagine Nevarra would be a match for Orlais. It might just be whether Tevinter decided to get involved.

 

The place is technically abandoned. So Orlais has no real presence up there. That is why the Mages met there right? So since we don't know for sure Nevarra has no people there, we can call that the No Man's Land. Eaither way, he's not getting to Tevinter without going through someone else. 

True.

[Daerog]

Nevarra seems to have the friendliest relationship with Tevinter compared to other nations. So, I would think that if Nevarra were ever truly threatened by Orlais, they could get some Tevinter support. If Orlais really pushed its weight against Nevarra, Tevinter might get really involved as well, just to have more influence in Nevarra or possibly turn it into a puppet. Probably spark another Exalted March like with what happened last time Tevinter pushed its influence south, but Tevinter weathered Marches before and could possibly just cement an alliance with Nevarra... or I could just be dreaming that possibility.

 

 Tevinter+Nevarra

[Lumix19]

Nevarra seems to have the friendliest relationship with Tevinter compared to other nations. So, I would think that if Nevarra were ever truly threatened by Orlais, they could get some Tevinter support. If Orlais really pushed its weight against Nevarra, Tevinter might get really involved as well, just to have more influence in Nevarra or possibly turn it into a puppet. Probably spark another Exalted March like with what happened last time Tevinter pushed its influence south, but Tevinter weathered Marches before and could possibly just cement an alliance with Nevarra... or I could just be dreaming that possibility.

 

 Tevinter+Nevarra

I would like that but I doubt. If Orlais pushed into Nevarra and Tevinter got involved it would probably just be to scoop up as much territory as they could before Orlais got it all. It might spark an Exalted March but I doubt anybody would be willing to listen over something so obviously territorial, Orlais and Nevarra would be involved in their war, Antiva doesn't really maintain a standing army and the Free Marches are too divided. Only the Anderfels might respond but it's not really an Exalted March then.

[TheRevanchist]

Tevinter and Nevarra are NOT on good terms. There is in fact a War Table mission I got on my last time where you had to prevent a war between Tevinter and Nevarra because they both wanted a piece of land Venatori were occupying. The only thing keeping the peace was the Inqusition troops in the middle that took out the Venatori. If Tevinter has the resources to spare from their war with Qunadar they would likely also make a massive land grab. If Gaspard goes for Nevarra, they are totally doomed. Tevinter and Orlais are the two supreme powers. They have no chance of fighting both, even if the Inquisition and The Anderfells assisted. As Dorian said, Tevinter gave up on the ideas of Alliances a long time ago. They take pride in going it alone. 

[Lumix19]

Tevinter and Nevarra are NOT on good terms. There is in fact a War Table mission I got on my last time where you had to prevent a war between Tevinter and Nevarra because they both wanted a piece of land Venatori were occupying. The only thing keeping the peace was the Inqusition troops in the middle that took out the Venatori. If Tevinter has the resources to spare from their war with Qunadar they would likely also make a massive land grab. If Gaspard goes for Nevarra, they are totally doomed. Tevinter and Orlais are the two supreme powers. They have no chance of fighting both, even if the Inquisition and The Anderfells assisted.

Indeed. I should have brought it up but I couldn't be bothered hunting for the wiki page detailing the War Table mission. That said it would make sense if Tevinter preserved Nevarra since they act as a buffer against Orlais. Claiming Nevarran territory would be an attractive prospect but might not work out in the long-run since Tevinter doesn't have any allies and it is in the middle of a conflict with the Qun. Better to keep Nevarra focused on Orlais and Orlais focused on Nevarra so Tevinter can be left in peace to sort out the Qun issue. After they can turn their attention to Thedas proper.

[TheRevanchist]

Indeed. I should have brought it up but I couldn't be bothered hunting for the wiki page detailing the War Table mission. That said it would make sense if Tevinter preserved Nevarra since they act as a buffer against Orlais. Claiming Nevarran territory would be an attractive prospect but might not work out in the long-run since Tevinter doesn't have any allies and it is in the middle of a conflict with the Qun. Better to keep Nevarra focused on Orlais and Orlais focused on Nevarra so Tevinter can be left in peace to sort out the Qun issue. After they can turn their attention to Thedas proper.

 

But thats the thing, even Dorian, a proud Tevinter patriot knows the futility of that. Qunadar cannot be beaten by Tevinter alone. But they have convinced themselves that if they just throw enough blood Magic at the Qunari, that someday they will win. Keeping them as a buffer would be the smart thing to do, let them wear each other out, then strike after they are both exhausted. However I somehow doubt that would be what they do. Tevinter's arrogance truly knows no limits. I can almost bet they are convinced they could handle both fronts.

[Urzon]

Sadly, I think this is another subject that will mostly only effect a person headcanon in the long run. Sure, it's a huge choice in DAI, but so was choosing Ferelden's in DAO and we all saw how much that impacted the story so far. Little to none.

[TheRevanchist]

Sadly, I think this is another subject that will mostly only effect a person headcanon in the long run. Sure, it's a huge choice in DAI, but so was choosing Ferelden's in DAO and we all saw how much that impacted the story so far. Little to none.

 

Considering the next game (if there ever is one) will be taking place in the North. This has a much greater chance of having consequences. Ferelden has never been a warmongering country. They just do their own thing. So really that choice is more about how you feel about Bloodlines and Traditions and things like that. Whereas choosing Orlais's new monarch can possibly change the entire worlds political situation. Celene desires Peace, which is what we've been seeing from Orlais until now. Gaspard desires war, as much of it as possible. With the future games going further north having Gaspard be in charge we would likely see the effects of his campaigns first hand as we traveled around.

[Urzon]

Whereas choosing Orlais's new monarch can possibly change the entire worlds political situation. Celene desires Peace, which is what we've been seeing from Orlais until now. Gaspard desires war, as much of it as possible. With the future games going further north having Gaspard be in charge we would likely see the effects of his campaigns first hand as we traveled around.

I wish I had that amount of optimism, but sadly it would just take too many resources and time to fully add, balance, and implement the content of 2-3 diverging scenarios in the next game. They'll probably change the dialogue a bit, each side will get their own codices, maybe some optional side missions, but I very much doubt it will effect the game in any large meaningful way.

And the next game (possibly) taking place in the north is even more of a reason to suspect this. All that distance between the North and the South of Thedas means they distance themselves from all the choices from the last games, and it gives them the excuse to be purposely vague on details of what's happening down there.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Considering the next game (if there ever is one) will be taking place in the North. This has a much greater chance of having consequences. Ferelden has never been a warmongering country. They just do their own thing. So really that choice is more about how you feel about Bloodlines and Traditions and things like that. Whereas choosing Orlais's new monarch can possibly change the entire worlds political situation. Celene desires Peace, which is what we've been seeing from Orlais until now. Gaspard desires war, as much of it as possible. With the future games going further north having Gaspard be in charge we would likely see the effects of his campaigns first hand as we traveled around.

Or he gets overthrown because being a warmongering racist ****** actually has consequences. Heck, his ending and Keep tile outright say he has severe opposition.

[megageeklizzy]

NO.

 

 

 

 

Seriously, he can't even play the Game well enough to keep himself alive without intervention by the Inquisitor.  

[MoonDrummer]

NO.

 

 

 

 

Seriously, he can't even play the Game well enough to keep himself alive without intervention by the Inquisitor.  

Neither can Celene?

[TheRevanchist]

Well technically Celene dying has nothing to do with her ability to play The Game. Gaspard started the war because he cannot defeat her in The Game. She dies because The Duchess, is not playing The Game. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Daerog:  Not only could they get Tevinter support because of the "magister" connection of necromancy - but also because Tevinter seems obviously as ambitious as Orlais might be, only through "English" means.  By that I mean - they don't go conquer... they just become invaluable to a region and then "take over".  Or, at least that's what they seem to be trying (with things like Redcliff).  

 

If Cassandra were Divine - and Gaspard invaded Nevarra - I think there would be "issues".  

 

If Cassandra is part of the Inquisition - and Gaspard invades Nevarra - I think there would be "bigger issues".

If Cassandra becomes queen of Nevarra (not so far fetched as she's clearly the most popular Pentaghast at this point) - then I think Orlais is screwed cause that lady kills dragons for breakfast.  

[MoonDrummer]

Well technically Celene dying has nothing to do with her ability to play The Game. Gaspard started the war because he cannot defeat her in The Game. She dies because The Duchess, is not playing The Game. 

But Florienne's plan is a part of the game? Without the Inquisitor's help she dies, and therefore loses the game.

[Urzon]

But Florienne's plan is a part of the game? Without the Inquisitor's help she dies, and therefore loses the game.

I'm not sure if killing someone in such an open and frank manner would be considered a part of the Game. Because killing someone in the middle of a ball? Such a Tevinter thing to do...

[Augustei]

This is the map I've been using, because as you said, Nevarra captured Perendale. 

 

Seen this map before, not really a fan of it.
Orlais's borders stretch further north, claiming Andorals Reach (despite not using it, it is referred to as in Northern Orlais in Asunder). They also push a slight bit further east in the north, as they share a border with Orzammar
Ferelden's Borders don't push that far west, they don't control The Frostbacks, The Avvar and Inquisition do.
Nevarra pushes further East, being that they went on a rapid expansion after Perendale and pushed all the way up to Tantervale which they failed to conquer thanks to Tanervales Champion which you can read about in the mantle of the champion codex.
Tevinter Pushes Further South, Theres 3 cities that map claims to belong to Nevarra which actually belong to Tevinter.


 

[Steelcan]

Why do we care about Nevarra all of a sudden?

Glory to Emperor Gaspard

[Augustei]

Celene is awful at the game, that Gaspard is not competent at it either does not change this. Both of them aren't what i'd call good rulers.
Gaspards initial plan to take over the circles himself can be argued as fisable but its extremely high risk. -This plan is probably my biggest problem with him
As to the Divine siding with The Inquisitor over Gaspard, Thats kind of up in the air, mainly because Orlais esentially controls the chantry (Divine Victoria's election being considered because of The Inquisitors favor obtained from Saving Celene / Putting Gaspard on the throne. Cassandra: "Did you hear they are considering me and Leliana for Divine, Because of the events at Halamshiral (Winter Palace) Of Course) So declaring for the Inquisitor over the Orlesian Crown would be extremely high risk i'd say, It would evaporate the Divines support base among the Grand Clerics i'd think.

As for Invading Nevarra, Despite Markus's weakness don't discount Nevarra so easily, Sure Orlais would likely win a war between the two but Nevarra still has a formidable millitary and many apparently noteworthy Generals so I don't see them keeling over and getting "Stomped into dust"
While I don't see Gaspard declaring any wars in the short term future, It is indeed likely he will eventually, Though tbh I have no problem with this as long as it makes sense.
I mainly picked Gaspard because he seems more likely to listen to and be manipulated by my Inquisitor, I could do the same with Celene but i'd have to do that via the court to which she is an obvious puppet of, not direct.
Also because he's old and when he dies in 10 years or so (Actually this is probably a reason why the guy wont be expanding, he'll die before getting the chance) My Inquisitor plans on influencing that sucession =D

[TheRevanchist]

Why do we care about Nevarra all of a sudden?

Glory to Emperor Gaspard

 

Why DON'T you care about Nevarra?? You should want everyone to calm down and chill out, not keep killing each other!

[Steelcan]

If the writers intended Gaspard's age to be a point against him, it'd have been brought up in game. As it stands its never really made a big deal of, and the epilogues don't mention it either, so we can safely discount its impact.

[TheRevanchist]

Celene is awful at the game, that Gaspard is not competent at it either does not change this. Both of them aren't what i'd call good rulers.
Gaspards initial plan to take over the circles himself can be argued as fisable but its extremely high risk. -This plan is probably my biggest problem with him
As to the Divine siding with The Inquisitor over Gaspard, Thats kind of up in the air, mainly because Orlais esentially controls the chantry (Divine Victoria's election being considered because of The Inquisitors favor obtained from Saving Celene / Putting Gaspard on the throne. Cassandra: "Did you hear they are considering me and Leliana for Divine, Because of the events at Halamshiral (Winter Palace) Of Course) So declaring for the Inquisitor over the Orlesian Crown would be extremely high risk i'd say, It would evaporate the Divines support base among the Grand Clerics i'd think.

As for Invading Nevarra, Despite Markus's weakness don't discount Nevarra so easily, Sure Orlais would likely win a war between the two but Nevarra still has a formidable millitary and many apparently noteworthy Generals so I don't see them keeling over and getting "Stomped into dust"
While I don't see Gaspard declaring any wars in the short term future, It is indeed likely he will eventually, Though tbh I have no problem with this as long as it makes sense.
I mainly picked Gaspard because he seems more likely to listen to and be manipulated by my Inquisitor, I could do the same with Celene but i'd have to do that via the court to which she is an obvious puppet of, not direct.
Also because he's old and when he dies in 10 years or so (Actually this is probably a reason why the guy wont be expanding, he'll die before getting the chance) My Inquisitor plans on influencing that sucession =D

 

The lore makes it pretty clear Celene is actually very skilled at The Game. So good in fact she was able to claim the Throne despite the fact it was Gaspards by Right of Birth, something not easily overcome in most Noble circles. 

[Steelcan]

Why DON'T you care about Nevarra?? You should want everyone to calm down and chill out, not keep killing each other!

Because Nevarra didn't bankroll the Inquisition, because King Markus doesn't owe me his throne?

Also Gaspard's epilogue is clear, he fortifies the Orlesian border with Tevinter, he isn't gunning for Nevarra.

[MoonDrummer]

Why DON'T you care about Nevarra?? You should want everyone to calm down and chill out, not keep killing each other!

People killing each other makes the world more interesting. Plus, Nevarra is weird.

[TheRevanchist]

Because Nevarra didn't bankroll the Inquisition, because King Markus doesn't owe me his throne?

Also Gaspard's epilogue is clear, he fortifies the Orlesian border with Tevinter, he isn't gunning for Nevarra.

 

Orlais did not "bankroll" it either. Lots of individual people did, from Antiva, to Nevarra, to Orlais to Ferelden, even some in Tevinter. You can easily save King Markus from Venatori brainwashing, so yes in a way he does owe you too.