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[MisterJB]

 

You can't crush Nevarra. It's a country made up entirely of Cassandra Pentaghasts.

It's invincible.

[KaiserShep]

Don't forget they love their mortalitasi over there. They can set the dead upon you.

[MisterJB]

Did you think the whole "keeping corpses unburnt" was a quaint cultural custom?

F*ck no, you're invading, you're dealing with an actual Legion of the Dead.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I assume the use of the War Table is to allow for much more diverse states, without actually having to code scenes into the game. The issue of course, without a visual representation, a lot of the impact is lost. If the table, or something like it, is carried into the next game, there could be lots of little differences, but it won't have the same oomph as seeing Gaspard's, or Celine's approaches playing out in scenes.

In the end, it could make a huge difference next game, just not in terms of how it changes scenes, but it could still end up carving up the regions in different ways. Curious if that would actually be implemented onto a map of the region.

Assuming that they implement a way to hear/see how it changed the country (similar to the War Table), we'll likely get the variables. Hopefully, it will be more than a Codex though.

[NextGenCowboy]

I hope so too.

 

As for Nevarra and being a country of Cass', I believe her actual line is "Most are fat and lazy", and that's her own family she's talking about.

[leaguer of one]

 

 

You can't crush Nevarra. It's a country made up entirely of Cassandra Pentaghasts.

It's invincible.

 

Nope , it's a country that used to be entirely made of Cassandra Pentaghasts. All the so called noble who are dragon slayers got fat and Lazy.

[Augustei]

The lore makes it pretty clear Celene is actually very skilled at The Game. So good in fact she was able to claim the Throne despite the fact it was Gaspards by Right of Birth, something not easily overcome in most Noble circles. 

And The Masked Empire made it pretty clear she is terrible at it, As did the whole thing in Kirkwall spiraling out of control and her doing absolutely nothing about it despite reports she was keeping an interest in the situation and despite the massive influence Orlais has over The Chantry.
Just because the scholars compare her to Drakon and call her savior doesn't make it so, I mean the lore also says Alistair is popular and hardened Alistair is an efficient ruler, Yet the evidence makes it very clear he is easily the worst political entity in the entire series.

"Rebellion in the south? Public Response? Do nothing, Actual Response personally lead Urban combat mission with a few thousand men" *slow clap*
"Mage/Templar rising tensions and possible war, Response? Ehh let Justinia handle it"
"Hmm I could totes obsorb Ferelden by marrying Cailan and easily take the country...Hmm actually nvm he's married"
"Gaspard being rebellious? Alienate the lower nobility and insult the Chevaliers sounds like the way to fix that!"
"Play suitors to keep alliances and keep rivals at bay? Lol this plan can totes work forever!"
"Political infighting? Lets promote it and get involved! That'll work out well"
Then theres the scenes of what is essentially "What does the court want? What does the court want? What does the court want? What do they think?"

As for taking the throne, She did that with the help of her skillful and influencial allies Duke Prosper de Montfort and Lady Mantilion. The unrest in Orlais starting after Prosper's death is no coincidence imo, The demonstrated incompetence of Celene wasn't going to hold up the country on its own.
 

[Augustei]

I don't think that Ferelden would need protection from Orlais.  Orlais may be powerful, but don't forget that they managed to kick them out once.  They were occupied for something like 80 years before doing so, but they did it!  The thing with Ferelden is, no matter who you put on the throne in DA:O, you basically get a strong leader.  The weakest possibility is a softened Alistair, which doesn't seem to have an impact on what happens in the country to any noticeable effect.  Sure, Ferelden is still weak from the Blight, but it has been 10 years and that's a lot of time for a whole new crop of soldiers to have been recruited and trained.  The way I see it, Orlais trying to conquer Ferelden would  give Orlais a challenge no matter what.  Plus, for me personally, Loghain was a Warden and still alive, so the Alistair/Anora Ferelden could call him back for help if they needed it.  Not to mention that all of this is based on choosing Gaspard, which I did not do (I'm a Celene/Briala reunited person, but that's because I read the books), so I don't need to worry about this, haha.  I like Gaspard as a person, and I wish that I could have had him imprisoned and reunited Celene and Briala, but I wanted them together more than him alive.

10 years is not enough time to recover from a blight and a civil war.
Alistair is not a strong king, he's a joke. In his short time as King he has managed to put his nation at risk of war 4 times already.
Risked war with Antiva by killing their Prince
Risked war with Tevinter by killing a room full of Tevinter Magisters. After annoncing himself as the King of Ferelden to them!
Risked Civil War in Ferelden by insisting he go on this little adventure to Antiva and Tevinter personally, putting his life at risk and risking a sucession crisis
Risked War with Orlais by acting like an idiot at the peace talks in the war table mission, Josephine makes it clear it was a struggle to pull them off. Unlike Anoras which it a great success.

Also just because Gaspard is dead doesn't mean Orlais won't be desireous of war, Most of the Chevalier class still want a war with Ferelden, as is evident by how they mainly favored Gaspard in the civil war.
Then we have all the traditionalist nobles in the countries south, Gaspard's ally Montsimmard is also still alive and Lydes can potentially be ruled by a traditionalist Chevalier
 

[Don Lionheart]

10 years is not enough time to recover from a blight and a civil war.
Alistair is not a strong king, he's a joke. In his short time as King he has managed to put his nation at risk of war 4 times already.
Risked war with Antiva by killing their Prince
Risked war with Tevinter by killing a room full of Tevinter Magisters. After annoncing himself as the King of Ferelden to them!
Risked Civil War in Ferelden by insisting he go on this little adventure to Antiva and Tevinter personally, putting his life at risk and risking a sucession crisis
Risked War with Orlais by acting like an idiot at the peace talks in the war table mission, Josephine makes it clear it was a struggle to pull them off. Unlike Anoras which it a great success.

Also just because Gaspard is dead doesn't mean Orlais won't be desireous of war, Most of the Chevalier class still want a war with Ferelden, as is evident by how they mainly favored Gaspard in the civil war.
Then we have all the traditionalist nobles in the countries south, Gaspard's ally Montsimmard is also still alive and Lydes can potentially be ruled by a traditionalist Chevalier
 

 

You're right in that it's not enough time to fully recover from the Blight, since the land itself takes centuries to fully recover if it ever does.  However, look at Redcliffe 10 years after the Blight and the undead assault, it's doing fairly well.  There are a few codex entries that talk about Denerim feeling the lingering effect of the Blight, but nothing that says they're struggling to survive or on the brink of dying, so I think they would put up a hardy fight.

 

Keep in mind that the "Prince" that was killed was most likely one of the Merchant Princes of Antiva, which means they're not royalty, just incredibly wealthy and influential, so they're not going to war over one of those guys being killed.  Oh, and Isabela is the one who actually killed him.

 

He also does not announce himself as King to them all, just to the one guy that he wanted information from.  While possible others found out who he was, we have no proof of that, and I would hardly call that "risking war."  I would surmise that Tevinter didn't even have knowledge of what the guy was doing, based on the way Tevinter Magisters go off and do their own thing so often.

 

I'll grant you that going off on this journey was not the smartest move, but for my game, he's married to Anora and if he died she would get what she wanted with no one to contest her selection as Queen.

 

The talks with Orlais were peace talks, so he did not risk war by behaving like...well, like Alistair.  Josephine says that it was no easy to keep talks from spiraling out of control, not a struggle to pull them off, so that's in no way "risking war" either.

 

Even if the Chevalier class does want war, they're not going to go to war without their Empress declaring it.  The only way for that to happen would for their to be a defection among some of Gaspard's former allies, at which point Orlais and Ferelden would probably both step in, because Celene would not stand for a hint of people defying her wishes/treaties.

 

I also must point out that I said that my canon was a hardened Alistair and Anora together, which is known to be a strong and formidable pairing and effective leaders.  Other combinations of decisions could be more dangerous and risky of war, my point was that for my canon, it's one of the least likely, and that Ferelden would put up a fight against Orlais no matter what, that it wouldn't be a roflstomp victory for them.

[KaiserShep]

Risked war with Tevinter by killing a room full of Tevinter Magisters. After annoncing himself as the King of Ferelden to them!

 

I have to wonder if killing Magisters even constitutes an act of war for Tevinter, because it seems like getting killed by any foreigner that isn't qunari is just treated like an occupational hazard, especially since these sinister wizards seem content to constantly go off to do weirdly nefarious things on foreign soil all the time.

[Aimi]

I have to wonder if killing Magisters even constitutes an act of war for Tevinter, because it seems like getting killed by any foreigner that isn't qunari is just treated like an occupational hazard, especially since these sinister wizards seem content to constantly go off to do weirdly nefarious things on foreign soil all the time.

"An international incident is what one of the parties involved wishes to define as an international incident. Without that desire, sunken ships and shot-down airliners have been known to disappear as completely as any alleged victim of the Bermuda triangle."

Dennis Showalter wrote those words about the outbreak of the Franco-German War in 1870, but they apply just as readily to Thedas.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I trap Celene, Gaspard, and Briala in an "alliance" of convenience so that they (and by extension Orlais) are too riven by internal squabbling to threaten their neighbours for a good long time (I was playing a Trevelyan, and Marchers hate the Orlesians almost as much as Fereldens do). If the option to let Corypheus have Orlais and leave the rest of Thedas alone had been on the table, I would have let him.

[Lumix19]

Somewhat off topic but given the herp de derp on elven rights.

Elves aren't and shouldn't be treated as people.

At best they can be a somewhat viable labor source when they aren't summoning demons or hyping on their own ego.

Their a distant, inferior cousin of humanity.

Like a chimpanzee compared to man.

Honestly they to me aren't even useful enough to enslave.

There aren't enough of them per nation for it to be cost effective.

Their dead end genome should just do as nature obviously wants and die.

That's not how nature works, nor is the chimpanzee somehow inherently inferior to man.

 

Because theirs was a healthy relationship.

Heh I don't see it.

...honestly Gaspard is doing her a favor calling for her execution.

Briala can die knowing a absolute of the word.

Human nature is immutable.

Despite her terrorism and spying, all her murdering and plotting.

She still loses.

The inferior are crushed beneath the boot of the mighty.

I find that people who say this seem to believe that they are the mighty, and then quickly recant when they realise they're not.

[KaiserShep]

I trap Celene, Gaspard, and Briala in an "alliance" of convenience so that they (and by extension Orlais) are too riven by internal squabbling to threaten their neighbours for a good long time (I was playing a Trevelyan, and Marchers hate the Orlesians almost as much as Fereldens do). If the option to let Corypheus have Orlais and leave the rest of Thedas alone had been on the table, I would have let him.

 

With my Trevelyan, I'm fond of the dialogue option in Haven where you can badmouth Orlais to Josephine (our independence baffles them), although I wish choicer words were available, like "I don't care what those gilded snakes think". I really dig having my character be a Marcher that hates Orlais, and I had reason to dislike that pit of fops already. I think the three-way forced alliance is my favorite outcome. It's the sort of druffalo fodder that Orlais deserves.

[Falcon084]

I tried siding with Gaspard last night. If you like Blackwall don't do it! He just walks away from the inquisition calling you bullies and murderers. 

 

Did anyone put Briala in charge?

[Master Warder Z_]

That's not how nature works, nor is the chimpanzee somehow inherently inferior to man.

I find that people who say this seem to believe that they are the mighty, and then quickly recant when they realise they're not.

Chimpanzees fling their own fecal waste.

Mankind used them to test space craft.

Fecal waste and space craft.

Oh yes definitely, both species are as they were 70,000 years ago.

Oh wait... They aren't.

Mankind evolved.

And on the second note, I honestly don't care what you believe about me.

[Master Warder Z_]

I tried siding with Gaspard last night. If you like Blackwall don't do it! He just walks away from the inquisition calling you bullies and murderers.

Actually to my knowledge, the surefire way to boot blackwall is to exile the Wardens

[TheRevanchist]

And The Masked Empire made it pretty clear she is terrible at it, As did the whole thing in Kirkwall spiraling out of control and her doing absolutely nothing about it despite reports she was keeping an interest in the situation and despite the massive influence Orlais has over The Chantry.
Just because the scholars compare her to Drakon and call her savior doesn't make it so, I mean the lore also says Alistair is popular and hardened Alistair is an efficient ruler, Yet the evidence makes it very clear he is easily the worst political entity in the entire series.

"Rebellion in the south? Public Response? Do nothing, Actual Response personally lead Urban combat mission with a few thousand men" *slow clap*
"Mage/Templar rising tensions and possible war, Response? Ehh let Justinia handle it"
"Hmm I could totes obsorb Ferelden by marrying Cailan and easily take the country...Hmm actually nvm he's married"
"Gaspard being rebellious? Alienate the lower nobility and insult the Chevaliers sounds like the way to fix that!"
"Play suitors to keep alliances and keep rivals at bay? Lol this plan can totes work forever!"
"Political infighting? Lets promote it and get involved! That'll work out well"
Then theres the scenes of what is essentially "What does the court want? What does the court want? What does the court want? What do they think?"

As for taking the throne, She did that with the help of her skillful and influencial allies Duke Prosper de Montfort and Lady Mantilion. The unrest in Orlais starting after Prosper's death is no coincidence imo, The demonstrated incompetence of Celene wasn't going to hold up the country on its own.
 

 

So what exactly makes Alistair the worst person ever to be King exactly? All we have is the DAO Epilogue slide that says he is amazing, and his cameo in DA2 that basically means nothing either way, and his DAI cameo where he is disgusted by the mages. Nothing suggests he is a shitty King. So please elaborate with things that do not involve Bioware's personal canon which does not apply to most of our imports.

[Lumix19]

Chimpanzees fling their own fecal waste.

Mankind used them to test space craft.

Fecal waste and space craft.

Oh yes definitely, both species are as they were 70,000 years ago.

Oh wait... They aren't.

Mankind evolved.

And on the second note, I honestly don't care what you believe about me.

The misconception is this glorification of evolution as some sort of "tree" which humanity is somehow farther along than other species. Evolution doesn't work like that, it's not goal oriented. Chimpanzees have evolved too, they just haven't done so in the way humans have. The glorification of humanity because somehow "nature" has selected us as "the best" is misguided, our existence is just as fragile as any other species. Tomorrow an epidemic could wipe out humanity and leave the chimpanzees untouched, putting yourself above them "because of evolution" is incorrect.

[TK514]

Celene's only real victories in The Game are having allies that are really good at it and claiming their successes as her own to cover how bad she is at it without them.

[Augustei]

You're right in that it's not enough time to fully recover from the Blight, since the land itself takes centuries to fully recover if it ever does.  However, look at Redcliffe 10 years after the Blight and the undead assault, it's doing fairly well.  There are a few codex entries that talk about Denerim feeling the lingering effect of the Blight, but nothing that says they're struggling to survive or on the brink of dying, so I think they would put up a hardy fight.

 

Keep in mind that the "Prince" that was killed was most likely one of the Merchant Princes of Antiva, which means they're not royalty, just incredibly wealthy and influential, so they're not going to war over one of those guys being killed.  Oh, and Isabela is the one who actually killed him.

 

He also does not announce himself as King to them all, just to the one guy that he wanted information from.  While possible others found out who he was, we have no proof of that, and I would hardly call that "risking war."  I would surmise that Tevinter didn't even have knowledge of what the guy was doing, based on the way Tevinter Magisters go off and do their own thing so often.

 

I'll grant you that going off on this journey was not the smartest move, but for my game, he's married to Anora and if he died she would get what she wanted with no one to contest her selection as Queen.

 

The talks with Orlais were peace talks, so he did not risk war by behaving like...well, like Alistair.  Josephine says that it was no easy to keep talks from spiraling out of control, not a struggle to pull them off, so that's in no way "risking war" either.

 

Even if the Chevalier class does want war, they're not going to go to war without their Empress declaring it.  The only way for that to happen would for their to be a defection among some of Gaspard's former allies, at which point Orlais and Ferelden would probably both step in, because Celene would not stand for a hint of people defying her wishes/treaties.

 

I also must point out that I said that my canon was a hardened Alistair and Anora together, which is known to be a strong and formidable pairing and effective leaders.  Other combinations of decisions could be more dangerous and risky of war, my point was that for my canon, it's one of the least likely, and that Ferelden would put up a fight against Orlais no matter what, that it wouldn't be a roflstomp victory for them.

Recovering from 2 wars in 10 years quite simply flys in the face of reality, Sure they aren't on the brink of utter collapse. But Ferelden would still be extremely weak

It was confirmed he was the Prince of Antiva and indeed Royalty. I initially thought him to be a simple Merchant Prince as well but alas he is not

He was surronded by Magisters, He wasn't whispering. He risked war when he started putting his sword through Magisters, If you think killing foreign nobles isn't risking war then your wrong.

He risked a break down in the peace talks, if the Inquisition wasn't there they could have failed. The fact that they didn't fail doesn't counter this demonstration of his incompetence

Indeed they can't go to war without The Crowns consent, But they will push for it, maybe make raids into Ferelden if they're willing to risk it, or at the very least support Celenes rivals to the throne (Gaspard wasn't the only one) The Chevaliers are an entire class of the lower nobility, if a pretender got their support it would greatly benefit them.

Ferelden ofc would put up a fight, but as it stands now I cant see the winning.
Both leaders loose favor with the bannorn due to giving the mages sanction, and many of the banns are already looking to Redcliffe instead of Denerim, this devision of power is outlined in the map for witch hunt.
Best combination is either Anora alone or Anora + Warden imo.

[Augustei]

So what exactly makes Alistair the worst person ever to be King exactly? All we have is the DAO Epilogue slide that says he is amazing, and his cameo in DA2 that basically means nothing either way, and his DAI cameo where he is disgusted by the mages. Nothing suggests he is a shitty King. So please elaborate with things that do not involve Bioware's personal canon which does not apply to most of our imports.

I already did, outlining all his foolish actions in the comics where he goes on a personal adventure, killed the prince of antiva, a room full of magisters, and in DAI where he derails the peace talks and puts them at risk of failing. All this suggests he is a shitty king.
His cameo in DA2 also made it a bit evident he was a shitty King, like he was confued and on drugs or something.
"I just showed up here in the Keep having no idea where the power base is looking for an alliance with....someone, and to tell you to protect Kirkwall from...something but I can't tell you what exactly"

[Master Warder Z_]

The misconception is this glorification of evolution as some sort of "tree" which humanity is somehow farther along than other species. Evolution doesn't work like that, it's not goal oriented. Chimpanzees have evolved too, they just haven't done so in the way humans have. The glorification of humanity because somehow "nature" has selected us as "the best" is misguided, our existence is just as fragile as any other species. Tomorrow an epidemic could wipe out humanity and leave the chimpanzees untouched, putting yourself above them "because of evolution" is incorrect.

Your not wrong.

Well you sound like some sort of bleeding heart romanticist but regardless.

Evolution doesn't work on such a concept of goals but nature didn't give humanity more then the basis.

Humanity is what it is because of goals, it survives, it thrives because of goals.

From catching game to collecting roots and berries, Mankind became the supreme domineering species because it has kept marching.

Four thousand years ago humanity had language both spoken and written, eight thousand years ago, Humanity had established settlements, mines, farms, tools.

So is nature the tree by which I judge us? No, for it stopped being the measure long before our ancestors even crawled from their caves.

It is humans that measure humans.

Perhaps God if you want a higher power involved, but anything less is unworthy to even contemplate standing in judgement of humanity.

This very message board on which we converse, the internet, computers, electronics, power, society.

These things are so far beyond anything else on this little pebble by merit of achievement alone humanity is superior.

And as superior beings humans have the right, the divine unalienable right to stand in judgment of our lesser primate cousin along with everything thing else.

Philosophers have argued that the merits of self actualization are what drive humans to destroy everything around them.

I say?

It's our right as superior beings.

This pebble and everything else are mere resources bestowed upon humanity by virtue of it's collective will.

[TheRevanchist]

I already did, outlining all his foolish actions in the comics where he goes on a personal adventure, killed the prince of antiva, a room full of magisters, and in DAI where he derails the peace talks and puts them at risk of failing. All this suggests he is a shitty king.
His cameo in DA2 also made it a bit evident he was a shitty King, like he was confued and on drugs or something.
"I just showed up here in the Keep having no idea where the power base is looking for an alliance with....someone, and to tell you to protect Kirkwall from...something but I can't tell you what exactly"

 

Again, those comics are Bioware's personal canon, that does not apply to our imports. So you have him almost screwing up peace negotiations with Orlais, an incident that statistically could happen to any monarch, since monarchs are capable of mistakes. as for the DA2 cameo, I hardly blame the character for acting strange in a game that was made in like 1 year, considering every cameo and most characters in general in that game was basically worthless and brain dead stupid. 

[Augustei]

Again, those comics are Bioware's personal canon, that does not apply to our imports. So you have him almost screwing up peace negotiations with Orlais, an incident that statistically could happen to any monarch, since monarchs are capable of mistakes. as for the DA2 cameo, I hardly blame the character for acting strange in a game that was made in like 1 year, considering every cameo in that game was basically worthless and brain dead stupid. 

The events of the comics happened in all our imports albeit with variations of events based on our decisions, Varric confirms this by saying how he knows Alistair and the new Arishok (Sten) So all that incompetence and idiocy happened in imports where Alistair was King, like yours.