25 réponses à ce sujet

[SACanuckin Oz]

I wonder if the good people at Bioware might want to provide some insight as to why they decided to remove so many item, armour and clothing options from Inquisition, produced in 2014, compared to Origins, produced in 2009. Most other franchises seem to increase the number of choices and options gamers have within their newer products, so this seem somewhat of an aberration or deviation from the norm to me.

 

I have compiled an overview of some of these (stark) differences between the two games, from information posted on the Dragon Age Wikia website. 

 

Rings:

DA:O: 25 unique (and different) rings in the base game. Another 17 added by Awakenings, and 4 more from Witch Hunt. Total 47 options

DA:I: 10 unique rings, 8 "grey" rings (low level enhancements), and 2 rings adding 30% damage or 30% increased duration for each class (several rings with different names, but they all do the same thing). Total 20 options

 

Amulets:

DA:O: 38 unique rings in base game, 13 more from Awakening, and 1 if Golems of Amgarrak completed (a very good ring btw). Total 52 options

DA:I: 32 rings (many upgrades of lower level amultes, i.e. +2 > +5 > +10

 

Belts:

DA:O: 32 unique belts from base game, 14 from Awakenings, 1 from Golems of Amgarrak. Total 49 options

DA:I: 41 belts (many upgrades of lower level belts)

 

Light Armour:

DA:O: Light armour (open to all classes). 30 in base game (6 restricted to mage or Morrigan). 9 added by Awakenings, 1 added by Witch Hunt. Total 40 options

DA:I: Light armour 30 (8 restricted to race, all restricted to mages only). 2 added by DLC, so total options 32. Not to mention that with the exception of 12, others are all variations of two almost the identical armor sets (battlemage and enchanter)

 

The same can be said about Medium and Heavy armour. One class of armour, namely Massive Chestpieces, completely removed from the game

 

Gloves and Boots:

DA:O: many options, including light, medium, heavy and massive for both

DA:I: completely removed from the game, unless you count arm and leg pieces

 

There is another entire thread devoted to discussion of "boob armour" lacking from the game (which did exist in the previous two Dragon Age games, so to me it seems there are other gamers who feel there are elements of choice and variation removed or lacking from this game compared to previous offerings from your studio.

 

I hope you do read this, and perhaps just share a few thoughts on why you felt this need. Some of us, feel this has diminished the quality of your product compared to an offering made 5 years previously.

 

Thanks 

[Falcon084]

Agreed, There needs to be a lot more difference in the armors. I'm hoping that Black Emporium will change this somewhat. I wouldn't even mind if some of the older DAO and DAII styles made a return along with some new stuff.

[Panda]

I think that Bioware focused so much into creating open world that they had to cut from elsewhere. Armor options were one, although there is system that make all armors have their own look depending on character you put them on, there isn't still much distinction. For example I don't think Cassandra has more than like 5 armor looks? Leather with seeker sign in front, metal with seeker sign in front, GW armor.. I don't now remember more.

 

There is also lack of unique armors. There is couple like one Grey Warden armor, but most of armors aren't that unique and distinct especially for main character. So there doesn't come of this feeling that you are collecting cool set of armor or buying it in really expensive price and it's like totally different from everything else.

[Auztin]

There was unique armor in Origins base game besides from Duty,Juggernaut,Companion specific items that weren't reskins of the same armor and was noticeable?
P.S. Mods don't count.

[Pressedcat]

Just a couple of points/questions:

1: Any chance you could provide a breakdown on how you are differentiating between 'unique' items and 'derivative' ones? With rings for instance, there are dozens of different +30% duration/damage rings available. It seems that dependant on how you classify what is unique and what is not, either DAO or DAI could be made to win that count.

2: You seem to be including all the DLCs and expansion pack for DAO whilst citing only the base game for DAI. I notice that quite often the two base games have similar counts in each category and DAO only wins out when the later content (and special pre order content etc?) is added. This doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

3: You seem to be entirely ignoring the presence of crafting in DAI which means that, whilst there might not be any more armour designs available, you have far more control over what bonuses those sets of armour offer. Less often are you stuck choosing between the armour set you like the appearance of and the set that offers useful bonuses.

That being said, I would definitely welcome the addition of more unique armours and items, particularly unique accessories that have their own history. Added variability can only ever be a good thing.

[Sartoz]

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One can hypothetically construe that Origins was developed from the outset for a PC, then ported to the console. Whereas, subsequent DA games were designed for the console, then ported to the PC and DAI being a "bad" port compared to the two previous ones.

Electronics Arts' Hilleman announced that their games are too hard too learn and EA's game studios (Bioware is one of them) were given their marching orders to simplify the game play mechanics. This was done to make their games have a broader appeal..... appeal to the casual gamer... even reaching to mobile device users. Mobile device users don't have the time to learn how to play a real RPG. These want to jump into the action with both feet from the get go.

For example:
Comparing Path of the Exile to DAI, one can immediately see the difference. PotE is grimy, dirty a Diabloesque environment while DAI is a politically correct super whitewashed game suitable for 10 year olds (ie: read broader appeal). Inventory management brings you back to the style and usefullness of past RPGs (Diablo enyone?). PotE uses the keyboard and mouse like a Maestro conducting a symphony orchestra and I can play by just using the mouse... move, select spell, cast spell, use mana/health pots.. etc... while the keyboard can be used to add other attack spells/options. The effect is to show you the simplification of DAI's game controls.

So, I'm not surprised that DAI has so few equipment options (ie: reduced content).... no need for the console players if the idea is to give the "broader market" the ability to launch the game and play without reading the manual.

 

Edited: for corrections and clarity.

 

PS: Sports games seem to be exempt from this "simplify" theme, probably because Sports is a niche market anyway.  Sport enthisiats love their stats.

Modifié par Sartoz, 03 mai 2015 - 01:18 .

[Inex]

I would also like to have more variety. But you didn't point out the fact that you can remove class restriction if you craft your gear with a rare material (like snoufleur skin or silverite in the armor rating slot). They still look mostly the same though, but with different slots, giving you more variety for resistances, attributes and other bonuses.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Just a couple of points/questions:
1: Any chance you could provide a breakdown on how you are differentiating between 'unique' items and 'derivative' ones? With rings for instance, there are dozens of different +30% duration/damage rings available. It seems that dependant on how you classify what is unique and what is not, either DAO or DAI could be made to win that count.
2: You seem to be including all the DLCs and expansion pack for DAO whilst citing only the base game for DAI. I notice that quite often the two base games have similar counts in each category and DAO only wins out when the later content (and special pre order content etc?) is added. This doesn't seem like a fair comparison.
3: You seem to be entirely ignoring the presence of crafting in DAI which means that, whilst there might not be any more armour designs available, you have far more control over what bonuses those sets of armour offer. Less often are you stuck choosing between the armour set you like the appearance of and the set that offers useful bonuses.
That being said, I would definitely welcome the addition of more unique armours and items, particularly unique accessories that have their own history. Added variability can only ever be a good thing.

1. DA:I has 10 purple (unique) rings. The rest are just damage/duration 30% increases (blue). DA:O no 2 rings were identical, and some (Lifegiver, Ring of Ages) were truly exceptional increasing multiple stats. No ring in DA:I increases more than one stat. The same
Holds true for amulets and belts
2. JoH adds one item to the game in this category, and the Flames of the Inquisition adds one or two more. The DLCs in DA:O offered multiple items, and some (e.g. Battle dress of the Provocateur, Ring of House Dale) would be added to your game after completing the DLC
3. I am not dismissing crafting, but, for instance, gloves and boots were removed, and now you can craft them. Is this better? Maybe, but the base game is still poorer when compared to DA:O. And, given that the game can be modded on PC, which added a crafting station in the game, as well as the armour and weapons crafting available in the base game (Herren), and DLC (Michael), I still feel there was a lot more variety

[Lucirak]

ability rings doesn't work (only one or two works)

[Pondering Drifter]

I don't think the lack of numerous accessories is an issue, however I do think that there is a lack of interesting amulets, rings and belts. Most of accessories we see in game just do standard stat padding. There isn't really anything that is fairly interesting or game changing that adds an extra depth of strategy or character building. I think the closest they get to something more interesting is the token of the packmaster, but that is more of a gimmick than an actual item. If accessories carried abilities like those we see in fade touched materials I would find them more interesting than the standard +5 strength.

 

As for armor, it seems the developers spent too much time making modular armor sets and in consequence there is a lack of distinct styles for us to choose from. I would have rather had several single piece armor sets with comparable stats and unique looks than a single piece of armor that can be slightly modified.

 

While I do like the look some of the companions default armor sets, the inquisitors set doesn't look nearly as good. I think the root of the problem with this is that the inquisitor could be either be one of three different classes, thus the default armor had to be modular so that it could be tailored to any of those three major classes. Comparatively our companions sets did not suffer from this dilemma thus the artists could ensure that the look and feel of their appearance fit well with their class role. For example Blackwall evokes the feeling of a heavily armored knight while Cole's set feels appropriate for a rogue. On the other hand the armor for a warrior inquisitor feels lack luster since it is a just a set of mail with some metal fastenings. The inquisitor armor sets do not have a strong distinct look to them since the base armor had to be compatible across all classes and be modular for arm and leg accessorizes.

[Pressedcat]

1. DA:I has 10 purple (unique) rings. The rest are just damage/duration 30% increases (blue). DA:O no 2 rings were identical, and some (Lifegiver, Ring of Ages) were truly exceptional increasing multiple stats. No ring in DA:I increases more than one stat. The same
Holds true for amulets and belts
2. JoH adds one item to the game in this category, and the Flames of the Inquisition adds one or two more. The DLCs in DA:O offered multiple items, and some (e.g. Battle dress of the Provocateur, Ring of House Dale) would be added to your game after completing the DLC
3. I am not dismissing crafting, but, for instance, gloves and boots were removed, and now you can craft them. Is this better? Maybe, but the base game is still poorer when compared to DA:O. And, given that the game can be modded on PC, which added a crafting station in the game, as well as the armour and weapons crafting available in the base game (Herren), and DLC (Michael), I still feel there was a lot more variety

1: I would certainly agree that DAO had some far more interesting top-tier accessories, both in terms of bonuses offered and background flavour text (though some of the DAI amulets added new mechanics: amulet of the pack or lifeward amulet). However, I'd disagree about 'no two rings were identical': if you can comfortably group all the +30% damage/duration rings together you should also concede that all the +5/+10 elemental damage/defence items are functionally very similar and so can be amalgamated into a couple of 'groupings'. All that truly sets them apart is the flavour text (which again, I'm a big proponent of).

2. Explicitly, my point was that in one case you were enumerating all the content released throughout the entire lifetime of a game (DAO), possibly including content that until fairly recently was only available on certain platforms or through specific pre-order deals, whilst for DAI you failed to make any allowance for the fact that DLC is ongoing.

3. I think you do have to count all the crafting options in DAI, both for the main armour and the 'boots' and 'gloves'. Whilst there were a few crafting options available in DAO, these were far more limited in scope, were part of a DLC, or were a mod available to a subsection of DAO's audience. I would argue that in terms of core games and free DLC available to all, DAI offers VASTLY superior options for CRAFTING arms and armour to suite aesthetics and game mechanics.

In short, I would argue that the differences in item variability in the two games is far less pronounced than you are arguing. Where the games do differ greatly is in flavour-text. This can make two mechanically similar items in DAO feel far more distinct and unique. It is in this aspect that I think DAI suffers.

[Duelist]

In the vanilla DAO, how much of it was useful?

For a Rogue there were a whopping 2 (possibly 4) pairs of gloves that were worthwhile and even then they're vastly outclassed by DAI's best crafted variant.

Same deal with chestpieces, helmets and boots.
You had one vastly superior piece and at most two reasonable substitutes, all of which are outclassed by the best crafted armour in DAI (or purple pieces when it comes to helmets).

As for the rest of the accessories, for a Rogue, most rings, belts and amulets were useless and are vastly inferior to their DAI counterparts.

More doesn't necessarily mean better.

[b10d1v]

Behind schedule and out of time -it that so hard to believe?

[SACanuckin Oz]

As for the rest of the accessories, for a Rogue, most rings, belts and amulets were useless and are vastly inferior to their DAI counterparts.

More doesn't necessarily mean better.

Rings in DA:I only affect one stat. All these rings from DA:O affect multiple stats that definitely are very useful to rogues: Harvest Festival (3 stats improved, Key to the City (3 stats improved), Lifegiver (5 stats improved including combat health regeneration), Ring of Ages (20% resistance to all 5 elemental damages - this one ring does more than the entire "collect shards" quest items together), The Wicked Oath (3 stats improved),Ring of the warrior (2 stats +2). Link: http://dragonage.wik...Rings_(Origins)

 

Amulets in DA:I only affect one stat All these from DA:O affect multiple stats very useful to a rogue: Magister's Shield (3 stats),  Mark of Vigilance (3 stats), Pearl of the Anointed (+1 all stats), The High Regard of House Dace (5 stats improved), Nature's Blessing (3 stats improved), Scouts' Medal (4 stats improved), Seeker's Chain (3 stats improved incl. +2 all stats), Spirit Cord (4 stats improved). Link: http://dragonage.wik...ulets_(Origins)

 

I can do the same for Belts (Link: http://dragonage.wik...lts_(Origins)),but it should be pretty obvious that your statement has no basis in truth.

 

And less means less, in terms of variety, usefulness, etc. - which is what this post is about. You are absolutely correct though, more doesn't mean better: in DA:I there are 35 rings that all either increase ability damage by 30%, all ability duration by 30%. I consider that useless

[SACanuckin Oz]

In short, I would argue that the differences in item variability in the two games is far less pronounced than you are arguing. 

Please compare for yourself:

Rings: DAO http://dragonage.wik...Rings_(Origins) vs DAI  http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Rings_(Inquisition)

Amulets: DAO http://dragonage.wik...ulets_(Origins) vs DAI  http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)

Belts: DAO http://dragonage.wik...Belts_(Origins) vs DAI  http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Belts_(Inquisition)

 

As Duelist pointed out: "More doesn't necessarily mean better", you can see that all these items in DAO are (generally) superior to the options in DAI.

 

I'll grant (and admit) that the crafting of armour and arm/leg pieces offered customization that was welcome (although I am very disappointed by the lack in appearance variety), and useful. I am mainly trying to focus on accessories here, which has been a big disappointment compared to previous games by this franchise.

[Duelist]

Rings in DA:I only affect one stat. All these rings from DA:O affect multiple stats that definitely are very useful to rogues: Harvest Festival (3 stats improved, Key to the City (3 stats improved), Lifegiver (5 stats improved including combat health regeneration), Ring of Ages (20% resistance to all 5 elemental damages - this one ring does more than the entire "collect shards" quest items together), The Wicked Oath (3 stats improved),Ring of the warrior (2 stats +2). Link: http://dragonage.wik...Rings_(Origins)

Amulets in DA:I only affect one stat All these from DA:O affect multiple stats very useful to a rogue: Magister's Shield (3 stats), Mark of Vigilance (3 stats), Pearl of the Anointed (+1 all stats), The High Regard of House Dace (5 stats improved), Nature's Blessing (3 stats improved), Scouts' Medal (4 stats improved), Seeker's Chain (3 stats improved incl. +2 all stats), Spirit Cord (4 stats improved). Link: http://dragonage.wik...ulets_(Origins)

I can do the same for Belts (Link: http://dragonage.wik...lts_(Origins)),but it should be pretty obvious that your statement has no basis in truth.

And less means less, in terms of variety, usefulness, etc. - which is what this post is about. You are absolutely correct though, more doesn't mean better: in DA:I there are 35 rings that all either increase ability damage by 30%, all ability duration by 30%. I consider that useless

See the thing with rogues is that significantly increasing crit damage or crit chance is far more efficient than increasing several stats and in the vanilla DAO (as I specified in the post you're quoting), there is nothing that comes close.
Increasing your killing power is always the best means of building a rogue and that means focusing on two stats at most, even then only to a certain point.

Same deal with belts, although a Tonic Belt will at least give you more Mighty Offense Tonics to carry which can boost crit damage by 100%, again far better than anything in the vanilla DAO.

Same deal with amulets, the extra Dexterity from a superb amulet means an extra 10% attack and crit damage which means more killing power.
Again, the extra killing power from Dexterity alone is far more useful than anything in vanilla DAO.

In closing, and I don't mean to sound snarky, your post gives me the impression you don't play a rogue since boosting your offensive power has always been superior to boosting several stats at once.
More really isn't better for a rogue at least since the gear in DAI far outclasses anything in DAO .

[In Exile]

There was unique armor in Origins base game besides from Duty,Juggernaut,Companion specific items that weren't reskins of the same armor and was noticeable?
P.S. Mods don't count.

 

Those weren't unique. Bioware had something like 7-8 rigs, and that was it. All of the unique looking armour were justs reskins. 

[KaiserShep]

Eh, a lot of the stuff in Origins tended to be chaff and "unique" stuff tended to just be the same kind of ring, amulet, belt or armor that just had slightly different stats to the same effect, and my inventory got full of duster boots and crappy studded or rough leather gloves or armors. Does anyone miss that splintmail armor that Alistair starts with? I sure as heck don't. I don't recall getting anything really decent until I gave Varathorn that iron bark, and when I later killed Sophia Dryden's demon-y corpse to loot the Warden-Commander armor, which was just a reskin of the regular heavy armor you loot from everything else. Throughout the entirety of the single-digit level climb, it was just a lot of the same stuff and I was glad to run into Old Tegrin to dump some of that junk.

 

The only thing that truly bugs me about DA:I is the randomness of certain items, particularly schematics, but I'll gladly take mats, crafting and now the tinting over what we had in the past.

[Rawgrim]

I am not sure if DA:O actually has more outfits and whatnot than DA:I. But it looks like it has more, because it doesn't have those silly class restrictions.

[SACanuckin Oz]

I liked how even the icons of most items were unique, and not simply another blue/purple identical looking icon.

 

I like that they affected multiple stats.

And, yes, in regards a comment from Duelist, I generally play a mage character, where improvements in stats make a huge difference in spellpower, etc.

 

I also miss the Skills we had in Origins....sigh.

 

The game has been dumbed down so much IMO.

[Sartoz]

ability rings doesn't work (only one or two works)

 

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Youv'e noticed that too?  I thought I was using them incorrectly.

[Fireheart]

Maybe the designers just ran out of ideas or didn't want to reuse old ones over and over?

 

DA2 had best armor imo. I think it helped that they didn't have to come up with armor that look decent on everybody, they could just focus on armor that fit f/m Hawke the best.

[Auztin]

Those weren't unique. Bioware had something like 7-8 rigs, and that was it. All of the unique looking armour were justs reskins.

Yeah.True.

[JaneLunaC]

Yeah, I wish we had more unique armor skins to wear, I love all the different ones in the game, just wish there were more of them

 

 

And I wish the templar armor had light, medium, and heavy versions,

so for example, a warrior could use the mage or rouge looking one,

(because as of now, the look changes depending on the class that wears it, and it's a bit weird and disappointing considering how all the other armors work)

 

I would've loved to be able to craft each of the different versions to wear for my warrior, but alas I'm stuck with just the warrior version

[hellbiter88]

snip

 

i agree with this analysis. I also remember and now miss the massive armor!!! Good stuff, watching my walking fortress barely able to move around. If aveline had had that armor in DA: 2 ......