Still - GG hurts gaming as a whole in the manner that it conducts itself. By taking the opposite side of an issue that's not really contestable - regarding the portrayals and presence of women in gaming - it adds credence to a group of people that are not truly advancing meaningful criticism and casts them as the heroes in the narrative.
Gamergate does not deny the problem of women in gaming, they just feel that it's not as horrible and sexist as Anita and Brianna Wu claim it is.
Oh, but they do. 'SJWs' attack on geek culture is two-fold. They attack the identities within it as much as the products. No doubt because they've bought into the stereotype that 'geeks' are immature basement-dwelling straight white manchildren who hate women and minorities and like to fantasize about ruling the world. I kid you not, I've seen some of them say pretty much this. Ah, the irony!
Gamergate does not deny the problem of women in gaming, they just feel that it's not as horrible and sexist as Anita and Brianna Wu claim it is.
I think we're talking at too generic a level. What is "the media" here? There's a gulf betweeen Kotaku (which is technically media but not really "the media" in a meaningful sense); I don't recall a BBC segment on gamers.
We have our stereotypes to be sure but the only group harming the image of gamers so far has been GG and - being charitable - the trolls that associate with it.
The issues brought up as criticism of games are mostly just truisms about modern media that are being parroted by people who lack the academic background to meanigfully discuss the terms they use. Taking a stand against these issues - rather than the people who parrot these views and the manner they express themselves - is what harms "gamers". There are problems with the portrayal of women in games. There are few female developers. These are real issues - taking a stand against them is just discrediting. At the same many of the public figures raising these points are wholly ignorant of the actual scientific, sociological, psychological and academic theories sorrounding the issued they raise. Their criticisms often go too far or misunderstand the source material.
Still - GG hurts gaming as a whole in the manner that it conducts itself. By taking the opposite side of an issue that's not really contestable - regarding the portrayals and presence of women in gaming - it adds credence to a group of people that are not truly advancing meaningful criticism and casts them as the heroes in the narrative.
This is not accurate to the situation because it completely ignores the catch 22 going on.
If you criticize the message and narrative that the anti-intellecutal crusaders of social justice push, then like you say it harms the image of gaming because apparently this issue isn;t allowed to be debated or discussed, even rationally.
But if you criticize the people saying this stuff, then you get labeled a bigot. Don't like Anita Sarkeesian's points and want to critique them? Then you get labeled a harasser who hates women. Want to talk about the possible ethics violations involving Zoe Quinn? Then your just a mysoginist trying to shame women expressing their sexuality. Enough people get together to try and raise awareness of the issue they have with these people? "Gamers Are Dead" from all the major gaming publications.
You can't win. And that's why GG has gone on, and why it's not going away. Why the image of gamers and gaming is constantly "hurt". The powers that be have rigged the game so you can't disagree with them. They had a label for you before GG came up, and they'll have a label for you after, but either one means the same thing. Into the trash, you go.
Based on everything I've seen - in this thread alone - that denial is pretty much at the core of the dispute. We're not having an argument here about how developers have failed; one side is saying there's no real failure.
Really? All I'm seeing are rants about how "SJW's" must be stopped.
Based on everything I've seen - in this thread alone - that denial is pretty much at the core of the dispute. We're not having an argument here about how developers have failed; one side is saying there's no real failure.
There is no "problem with women in gaming" whatever that is supposed to mean. They game, they don't, it doesn't matter, the world keeps on spinning. For all of the problems in the industry all of this feminist nonsense isn't one of them.
Really? All I'm seeing are rants about how "SJW's" must be stopped.
If you have the chance to cure a cancer, it's either you using it or uncaring.
Personally I have more than one concern, this filth could pollute my daughter's mind, if I had a daughter.
The biggest farce anti-GG SWJs have foisted on the public is....shocker, here it comes - there are internet trolls. This is an endless source of ammunition for them. As if GG invented internet trolls. Anita and Zoe would be nowhere without them. OF course the obligatory white knights make it all happen.
They're right about internet trolls though;there are a ton of them. Where they are wrong and its sad to see is they push the narrative that anyone who disagrees with them is-
A. One of those internet trolls or
B. Worth as much as those internet trolls
And that sucks to see. I wish both sides would unite against the third party that takes advantage of everyone.
Who started this Gamergate nonsense?
Gamergate does not deny the problem of women in gaming, they just feel that it's not as horrible and sexist as Anita and Brianna Wu claim it is.
That is not my experience. While some members or sympathizers of GG do what you say, the most vocal segments most definitely deny that there's any sort of problem, along with a copious amount of colorful comments towards the ''SJW'' plague that threatens to rupture society apart or something along those lines.
Myself, I do think there's some issues with women representation in gaming (nowhere near as hacks like Anita say it is, of course) and that important segments of gaming communities are somewhat rightly percevied as borderline sexist boy's clubs. This is something that, IMO, if worth talking about if we want the medium to be perceived as anything else than something aimed at fat nerds. But the moment you open your mouth about the subjet, the shrill fanatics on both side leap into the fray and happily tear each other to pieces, while I just resolve to never bring up the subject again in disgust. The whole topic has become an endless battlefield.
Then again, video games aren't the only medium that have said issues. I could name several movies or TV shows that don't portray women in a way I personally liked, for various reasons. The difference is, discussion about those never seem to reach anywhere near the level of sheer hatred it does with the whole GG vs anti-GG circus.
They're right about internet trolls though;there are a ton of them. Where they are wrong and its sad to see is they push the narrative that anyone who disagrees with them is-
A. One of those internet trolls or
B. Worth as much as those internet trolls
And that sucks to see. I wish both sides would unite against the third party that takes advantage of everyone.
There is no third party, Prince. You've got both sides and trolls on both sides. But one side has put forth a better argument. That's Gamergate. I invite any yahoo to explain how SJdubs have done better, without playing the soggy knees card. They haven't. They consistently haven't from the beginning. It's always gamers are sexist...but we don't have any proof of that.
Judging groups on their worst 'associates' is a bad idea. It's like judging a population because of their serial killers.
A better analogy would be judging a religion because of hateful extremists. Both sides have their asshats, it just seems that most of the public face of anti-gamer gate is a bunch of them.
Anita makes me raise my eyebrow, her arguments seem extremely biased and agenda filled and I don't mean for pushing for equality for women representation in video games.
I'm not so sure about Brianna since I don't follow it that well. She created a game with hypersexualised female characters. (if she's lambasted people for sexualised female characters then she's a hypocrite)
Arthur Chu is ... how do you say it? A prime example of someone who likes screaming until he gets his way. If you look at his actions on Twitter in regards to the gamergate meet up.
Then on the GamerGate side we have Christina Hoff Sommers who's been sent death threats by 'feminists' and harrassed when her husband died. Totalbiscuit initially stayed neutral until everyone started jumping on him for not taking a side and he was slowly pushed towards pro Gamergate. Another youtuber who was doing both sides of the conflict got blacklisted from anti-GamerGate supporters because he was apparently supporting harassment by allowing pro-GamerGate people on his show to deliver his side of the story.
Saying that the other side is perfectly clean is... just blind and ignorant. The other side is kinda worse since the public faces don't allow discussion. But both sides do the whole death threat, harassment thing.
It's essentially feminists and gamers VS neo-feminists and gaming media.
oh god, I don't even think it's worth the effort to even dive into this.
oh god, I don't even think it's worth the effort to even dive into this.
All you really need to know about the subject.
Stuff happened.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
oh god, I don't even think it's worth the effort to even dive into this.
Then for the sake of your sanity stay out of this.
I hear about this Anita lady and Gamergate a LOT these days and whenever I think I should do some research on this, a little voice in my head says that I REALLY shouldn't. ( I believe it's the Force warning me )
But I'm tried of being left in the dark, so can someone give me a short summary of what the **** is going on this time?
The force is telling you something? Then listen to it!
The force is telling you something? Then listen to it!
I hear about this Anita lady and Gamergate a LOT these days and whenever I think I should do some research on this, a little voice in my head says that I REALLY shouldn't. ( I believe it's the Force warning me )
But I'm tried of being left in the dark, so can someone give me a short summary of what the **** is going on this time
Google. How hard is it to Google?
Ignorance is bliss, right?
Google. How hard is it to Google?
Google. How hard is it to Google?
I don't want to dirty up my web history. I already have enough porn
Lies.
You cannot have enough porn!
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