385 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Fast Daughter is about right. Been watching her all morning, letting Fast Mommy sleep in for Mother's Day. I can hardly keep up with her (she just got out of the shower after being covered with mud from playing outside, now she is covered in peanut butter and jelly from lunch - too fast to catch).


Happy Mother's Day to all the GG and feminists alike.

 

LPMom is at work, when she gets back I'll have bought us pizza and we'll be watching Once Upon A Time and Game of Thrones together as we do every week.

 

As for right now, I'm home alone with a freshly made protein shake(a cup of whole milk, half a cup yogurt, one scoop protein powder, eyeballed two tablespoons peanut butter though I probably put in a wee bit less, one banana, six strawberries. Came out to just short of 24 oz, tastes damned good ) and am about to workout.

 

Though there will be forum posting throughout the day. Probably some on this subject again.

 

Still, Happy Mother's Day to you and yours and everybody's mums!

[In Exile]

You're kidding with this, right. Of course it's being debated in "serious academic circles"- because a large part of academia these days revolves around "discovering" i.e. perpetuating identity politics themes. The same mentality dominates in the media. If there were an actual honest debate, maybe we'd get somewhere. Instead, the issue is so pre-loaded with emotion-based politics that there can be no actual analysis.

 

That's a mischaracterization. It's partly my fault for not clarifying what I mean by "serious academic circles", which is really a meaningless buzzword (my bad). I'm not talking just about the critical theory types - that's where you get a lot of the silly rhetoric. I'm talking about policy-making, legal academia, economics/finance, etc. I personally don't take critical theories - what's considered the core of feminist thought by outsiders - particularly seriously, but that doesn't at all exhaust the actual meaningful academic discussion on gender representation in the market. 

 

 

Okay I gotcha. You're saying that there's a lack of women coming into the industry.

 

Numbers please. Thank you. Otherwise argument is invalid.

 

Also I DON'T want female developers. I WANT good developers if they're female, male, trans, llama I don't care. All I care is the final product.

 

1. The answer appears to be 22%. This required absolutely no effort to discover, and is such an openly known fact it's absurd to ask for a citation for it. I couldn't find a direct link to the study but it is put out by the International Game Developers Association. We have companies like Intel investing money in this issue. 

 

2. The last point is just nonsensical absurd. At no point did I say that women should be in the industry for the sake of having more women in the industry. I have said, repeatedly, openly and plainly, that by attracting more women to game development you increase the pool of people available to be developers and thereby increase the potential of finding more talent.

[Jorji Costava]

This annoyed me.

After the Gamers Are Dead articles dropped, the hashtag was used as a means of distancing themselves from Zoe Quinn and acknowledging that her impropriety was not central to what the consumer revolt was about. #BurgersAndFries was the ZQ-centric hashtag. That's why "changing the hashtag and focusing on 'ethics' instead" suggestions don't work.

It's already been done.

 

While I've long since reached my saturation point on this topic, I do feel like this should be corrected. The gamergate hashtag originated with a tweet from actor Adam Baldwin on August 27, the day before the wave of "Gamers Are Dead" articles came out. This tweet linked directly to Internet Aristocrat's videos covering the Quinnspiracy (all of this information is as per Know Your Meme). Since then, there has been no serious attempt to rebrand GG under a new name to distance itself from the Quinnspiracy that I know of.

[In Exile]

Like, you don't even know about "It's actually about ethics in game journalism" do you? How gamergate did precisely what you said they should do, and their opposition mocked them for it and simply dismissed them as liars, like they did all those women and minorities who came out in support of gamergate.

 

Honestly? It's like I'm back in September 2014. Man, I don't usually get Deja Vu but wow.

 

Gamersgate most certainly did nothing on this point. They have - in the most charitable way, if we disregard everything vile associated with people who use the hashtag - selectively targeted indie developers and their relationships with some minor publications. And, of course, the truth is that the vast majority of stuff - indeed the vast majority of stuff in this thread  - is about largely inchoate rants targeted at so-called "SJWs". People say that they're aligned with GG, but no one here is talking about anything "ethics in journalism" related. It's all rants about SJWs, political correctness, LGBT issues. It's hard to believe this is the "real" issue when it gets exactly 0 coverage in any GG related topic. 

 

Let's use the best example of shoddy "journalism" here - the article written by Leigh Alexander. There really wasn't particular merit to that article, and it was an inchoate rant. That had nothing to do with any kind of financial collusion in the industry.

 

The other so-called victories by GG all focus on the indie development scene. A group of largely irrelevant and arrogant developers who want to break into the industry being chummy with reviewers for their products. 

 

Whereas the actual collusion - the obscene amounts of money being pushed by companies like EA etc. into favourable reviews for their poor titles, which push sales - gets absolutely no coverage. We did have gamers actually take a stand on these issues at one point - the ME3 ending fight being a great one (or the Dorito thing over Dmc, which was another example of the industry pissing on its consumers). But GG is not an example of anyone fighting the power. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

While I've long since reached my saturation point on this topic, I do feel like this should be corrected. The gamergate hashtag originated with a tweet from actor Adam Baldwin on August 27, the day before the wave of "Gamers Are Dead" articles came out. This tweet linked directly to Internet Aristocrat's videos covering the Quinnspiracy (all of this information is as per Know Your Meme). Since then, there has been no serious attempt to rebrand GG under a new name to distance itself from the Quinnspiracy that I know of.

 

The sentiment I see is one I can't really fault them for. It's "why bother, the other sides just going to do the same thing, again". And honestly, I can't really say they're wrong either. Anyone who so much as even gives gamergate any sort of non-condemning coverage, even a "there's good and bad on both sides" neutral response, gets crucified on social media as complacent to a hate group, and then doxxed, and then blacklisted by people contacting anyone who'll associate with that person to "inform them that they're associating with a known hate group supporter, and thus will be judged accordingly".

 

Even if the entirety of gamergate changed its hashtag to something like "MoreEthicsNow", they'd just get blasted as "misogynistic liars and harassers". There's no winning the PR war, and there never was to begin with. When everyone who disseminates information bands together against a group, that group is never going to get their accomplishments out, and will always have their faults, real or imaginary, blasted for all to see.

[Isichar]

The sentiment I see is one I can't really fault them for. It's "why bother, the other sides just going to do the same thing, again". And honestly, I can't really say they're wrong either. Anyone who so much as even gives gamergate any sort of non-condemning coverage, even a "there's good and bad on both sides" neutral response, gets crucified on social media as complacent to a hate group, and then doxxed, and then blacklisted by people contacting anyone who'll associate with that person to "inform them that they're associating with a known hate group supporter, and thus will be judged accordingly".

 

Even if the entirety of gamergate changed its hashtag to something like "MoreEthicsNow", they'd just get blasted as "misogynistic liars and harassers". There's no winning the PR war, and there never was to begin with. When everyone who disseminates information bands together against a group, that group is never going to get their accomplishments out, and will always have their faults, real or imaginary, blasted for all to see.

 

There's no way to win in this.

 

Even by saying "**** the whole argument between the two" there are people who see that as me saying I don't care if **** shaming goes on or I don't care if journalists blatantly lie (both of which are comments I received after my last statement in this thread)

 

Basically until you completely and utterly agree with one side (even if you don't) they see it as opposing their righteous beliefs. That's all this is, a giant mud slinging fest to shame everyone else into thinking the way they do.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

only big thing i dissagre whith wnit the Aggros is the Victim Culture, Complex and Narritve.

Look at that thing at Dragon Con a year or so back at a Women in Games pannel.(BTW Worst Patriarchy ever.)

where a woman asks about getting in to Games Development. the Pannel just gave her all this scaremongering speal.

and scared her sh*tless.

if thay want more women in gameing. why not try not scareing them away whith scaremongering.

the Litterery Whos dont care about women or anyone all thay want is power and screw the rest.

[slimgrin]

only big thing i dissagre whith wnit the Aggros is the Victim Culture, Complex and Narritve.

Look at that thing at Dragon Con a year or so back at a Women in Games pannel.(BTW Worst Patriarchy ever.)

where a woman asks about getting in to Games Development. the Pannel just gave her all this scaremongering speal.

and scared her sh*tless.

if thay want more women in gameing. why not try not scareing them away whith scaremongering.

the Litterery Whos dont care about women or anyone all thay want is power and screw the rest.

Seems scaring women is one of their top priorities. 

[SmilesJA]

Fast Daughter is about right. Been watching her all morning, letting Fast Mommy sleep in for Mother's Day. I can hardly keep up with her (she just got out of the shower after being covered with mud from playing outside, now she is covered in peanut butter and jelly from lunch - too fast to catch).


Happy Mother's Day to all the GG and feminists alike.

 

Happy Mother's Day to you too!

[Giantdeathrobot]

Gamersgate most certainly did nothing on this point. They have - in the most charitable way, if we disregard everything vile associated with people who use the hashtag - selectively targeted indie developers and their relationships with some minor publications. And, of course, the truth is that the vast majority of stuff - indeed the vast majority of stuff in this thread  - is about largely inchoate rants targeted at so-called "SJWs". People say that they're aligned with GG, but no one here is talking about anything "ethics in journalism" related. It's all rants about SJWs, political correctness, LGBT issues. It's hard to believe this is the "real" issue when it gets exactly 0 coverage in any GG related topic. 

 

Let's use the best example of shoddy "journalism" here - the article written by Leigh Alexander. There really wasn't particular merit to that article, and it was an inchoate rant. That had nothing to do with any kind of financial collusion in the industry.

 

The other so-called victories by GG all focus on the indie development scene. A group of largely irrelevant and arrogant developers who want to break into the industry being chummy with reviewers for their products. 

 

Whereas the actual collusion - the obscene amounts of money being pushed by companies like EA etc. into favourable reviews for their poor titles, which push sales - gets absolutely no coverage. We did have gamers actually take a stand on these issues at one point - the ME3 ending fight being a great one (or the Dorito thing over Dmc, which was another example of the industry pissing on its consumers). But GG is not an example of anyone fighting the power. 

 

That is one of my beefs also. Games journalism is by and large a joke- that is pretty much transparent. But since GG cannot possibly take on the big boys like IGN and Gamespot (which I don't fault them with, these are big businesses now), those that actually drive sales and influence customers to buy crap, the movement focused on small-time, indie games and publications that basically nobody outside of that specific sphere knows or cares about. So whatever good intentions there are (RE ethics in journalism) seem to be wasted on targets so small and insignificant that any change (or ''victory'') is akin to declaring yourself a master hunter because you shot a sleeping pigeon.

 

Meanwhile, the more blatant abuses (such as the ''deal'' surrounding Shadow of Mordor or Nintendo wanting only approved sycophants making videos of their games, to say nothing of woefully unfinished games like AC: Unity) need to be brought on by other souces, usually Youtube personalities like Jim Sterling or TotalBiscuit. Who already did that stuff before GG. So it seems to me like the entire thing was a giant waste of time, blood, sweat and tears.

[The Invader]

There's no way to win in this.

Even by saying "**** the whole argument between the two" there are people who see that as me saying I don't care if **** shaming goes on or I don't care if journalists blatantly lie (both of which are comments I received after my last statement in this thread)

Basically until you completely and utterly agree with one side (even if you don't) they see it as opposing their righteous beliefs. That's all this is, a giant mud slinging fest to shame everyone else into thinking the way they do.

Seems strangely appropriate.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

As much as I would like to see a debate, GG can't even discuss their favourite pizza toppings amongst themselves without Brianna Wu screaming about it being a harassment operation and sites like The Mirror UK accusing GG of using it as a cover to harass Anita Sarkeesian while making the "actually it's about ethics" quip.

That said, I think the work currently going on with the SPJ is very promising.

[SnakeCode]

As much as I would like to see a debate, GG can't even discuss their favourite pizza toppings amongst themselves without Brianna Wu screaming about it being a harassment operation and sites like The Mirror UK accusing GG of using it as a cover to harass Anita Sarkeesian while making the "actually it's about ethics" quip.

 

I thought the SJWs cannibalised Wu? After she had lunch with some "misogynist" games dev or something.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

As much as I would like to see a debate, GG can't even discuss their favourite pizza toppings amongst themselves without Brianna Wu screaming about it being a harassment operation and sites like The Mirror UK accusing GG of using it as a cover to harass Anita Sarkeesian while making the "actually it's about ethics" quip.

That said, I think the work currently going on with the SPJ is very promising.

What the hell has she got to do with ANYTHING?

[Commander Rpg]

Who is this Brianna Wu and who the hell cares about her, moaning on disadvantaged people?

 

"You shall not revile the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind; you shall fear your God: I am the Lord." (Leviticus)

[Seboist]

Who is this Brianna Wu and who the hell cares about her, moaning on disadvantaged people?

 

"You shall not revile the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind; you shall fear your God: I am the Lord." (Leviticus)

 

Brianna Wu/John Flynt is a nutcase whom is trying to shoehorn himself into this conflict as a means of boosting his game career. He knows that without it, he's destined to wallow in IOS shovelware obscurity(and chances are, will regardless).

 

The lies he tells are outrageous and aren't even remotely believable either. Case and point, he recently claimed to have been "catcalled" five times prior to one speaking engagement, now tell me, do you believe someone whom like this was catcalled even once ?

 

 

(He's the one on the right)

[Queen Skadi]

As much as I would like to see a debate, GG can't even discuss their favourite pizza toppings amongst themselves without Brianna Wu screaming about it being a harassment operation and sites like The Mirror UK accusing GG of using it as a cover to harass Anita Sarkeesian while making the "actually it's about ethics" quip.

That said, I think the work currently going on with the SPJ is very promising.

 

Seriously? While I agree there are feminists who love to turn everything into a gender issue lets not pretend that gamergaters are any better.

[LPPrince]

What the hell has she got to do with ANYTHING?

 

Eww.

[The Devlish Redhead]

OMG the Gamergate SVU episode aired on local TV here last night.

 

Biggest pile of rubbish in like forever... 

 

I didn't feel sorry for anyone during this episode. Everyone was a douche..

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

OMG the Gamergate SVU episode aired on local TV here last night.

 

Biggest pile of rubbish in like forever... 

 

I didn't feel sorry for anyone during this episode. Everyone was a douche..

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

OMG the Gamergate SVU episode aired on local TV here last night.

 

Biggest pile of rubbish in like forever... 

 

I didn't feel sorry for anyone during this episode. Everyone was a douche..

 

[The Devlish Redhead]

I just new some of you would reply.

 

Really I get what they were trying to say in the episode but I couldn't feel sorry for anyone. Not even the victim because they were given advice but decided "stuff it" I'll do what I want to do.

 

In the end it's a total cop out because she decides to hell with it and ditches her game anyway..

[Cainhurst Crow]

The premise itself is just so ridiculous. The closet thing to whatever-the-hell was the antagonists in that episode is lizard squad. And last I checked they didn't kidnap someone to crash the sony network. Or randomly attack people at E3 because prejudice.

It's like having an episode about a bunch of obese people formed a terrorist group, kidnapping and beating up a fashion model because of fat shaming and made that ISIS style video. "Go Home Shamer Girl" And Ice T talking about what a Foodie is, and how just because he enjoys a good meal now and then doesn't mean he can't tell whats real and whats delicious.

Edit

Actually its even dumber. Since its trying to frame women being new to gaming, a lie already, and make it like the establishment fighting the newcomer, the scenario would be-

A bunch of attractive super models kidnap a more heavily set person and beat them up, tying them up and making them say isis-beheading video style how fat people don't belong in fashion. Ice T explains what "body is beach ready" means and hkw he can hack /Fit-R-It to find their culprits. Ice T explajns how juet because he diets and excercises doesn't mean he can't tell how obesity is not a choice but something your born with. "Fat people in fahsion...what was I thinking?"

[The Devlish Redhead]

The premise itself is just so ridiculous. The closet thing to whatever-the-hell was the antagonists in that episode is lizard squad. And last I checked they didn't kidnap someone to crash the sony network. Or randomly attack people at E3 because prejudice.

It's like having an episode about a bunch of obese people formed a terrorist group, kidnapping and beating up a fashion model because of fat shaming and made that ISIS style video. "Go Home Shamer Girl" And Ice T talking about what a Foodie is, and how just because he enjoys a good meal now and then doesn't mean he can't tell whats real and whats delicious.

Edit

Actually its even dumber. Since its trying to frame women being new to gaming, a lie already, and make it like the establishment fighting the newcomer, the scenario would be-

A bunch of attractive super models kidnap a more heavily set person and beat them up, tying them up and making them say isis-beheading video style how fat people don't belong in fashion. Ice T explains what "body is beach ready" means and hkw he can hack /Fit-R-It to find their culprits. Ice T explajns how juet because he diets and excercises doesn't mean he can't tell how obesity is not a choice but something your born with. "Fat people in fahsion...what was I thinking?"

 

 

Yeah I like this explanation but I got the episode.

 

What about the ending? I felt it was a total copout

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

it was a cop out. the last few lines as well. "I just shoot the bad guys."