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Video Games as Art


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#1
SGT NOOBSTER

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I’m sure that most everyone here has heard the argument, or made it, at least once. My point of view might be a little different from what some people probably take. I am no merely looking at the visuals, though they are still a part of it; I am looking more at the story. Specifically, how the story makes you feel. Art, in whatever other form you look at, is basically supposed to provoke an emotion or thought.

 

Just to give some background on me: all the games I mention I have played and thoroughly and enjoy quite a lot (the exception being Two Worlds). Some I have spent hundreds of hours in and have many, many characters.

 

Visuals:

I know that I said that I was focusing more on story, but this is still important. Look at Destiny. It is mostly competitive play, but still has a decent story. It could have some improvements, yes, but it still drew you at least a little. I happen to like it, others barely touched it and went on to MP. For me where Destiny really shines is in the world that they created. It contains some impressive and detailed areas to explore and, some very coo skyboxes.

 

I feel similarly about Dragon Age: Inquisition, though it has a lot more depth with the story. It is an RPG after all. It has some of the best character models I have seen so far. If you have ever looked on the Screenarchery thread, you will know what I mean. There are some fantastic shots there, some look almost real.

Nowadays, a game with mediocre graphics will most likely be over looked, even if it has a very compelling story.

 

Audio:

This is nearly as important as good writing. Anyone that played Two Worlds knows that; decent writing and bad voice acting made a bad game. Without good voice acting a game is bland, even if it had the most amazing story, people would be bored. The score/ soundtrack also play a role; can you imagine Mass Effect or Star Wars without music? Try watching a clip with the music from a scene edited out, it is not the same. You might not even notice it most of the time, it almost plays to your subconscious. Then you hear a piece outside of the game and immediately you are taken to that scene, feeling different than you did five minutes ago. That is a good writer and a good composer working together to create a feeling, to create art.

 

Characters and Story:

This is the important part, what draws you to buy the game in the first place and what will bring you back over and over again. (Unless you are a multiplayer addict.)

 

Before I get into anything really controversial, I want to mention Halo: Reach. In my opinion this is as close to a perfect story a first-person shooter has ever gotten. The first attempt Bungie had at giving faces, feelings, and names to your entire squad (ODST), tripped and stumbled its way through the story. It was not a bad story, just poorly executed. Reach really made up for it, even though you know already have pretty good idea of what is going to happen. The entire story is bleak and grows progressively more hopeless. Even knowing what will inevitably happen you still form a connection with the other Spartans, and you can feel it when you lose one. Reach does a pretty good job of showing the bleakness of war and sacrifice. Some deaths you can rationalize away, Jorge for example. The other characters do, “He just sacrificed himself thinking he just saved the planet.” Other hit you when you don’t expect it, like Kat. Yeah, I’ll admit it, at that point I was a little choked up. You don’t see it coming, and not everyone dies in a fight and facing their enemy. But at the end, I felt sorrow and triumphant. You were sad about the loss, but felt good that you accomplished your mission.

 

Inquisition is similar to this. It has a fun ride, some ups and downs. At the end you are left with an adequately triumphant ending. You did what was set before you.

 

Mass Effect

I know where this could end up, and I am going to --try-- to avoid some of the fire. I want to focus on ME3. Why? Because it is the end of Shepard’s story. For two games you have been collecting allies, friends, connections, and enemies; all to stop the Reapers.

You have your friends: Garrus, Ashley, Jack, Miranda, Liara, Wrex, Mordin, Tali, Legion, or maybe you don’t. Maybe they didn’t survive Virmire or the Collector Base. You did not like them anyway, so you killed them off yourself, or you did not gain someone’s loyalty and that cost you someone who you do like. You really like *insert whoever* and decide to pursue your space romance, doing what you can to keep your love life alive, despite mistrust and Shepard’s own troubles.

 

All of this is important to the story. The characters are the people that you may start off hating, and when you actually bother to talk to them and find that they have a fantastic story. Or might think they are awesome from the first line and adore them all the way until you shed a tear when they cure the genophage. (Which I have not heard or read a single thing related to the ‘Curing the Genophage’ arc that was negative.)

 

The characters made Mass Effect. They made the story, and they are part of the reason there was such a…reaction to the ending. Everyone wanted complete closure for their Shepard, their romance, their story. You know what I believe? That is partly what the writers wanted. You got so emotionally invested in the story, in the characters, that you wanted an end tailored for you and nothing else mattered.

 

I believe we got the best ending with the Citadel DLC. It is the best DLC that I have ever played, and in my opinion a proper ending to Shepard’s story. It showcases how good writing can be for a video game, and how they can provoke a reaction from their fans. It is a fun, silly, and emotional part of the game.

 

This is what art does; it provokes a reaction and elicit emotion, even if out of original context.



#2
SGT NOOBSTER

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Reserved for edits and what-not.



#3
Fidite Nemini

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Art isn't a thing. It's a product, plain and simple. Games are products, saying they're also art is redundant and ultimately as pointless as it's irrelevant.


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#4
Draining Dragon

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Considering that decapitated naked people are considered to be art, I daresay video games qualify.

#5
Kaiser Shepard

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First two posts nail it; everything is art, and as such the term isn't indicative of any level of inherent quality.


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#6
CassandraSaturn's Ring

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Bacon as art

 

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#7
ObserverStatus

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I feel that the ESA and its publisher constituents undermine the idea that video games are a fine art by trying to force curators to pay them to let the curators preserve games.



#8
L. Han

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Not trying to undermine you, but does it matter if it's an art or not?



#9
CassandraSaturn's Ring

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Not trying to undermine you, but does it matter if it's an art or not?

 

Depends.

 

This world has two kinds of people. 

 

1.  People who do what they want and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.

2.  People who are reluctant to do what they want for fear of how others will perceive them.

 

OP could be feeling uncultured, unfulfilled and sexually frustrated as a result of his video game addiction.  If he can convince others and himself that his vice is art, he might feel a little less bad about his expanding waistline, thinning hair, yellowing teeth, bundle of used tissues, and pile of unplayed RPGs.



#10
SGT NOOBSTER

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Depends.

 

This world has two kinds of people. 

 

1.  People who do what they want and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.

2.  People who are reluctant to do what they want for fear of how others will perceive them.

 

OP could be feeling uncultured, unfulfilled and sexually frustrated as a result of his video game addiction.  If he can convince others and himself that his vice is art, he might feel a little less bad about his expanding waistline, thinning hair, yellowing teeth, bundle of used tissues, and pile of unplayed RPGs.

 

This is actually part of something I wrote for one of my college classes. I just posted it for reactions, and to see what others thought.

 

It does not bother me if others feel similarly or not. My point was to simply voice a point of view that some games have very good stories that would be just as at home in a novel.

 

And for the how I could be feeling: none of those fit me, sorry to disappoint.



#11
Cainhurst Crow

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Art is such a stupidly overused thing. Creative Expression and Idea Conveyance, Those are things that should be valued.

 

Creative Expression can touch you emotionally, Idea Conveyance can touch how you see the world and look at things. Art is taking a dump on some newspaper and screaming censorship if someone tries to stop you.


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#12
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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Art is creative expression essentially. But creative expression has no inherent positive value attached to it.

Can Video Games be Art? Yes, but so what? One of the most important works of Art in the last century is a can of soup.

It's a worthless term that's used primarily by hipsters who feel socially insecure in the hobby. Not saying OP is one but the Art discussion is a pointless one. Games can be Art, like virtually everything else on the planet can be Art.
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#13
SGT NOOBSTER

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Art is such a stupidly overused thing. Creative Expression and Idea Conveyance, Those are things that should be valued.

 

Creative Expression can touch you emotionally, Idea Conveyance can touch how you see the world and look at things. Art is taking a dump on some newspaper and screaming censorship if someone tries to stop you.

 

I understand your point and can agree.

 

Art is creative expression essentially. But creative expression has no inherent positive value attached to it.

Can Video Games be Art? Yes, but so what? One of the most important works of Art in the last century is a can of soup.

It's a worthless term that's used primarily by hipsters who feel socially insecure in the hobby. Not saying OP is one but the Art discussion is a pointless one. Games can be Art, like virtually everything else on the planet can be Art.

 

This was the point I was trying to make.

 

I'm not sure if I am a hipster, I don't think I am anyway. Also, look to my previous post as to the reason I posted in the first place.


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#14
mybudgee

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INTEGRITY!!

* drops mic*
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#15
Guest_AugmentedAssassin_*

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Yes, Videogames are art if they're crafted in such a brilliant way like the Mass Effect series. What do you guys think the definition of art is anyway? Well, If you have studied art history, You'll find that every movement had its own definition of art. It's really just subjective. Regardless of what the postmodernists may say. I agree with the modernist view of art that it's something that's subjective and personal. That it's up to the imagination. Whether you want to make a cinematic universe or a social commentary movie or a TV show or even a videogame, It's just depends how do you think the story would be told the best.


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#16
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Art doesn't come in Mass Production. It's unique.



#17
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Depends.

 

This world has two kinds of people. 

 

1.  People who do what they want and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.

2.  People who are reluctant to do what they want for fear of how others will perceive them.

 

OP could be feeling uncultured, unfulfilled and sexually frustrated as a result of his video game addiction.  If he can convince others and himself that his vice is art, he might feel a little less bad about his expanding waistline, thinning hair, yellowing teeth, bundle of used tissues, and pile of unplayed RPGs.

Couldn't he just look at the best Hollywood actresses like Kianna Dior, Gianna Michaels, and others to solve that problem?


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#18
Garryydde

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Art doesn't come in Mass Production. It's unique.

E46 M3 says hi.

#19
Kaiser Arian XVII

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I hate 21th century. Teleport me back in time to 19th century or 2th century AD.



#20
CassandraSaturn's Ring

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How the hell would you survive in either of those centuries?



#21
Jorji Costava

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I'd say the main thing here is this: Don't confuse the good art/bad art distinction with the art/non-art distinction. To illustrate, consider an infomercial or an airplane safety video; it would make no sense at all to say that these videos are inferior works of art to Citizen Kane. It's not that they're bad works of art. Rather, it's that they're not even in the business of being evaluated from an aesthetic point of view.

 

So when Roger Ebert argues that video games are not and will never be art, he's not simply saying that all video games are stupid and will never be as good as movies (although he almost certainly believed this); he's saying that video games are destined to fall in the same category as infomercials and safety videos. In other words, he's claiming there's no point at all in evaluating them as good or bad forms of creative expression, because it's inherent to video games that they don't have this kind of expressive power. I disagree with Ebert about this, but I'll probably save discussion of why for another time.


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#22
Kaiser Arian XVII

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How the hell would you survive in either of those centuries?

 

I'm not a wussy like you. Also the laws and restrictions of 21th century suppress my potentials 90%.

Also a short life dedicated to Han, Roman, Parthia or German empire is much better than the BS life I have, addicted to internet and video games and have to tolerate all these crap. But I would most likely have become a minister so a 60 years life would have been perfect for me back then.



#23
Fidite Nemini

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What do you guys think the definition of art is anyway? Well, If you have studied art history, You'll find that every movement had its own definition of art. It's really just subjective. Regardless of what the postmodernists may say. I agree with the modernist view of art that it's something that's subjective and personal. That it's up to the imagination.

 

This is what disqualifies art as being its own thing for me. No consequent definition to go by. You can look at a centuries old painting and they say it's art. You can look at a wall that a guy flung feces at and they say it's art. But all I'm actually seeing is either a painting or a wall with feces flung at it.

 

The cynic side of mine continues to observe that people who use the word art the most are the same people who try to create an illusion of exclusitivity as they try to sell it to someone, as if trying to infer that there's no way another random person could dunk his feces in same paint and fling it at the next wall, or that the little sketch your daughter made with the little stickmen titled mommy and daddy with lots of hearts and sunshine drawn around them couldn't be considered art.

 

They should come up with a distinctive definition about it already, otherwise it's just continuing to be an elusive quality added to something simply to put a horrendous price-tag on it - "yeah it's expensive, but it's ART!!!!".

 

 

_

I recognize this is a polarizating opinion and that a number of people are going to disagree. To preempt any potential clash with otherminded people, I want to emphasize that this is my own opinion and that I don't presume to try force it on others. Anyone is welcome to argue it with me, civilly!


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#24
Undead Han

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I don't agree with a lot of what Ebert had to say in that article, but he was right when he said that there was yet to be a game worthy of comparison with the greatest poems, novels, films, ect. He said in 2010, but it is just as true in 2015.



#25
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I'd say the main thing here is this: Don't confuse the good art/bad art distinction with the art/non-art distinction. To illustrate, consider an infomercial or an airplane safety video; it would make no sense at all to say that these videos are inferior works of art to Citizen Kane. It's not that they're bad works of art. Rather, it's that they're not even in the business of being evaluated from an aesthetic point of view.

 

So when Roger Ebert argues that video games are not and will never be art, he's not simply saying that all video games are stupid and will never be as good as movies (although he almost certainly believed this); he's saying that video games are destined to fall in the same category as infomercials and safety videos. In other words, he's claiming there's no point at all in evaluating them as good or bad forms of creative expression, because it's inherent to video games that they don't have this kind of expressive power. I disagree with Ebert about this, but I'll probably save discussion of why for another time.

 

Well, Honestly, Roger Ebert is an idiot. All the modern day critics are and they really have no appreciation for real, Subjective art. They all have this realist elitist view that movies should all be about social commentary. That there's only type of art and that what expresses and talks about realism. Which is essentially why the Realism movement was created. And that if something challenges that notion, Then they're not art. But honestly, They're all just a bunch of self-righteousness cynical idiots who really know nothing at all about art or its subjectivity. The thing is, Unfamiliar concepts will always bug cynical people, And that has always been the struggle in the art world, The fight between people who want to do something personal and respect subjectivity and ingenuity and encourage the new, "The Avant-garde, Romanticism, Modernism", and people who doesn't like change and prefer just one version of anything. "Realism, Postmodernism". There was an interesting quote in Birdman that what would actually go on in one's life so that they'd become a critic. And another quote from the movie is that a critic is someone who loves the job but can't do it himself and i find that to be quite accurate.