108 réponses à ce sujet

[bEVEsthda]

Ten years from now I'd probably be a filmmaker and I'll say the exact same things I'm saying right now. People doubted that before when i was young. And said that I'd change my mind about a lot of things But nothing happened. I always stay true to my principles, And no, Experience had zero influence on my vision. Just my imagination, Ever since i was 7, Ever since i can remember. As for comic book movies, Nothing wrong with them and they're not like those pointless action movies no matter what anyone says about them. Comic book movies tell stories from their own fictional perception of the world. Believe it or not, It was destined that Marvel would rise to be in the position it's in now. It has been always trying hard for 75 years to create the superhero genre and it has finally brilliantly succeeded.

 

Ah, but my point was that you maybe saw into Marcus' painting because the language was more familiar? Whereas somebody with a different baggage maybe sees the end of once proud things, under a setting sun, in Eva's painting?

[Handsome Jack]

If games are art, then I found the Mona Lisa.

 

[Jstatham1227]

personally just think of art literally as like a painting or something. Not knocking video games for it, doesn't really stick in my mind as art. Then again, the whole concept of what is considered art varies from person to person anyway. 

[Jorji Costava]

That's like saying people watch porn, not to jack off to naked people, but because of the plot. 

 

So you completely failed to respond to anything in my previous post. Worse, your analogy is misleading in every detail.

You seem to have this idea that all games without exception are nothing but pretexts for shooty bits; this is patently false. There are plenty of genres where combat is not the main focus or doesn't feature at all (point-and-click adventures, RPGs, sims, etc.). It's very likely that you think these aren't 'real games,' but then if your analogy were correct, what would it matter? It would be like arguing over whether or not something is 'real porn,' and who cares about that?

Second, even in games where combat and violence feature prominently, these elements are often not the main draw of the game. For example, the original Mass Effect was a successful game despite having some rather questionable combat mechanics. People were drawn in by the characters, setting and overall atmosphere, not just the shooty bits. No one is saying that ME is Shakespeare; that's not the point. The point is that there are ways to enjoy games that have nothing to do with turning off your brain and killing stuff. Notice that this doesn't generally happen with porn; does anyone watch a porno and says, "Well, that was a really good movie, even though the sex scenes were all lame?"

You seem very heavily invested in the idea that there is One True Way to play games, and that anyone who doesn't play games for the exact reasons you do is somehow in violation of the Intergalactic Rules on How to Properly Enjoy Stuff and is therefore a Faker and a Phony. I have no idea why anyone would believe this or why it matters. Heck, who cares if someone actually does want to treat pornos as legitimate works of art? It doesn't affect me at all.

[SGT NOOBSTER]

Every kind of medium is subjective, as everyone has different tastes. I was not even saying that all video games are art, just that some could be viewed in that way.

 

Most people seem to have agreed that it is dependent upon the person viewing it.

[Jock Cranley]

The whole "it's art" is a hot load of bs designed to dismiss criticism and avoid taking responsibility for your work.

 

If you dun goofed, it's art! 

[Gravisanimi]

The whole "it's art" is a hot load of bs designed to dismiss criticism and avoid taking responsibility for your work.

 

If you dun goofed, it's art! 

Nah art can be **** too.

 

Well, sometimes it's literal **** and sometimes its figurative.

[mybudgee]

Nah art can be **** too.

Well, sometimes it's literal **** and sometimes its figurative.

Inb4thatchickwhopaintswithherpoop

[Ridwan]

So you completely failed to respond to anything in my previous post. Worse, your analogy is misleading in every detail.

You seem to have this idea that all games without exception are nothing but pretexts for shooty bits; this is patently false. There are plenty of genres where combat is not the main focus or doesn't feature at all (point-and-click adventures, RPGs, sims, etc.). It's very likely that you think these aren't 'real games,' but then if your analogy were correct, what would it matter? It would be like arguing over whether or not something is 'real porn,' and who cares about that?

Second, even in games where combat and violence feature prominently, these elements are often not the main draw of the game. For example, the original Mass Effect was a successful game despite having some rather questionable combat mechanics. People were drawn in by the characters, setting and overall atmosphere, not just the shooty bits. No one is saying that ME is Shakespeare; that's not the point. The point is that there are ways to enjoy games that have nothing to do with turning off your brain and killing stuff. Notice that this doesn't generally happen with porn; does anyone watch a porno and says, "Well, that was a really good movie, even though the sex scenes were all lame?"

You seem very heavily invested in the idea that there is One True Way to play games, and that anyone who doesn't play games for the exact reasons you do is somehow in violation of the Intergalactic Rules on How to Properly Enjoy Stuff and is therefore a Faker and a Phony. I have no idea why anyone would believe this or why it matters. Heck, who cares if someone actually does want to treat pornos as legitimate works of art? It doesn't affect me at all.

I'll repeat my point, games are entertainment. Meant for fun, and some people come off desperately trying to convince themselves it's art, cause they want their hobby to be taken serious instead of just flat out admitting that they play it for pure entertainment. If you play games (keyword here is play) games to not have fun, but sit down with a notepad and treat it as some avantgarde experience then it's no wonder why games like Gone Home, and Dear Esther exists.

[Queen Skadi]

same could be said of music, movies or books, does not mean they cannot be used to convey some sort of deeper meaning, invoke emotion or touch on controversial subjects, in fact due to their interactive nature of the medium video games can potentially allow users to view things in a different light and experience things in a different way, the player is not just observing things from an outside perspective but is put in the protagonists shoes forcing them to think about what they would do in the situation and confronting them with the consequences, the player is not just observing but experiencing, it is the sort of deeper engagement that gives the video game medium the potential to be quite a powerful artistic medium provided we can unlock it's potential.

 

You seem to have a very narrow view on what video games can be and while I personally am not a fan of Gone Home or Dear Esther I would not say they have no right to exist.

[X Equestris]

I'll repeat my point, games are entertainment. Meant for fun, and some people come off desperately trying to convince themselves it's art, cause they want their hobby to be taken serious instead of just flat out admitting that they play it for pure entertainment. If you play games (keyword here is play) games to not have fun, but sit down with a notepad and treat it as some avantgarde experience then it's no wonder why games like Gone Home, and Dear Esther exists.

And again, being entertainment doesn't stop them from also being art. Shakespeare's plays were written as entertainment, and a way to make money, but that doesn't stop them from being art.

Take the Bioshock franchise, for example. It has a great deal of deeper meaning, and it's pulled off very well. But the gameplay was still entertaining. It did a good job on both.

[Jorji Costava]

I'll repeat my point, games are entertainment. Meant for fun, and some people come off desperately trying to convince themselves it's art, cause they want their hobby to be taken serious instead of just flat out admitting that they play it for pure entertainment. If you play games (keyword here is play) games to not have fun, but sit down with a notepad and treat it as some avantgarde experience then it's no wonder why games like Gone Home, and Dear Esther exists.

 

Well, you sure as heck aren't arguing for it.

 

Anyways, this conversation is going nowhere, and I'm done with it.

[you're as cold as ice]

Art isn't a thing. It's a product, plain and simple. Games are products, saying they're also art is redundant and ultimately as pointless as it's irrelevant.

Art is one of the great turning points in human evolution. There is a reason people find an elephant that can paint exciting.

[Fidite Nemini]

Art is one of the great turning points in human evolution. There is a reason people find an elephant that can paint exciting.

 

Please don't take this as an insult against you specific, but that's stupid superiourity complex drivel. The only great turning points in human evolution were the skill of tool making and the invention/evolution of language. Saying that art is something that seperates humans from common animals is nothing but basking in self-glorification.

[Draining Dragon]

The argument that "it's entertainment, so it can't be art" is nonsense. Art is entertainment.

[Il Divo]

Cause playing games is recreational. I doubt almost anyone gives a **** about the meaning of some level, or written note they find. People just want to have fun being a hero, jumping around, shooting ****, casting spells, or swinging a sword. Even turn based strategy games are in the end just entertainment, there's a stigma though that video games are childish (who gives a ****) and if you ask me, the people that call games are art, are trying to defend themselves against that stigma instead of just admitting that they like to shoot **** up.

 

Is this why many gamers constantly applaud Bioware for their plot and/or characters? I mean sure, not everyone actually thinks this and you'll find the "older Bioware stories were better" types, but even looking at ME3's ending crisis, I don't recall that being a "I want to shoot things up" problem.

 

To be dead honest, I can't think of any game in existence that raised the same level of outcry over bad gameplay that ME3 created as a result of its ending.

[mybudgee]

ME3 was simultaneously the high point AND the low point for Biower

[Jstatham1227]

there's not benefit either way if it is or isn't considered art..............

[nallepuh86]

Art is entertaiment, i dont go to art galleries to just watch art. I go to watch art because it entertains me.

 

personally just think of art literally as like a painting or something. Not knocking video games for it, doesn't really stick in my mind as art. Then again, the whole concept of what is considered art varies from person to person anyway. 

So the textures appears out of thin air? Or models..or animation..

[Jstatham1227]

Art is entertaiment, i dont go to art galleries to just watch art. I go to watch art because it entertains me.

 

So the textures appears out of thin air? Or models..or animation..

 

It's just me. I don't consider a movie to really be art either. But once again, art is subjective the the individual in terms of its interpretation. 

[Seboist]

Art is creative expression essentially. But creative expression has no inherent positive value attached to it.

Can Video Games be Art? Yes, but so what? One of the most important works of Art in the last century is a can of soup.

It's a worthless term that's used primarily by hipsters who feel socially insecure in the hobby. Not saying OP is one but the Art discussion is a pointless one. Games can be Art, like virtually everything else on the planet can be Art.

 

Not only this but Video games are low brow entertainment and are a crap medium for storytelling.

 

Face it kids, some poorly paced story where you spend hours doing mundane things like walking around and killing things(and written by a D grade hack who couldn't cut it in film,tv or literature) or spending half a day in World of Warcraft isn't going to get you or this medium any high praise from society at large.

 

Enjoy for what it is and be content with it.