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Lyrium gives Kieran nightmares


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#1
ModernAcademic

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Why does lyrium give Kieran nightmares?

 

If Morrigan performs the dark ritual, when your mage Inquisitor speaks to Kieran, he says he could never be a templar because lyrium gives him nightmares.

 

There's another character in the lore that also sees things and who has been exposed to lyrium: Sandal. He even makes a prophecy, no doubt a vision generated by the mineral.

 

Lyrium has all sorts of strange properties, being called magic in raw form. But why the nightmares? Why the visions? Who or what provides these visions? And to what end? Is there an end at all to this?


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#2
Jaison1986

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Maybe Sandal is the vessel of some entity like Kieran is, that's why the behave in a rather similar way.



#3
themageguy

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Also, remember that lyrium is also sentient, and was most likely part of the dwarven people who are also connected to the Titans.

Cole mentions some interesting things to a dwarven inquisitor
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#4
themageguy

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Whoops double post

#5
ModernAcademic

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What about the voices in the lyrium? Could lyrium be some sort of conduit for spiritual energy? A mineral that connects spirits to people?

If so, these nightmares could be mental trips forced on people by the lyrium.


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#6
myahele

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Spoilers from WOT 2

 

Spoiler
 

 

Spoiler


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#7
ModernAcademic

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Spoiler

 

 

Lots of questions being answered by that information. Thank you!

 

Indeed, the Old Gods were imprisoned underground. If we consider the Primeval Thaigs are filled with red lyrium, then there's an implied connection there.

 

This might be the missing link. 


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#8
Lady Artifice

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I don't know about specific voices in the lyrium beyond the fact that it's known to "sing." 

 

Spoiler

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#9
Master Warder Z_

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Because he's a pansy.

Only people of discipline, courage and brotherhood can be Templars

#10
ModernAcademic

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Because he's a pansy.

Only people of discipline, courage and brotherhood can be Templars

 

Meredith greatly approves (+15)



#11
Guest_AedanStarfang_*

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I think in the next few Dragon Ages to come we're gonna get a big revelation as in "soylent green is people", only it will be "Lyrium is (missing race)"


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#12
Ariella

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I think in the next few Dragon Ages to come we're gonna get a big revelation as in "soylent green is people", only it will be "Lyrium is (missing race)"

 

Better than Lyrium being the "spice" (Dune) of the Dragon Age series... Dragon droppings anyone?



#13
Gervaise

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Ordinary lyrium has some sort of song of its own.   I'm sure there is a codex where a Templar refers to this.   It is certainly mentioned in the book Asunder.   The same book also talks about the song coming up from the Deep Roads that Cole can hear; which could be the lyrium calling or an old god, who knows.  Kieran is sensitive to many things.   He can sense the magic in your blood if you are an elf.     Poor kid, I think his grandma did him a favour taking the old god spirit/soul from him because the ordinary Kieran seems a nice, well adjusted lad and a credit to his Mum.  


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#14
ModernAcademic

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Ordinary lyrium has some sort of song of its own.   I'm sure there is a codex where a Templar refers to this.   It is certainly mentioned in the book Asunder.   The same book also talks about the song coming up from the Deep Roads that Cole can hear; which could be the lyrium calling or an old god, who knows.  

 

I've been wondering for some time now if there isn't an entrance to the Black City in the Deep Roads.

 

I know this sounds crazy and far-fetched, but think about it: the Old Gods are imprisoned down there and the taint seems to be spreading from the underground prisons (located perhaps in the Primeval Thaigs). 

 

Also, Cole is sensitive to anything coming from the spiritual realm, the Fade. So if he's sensing things from the Deep Roads, then there must be a connection with the Fade in those Thaigs. 

 

But of course, this is all speculation on my part.  :ph34r:



#15
raging_monkey

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It's definitely interesting speculation
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#16
myahele

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Assuming the information in WoT2 is to believed. Then perhaps Sandal could've been an ancient dwarf that was put in stasis ala the Elvhen Sentinals?

 

Either something went wrong or maybe that's just the price for a Dwarf getting magic?


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#17
Statare

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Assuming the information in WoT2 is to believed. Then perhaps Sandal could've been an ancient dwarf that was put in stasis ala the Elvhen Sentinals?

 

Either something went wrong or maybe that's just the price for a Dwarf getting magic?

 

Dwarves are supposedly "of the Stone" so, maybe, something went "right" and Sandal popped out of the Stone as the ancient Dwarves might have (maybe involving the combination of Lyrium and some old magics). I dunno.



#18
Caddius

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I've been wondering for some time now if there isn't an entrance to the Black City in the Deep Roads.

 

I know this sounds crazy and far-fetched, but think about it: the Old Gods are imprisoned down there and the taint seems to be spreading from the underground prisons (located perhaps in the Primeval Thaigs). 

 

Also, Cole is sensitive to anything coming from the spiritual realm, the Fade. So if he's sensing things from the Deep Roads, then there must be a connection with the Fade in those Thaigs. 

 

But of course, this is all speculation on my part.  :ph34r:

Judging from the Codex entry about the dwarf stumbling into a few of the Seven Magisters arguing, post-Black City assault, they popped out in the Deep Roads, which has all sorts of interesting implications.

Something weird is definitely going on with Kieran and his crazy-ass comments on elves, dwarves, and qunari.

"What do you mean, my blood isn't my blood?! I may be a rogue, but I'm not that good."

"...If I find a Titan, could I become taller than Bull? Tell me more, creepy human child."


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#19
Ranadiel Marius

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So I am of the opinion that lyrium is the blood of the Titans aka the Forgotten Ones and that the Old Gods are whisps of the Elven godss' souls, so an Old God soul reacting negatively to lyrium makes sense (at least to me).

As for going deep into the Deep Roads, I suspect that would lead you to the Void rather than the Golden City...or at least the barrier between reality and the Void.

Judging from the Codex entry about the dwarf stumbling into a few of the Seven Magisters arguing, post-Black City assault, they popped out in the Deep Roads, which has all sorts of interesting implications.

I don't think that codex implies they popped out in the deep roads. Based on the number of generations, the dwarf who saw the Darkspawn was alive at most 300 years prior. However according to the verses of the Chant of Light on topic in WoT2, the 7 magisters were scattered by the Archon of the time upon their return. So the dwarf likely viewed three of the Magisters encountering each other for the first time in centuries after the Archon bested them.
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#20
andy6915

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Ordinary lyrium has some sort of song of its own.   I'm sure there is a codex where a Templar refers to this.   It is certainly mentioned in the book Asunder.   The same book also talks about the song coming up from the Deep Roads that Cole can hear; which could be the lyrium calling or an old god, who knows.  Kieran is sensitive to many things.   He can sense the magic in your blood if you are an elf.     Poor kid, I think his grandma did him a favour taking the old god spirit/soul from him because the ordinary Kieran seems a nice, well adjusted lad and a credit to his Mum.

 
Dwarves can hear it too... But only underground dwarves. The "stone sense" that dwarves talk about is their lyrium sense, dwarves can literally hear lyrium like a spirit can. Oghren makes a comment when you go into the sacred ashes temple.

"The lyrium veins in these walls are richer and purer than any I've
sensed in a while. It's doing things... changing this temple and
everything in it."


He not only can sense it all around, but he can even sense the quality of it. Dwarves stone sense is a lyrium sense, and they use it to know where lyrium is and how quality it is and they use those senses to know the best places to mine. It's why only dwarves can lyrium mine as well as they do, other races have to go in blind, a dwarf can literally follow it through the walls and floor and ceiling and know exactly where it is and how good it is. They are walking lyrium detectors. Not to mention it isn't lethal to them.

 
Also, I knew lyrium was alive far before DAI came out. Look at this old post of mine from 2013.
 

Lyrium IS alive. It literally feeds on corpses, it's why Dwarves know their ancestors live on because they live on inside the lyrium that absorbed them. "Let the stone take you" is literal, it's asking the lyrium to absorb the body and essence of the body. Red lyrium is probably lyrium that is oldest and thus has had the most time to absorb the most life force, which would explain why it's further down than blue lyrium (typically older stuff is further down in archeology and paleontology) and is far more potent (and mentally lethal). Lyrium is alive and thinking, it's why it sings to people who can hear it like dwarves and fade spirits, it's why the Ancestors of Dwarves are considered still around, it's why lyrium protected Orzammar by guiding the Crosscut drifters to a large Darkspawn horse with its song and knowing they were following the sound. It's why the Gangue Shade exists, it's a literal infection or corruption that destroys lyrium and the Legion of the Dead is tasked with destroying it any time it starts to be too infectious. It's both scary in that it's a thinking organic matter that has a mind of its own and absorbs people and animals both but is also good because it actually does try to protect the dwarves in its own way, and does in fact have all the minds of all the dwarves who have ever died inside it adding to its own mind.

Lyrium is the blood and mind of the stone, fed with the lives of the people who die in the stone.

 
Although I got details about the red lyrium wrong, it does have to do with absorbing just like I thought... But it was WHAT is absorbed that causes the red kind, and the taint is what is being absorbed that causes it.

 

And what caused me to come up with this idea? The crosscut drifters, a group of illegal lyrium miners who were simply following their lyrium senses to high quality veins and mining them. But the lyrium used their own senses against them to actually guide them to a secret darkspawn attack that would have destroyed Orzammar.

 

"We found trouble all right. Rogan's lyrium vein led right to the flank of a darkspawn horde. From the look of their kit, the spawn were a week, maybe less, from breakthrough into that blasted new highway under Orzammar, and  they'd be well behind any patrols. The Stone knew. She knew, and she drew her chosen with a promise of ore we could taste in our bones. if all goes well, losing this cavern will kill the darkspawn's taste for digging, and Orzammar will never know it was at risk. We'll be a distant tremor, a ripple in the royal fountain. The charges are laid. We know it will work and we know the cost. The Stone has shown us the way home.

--From the journal of Brunar, founding fellow, Crosscut Drifters."

 

 

So lyrium being alive was never an ass-pull, it's been hinted at quite strongly since the first game. The lyrium knew of those Darkspawn and used its song and the dwarves senses to guide them to it to warn them so they could do something about it. That is the actions of a thinking creature.

 

By the way, if you think of lyrium as the blood of the world then the taint and red lyrium is pretty much blood poisoning.


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#21
Caddius

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So I am of the opinion that lyrium is the blood of the Titans aka the Forgotten Ones and that the Old Gods are whisps of the Elven godss' souls, so an Old God soul reacting negatively to lyrium makes sense (at least to me).

As for going deep into the Deep Roads, I suspect that would lead you to the Void rather than the Golden City...or at least the barrier between reality and the Void.

I don't think that codex implies they popped out in the deep roads. Based on the number of generations, the dwarf who saw the Darkspawn was alive at most 300 years prior. However according to the verses of the Chant of Light on topic in WoT2, the 7 magisters were scattered by the Archon of the time upon their return. So the dwarf likely viewed three of the Magisters encountering each other for the first time in centuries after the Archon bested them.

Mind sharing these verses of the Chant of Light?

The Magisters running into each other centuries after the fact actually sounds much better than them plopping out of a portal and snarking/eating each other. As does the Archon dismissing the shambling horrors that were his think tank.

And yeah, unless the dwarf comes from a very long-lived family, the First Blight was roughly 1200 years before the present date. Does the Codex entry have a date on when it was written, though?



#22
ModernAcademic

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Lyrium being the blood of the world is a similar concept to that of Lifestream in Final Fantasy VII, don't you think?

 

Lifestream was the energy that connected all life in the game. Whenever someone died, it returned to the planet, its essence becoming one with the Lifestream.

 

There were also voices on the Lifestream (the voices of millions of souls), and it was also a radiant substance (green instead of blue) that drove people mad if they came in direct contact with it. Cloud Strife, the main character, does become insane in the 3rd part of the game after touching it.

 

Lifestream could also be condensed into solid form -like lyrium can - and become Materia, bright radiant stones that enabled people to cast magic. 

 

Lyrium is magic in raw form.

-Samson in DA2

 

The Lifestream. That's what we call the river of life that circles our planet, giving life to the world and everything in it.

—Marlene, in the prologue to Advent Children

 

 

http://finalfantasy....wiki/Lifestream

 

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#23
raging_monkey

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That's been my theory

#24
Ranadiel Marius

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Mind sharing these verses of the Chant of Light?
The Magisters running into each other centuries after the fact actually sounds much better than them plopping out of a portal and snarking/eating each other. As does the Archon dismissing the shambling horrors that were his think tank.
And yeah, unless the dwarf comes from a very long-lived family, the First Blight was roughly 1200 years before the present date. Does the Codex entry have a date on when it was written, though?

I would share the verses, but I'm presently at work and can't get to my copy. The general gist of them is that one of the apprentices brought in to help in the ritual realized the ritual was wrong and ran to tell the Archon. The Archon found the 7 magisters after the Maker kicked them out of the city, and the Archon proceeded to scatter the magisters to the winds. This portion of the chant is also notable as it gives the titles of the seven.

The codex entry doesn't give a date, but I was under the impression that it was recently written, and the dwarf says it was his grandfather's grandfather who encountered the Darkspawn kings. So unless the note found in a smuggler's den is hundreds of years old or dwarves are sexual active when they are 100, the encounter probably happened a little over a century ago with 300 years being the far extreme of the possible range (if every dwarf was born to 50 year old parents).
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#25
Caddius

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I would share the verses, but I'm presently at work and can't get to my copy. The general gist of them is that one of the apprentices brought in to help in the ritual realized the ritual was wrong and ran to tell the Archon. The Archon found the 7 magisters after the Maker kicked them out of the city, and the Archon proceeded to scatter the magisters to the winds. This portion of the chant is also notable as it gives the titles of the seven.

The codex entry doesn't give a date, but I was under the impression that it was recently written, and the dwarf says it was his grandfather's grandfather who encountered the Darkspawn kings. So unless the note found in a smuggler's den is hundreds of years old or dwarves are sexual active when they are 100, the encounter probably happened a little over a century ago with 300 years being the far extreme of the possible range (if every dwarf was born to 50 year old parents).

The titles of all of them? :D

My Tevinter nerd is trembling.

Feel free to share the verses whenever you have the urge and some free time. I will be waiting in worshipful silence.  :lol: