54 réponses à ce sujet

[Teddie Sage]

I wouldn't say a bad console port. I think they really wanted for everyone to experience the same sort of gameplay... basically, each video game out there are made on PC but since the market sold so many consoles in the next gen, they had to make a choice to appeal broader audiences. I can see why they did it and personally it doesn't bother me that much as on DAO and DA2, we were forced to 6 skills per character. Now that it upped to 8 skills, I'm not complaining at all.

[devSin]

I think they wanted common gameplay (including control scheme) between single-player and multiplayer. Due to controller design, this would limit the game to 8 slots (since there is no pausing in multiplayer, you can't bring up a menu with additional options—it has to be only what you can press in real time).

It's not going to change.

[Wurm_king]

Alan C9, my point is two fold, first part of my point is that we don't want more abilities to make the game easier, we want more abilities to make the game fun, I don't need the extra abilities if I really just want to jump into the fight and win, part of the fun of a game like this (for me at least) is to annihilate the enemy in as showy a way possible, cant really do that with only 8 slots.

 

the argument that is always used by bioware apologist  to explain why we have only 8 slots is so that it makes the game more tactical, the second part of my point is that they could have made it 4 abilities and it still would not make the game more tactical as it is now. i wont even go into the ease of dispatching enemies and the lack of fear of defeat, but i will point out that there is no tactics in this game. the enemy a.i. is poor and the 8 slots are to cover up the weakness of the enemies, only enemies i have trouble with are ones i have no elemental counter for.

 

see there is no point to tactics in this game because even if i order my allies to target someone else after that first attack they will always turn around and focus on whoever i am attacking, which is good when you are the tank and you want all the enemies to focus on you but when you are the dagger wielding rogue, you want your tank to focus the big bad enemy while you pick off the weak, but when not even my ranged will focus on the weaker enemy and they all chase who i chase, tactics go right out the window.

[hellbiter88]

 

 

Add more skill hotbars. 8 slot limit is stupid and annoying. Add it now.

 

I would like to see more than 8 abilities slotted in future games. I find that the current restriction makes for a less enjoyable game because ___________. Please consider changing this system. Thank you.

 

 

Thats a nice way of saying the same thing i just said. The reason for asking, i mean demanding it, i thought was obvious. I simply want to use all of my abiIities at once. Not having to choose only some of them and leaving some out. I would only add the "Thank you" part when they give me the option of using more then 8 abilities slotted. For all those who think it's more tactical can just keep using the 8 slots limitation. "Thank you"

 

 

oh don't take my quip seriously. And I hate the 8-ability limit r u kidding? i just think ppl respond better to professionalism and less... well, to that.

[coldflame]

Didn't you know? Limited skill slots result in a more tactical gameplay. This is why MP is more tactical than SP. What we need is a 2 slot hardcore mode.

 

Still needing 2 slots? You scrub. I play on Ironman mode with no slot and I am really good at using the autoattack tactically.

[Morroian]

I'm not sure at all but maybe the 8 slot limitation is due to the consoles being limited to that amount in the pad and bioware simply transposed this model on the PC version (it's very obvious to anyone at this point that the PC version is a poor console port).

 

This is almost certainly the real reason for the limitation.

[In Exile]

This is almost certainly the real reason for the limitation.

 

Except for the fact that neither DA:O or DA2 had it. So clearly it can't be the justification. Maybe it's tied to the console control scheme, but it's more complicate than just the fact it's used. 

[NoForgiveness]

Eh... yes that's my entire contribution.

[Dubya75]

Didn't you know? Limited skill slots result in a more tactical gameplay. This is why MP is more tactical than SP. What we need is a 2 slot hardcore mode.

 

What would be REALLY REALLY hardcore is if they completely block access to skills, even after you've acquired them. Also remove all game controls. THAT would give you a proper tactical gameplay experience right there!

[TheKat]

Didn't you know? Limited skill slots result in a more tactical gameplay. This is why MP is more tactical than SP. What we need is a 2 slot hardcore mode.

 

Go play World of Warcraft, that's been reduced to a retarded, 2-button masher game. I agree with OP, 8 slots is ridiculous. And all because they wanted to shift some more units by selling to console users. If you want to play a decent game, fork out $1000 and get a computer, not a $300 mario console.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

Go play World of Warcraft, that's been reduced to a retarded, 2-button masher game. I agree with OP, 8 slots is ridiculous. And all because they wanted to shift some more units by selling to console users. If you want to play a decent game, fork out $1000 and get a computer, not a $300 mario console.

 

[AshenSugar]

I don't have any memory of anybody complaining that DA:O and DA:2 had too many spell/action slots.

 

"Oh doood, this game sucks so hard, I mean SERIOUSLY they give u far 2 many action bar slots FFS. Unless teh next game in teh series limits the action bar 2 only 8 or less i'm neva buying another BW game again EVA!!!!!!"

 

 

 

Nope, I've no memory of that ever happening.

 

 

 

I firmly believe that this "It's more tactical now" line coming from the devs is basically a snow job. They are attempting to justify a limitation by making it sound like a feature.

 

I believe that the real reason has more to do with eight buttons on a controller pad, and an unwillingness to create a new interface for the PC port.

 

I just wish they'd be more honest about such things.

[Baalthazar]

I think they wanted common gameplay (including control scheme) between single-player and multiplayer. Due to controller design, this would limit the game to 8 slots (since there is no pausing in multiplayer, you can't bring up a menu with additional options—it has to be only what you can press in real time).

It's not going to change.

 

This.  This was a design choice by BioWare.  It was more important to them to have a MP game than to have the sort of SP experience that DA:O offered.  It wasn't that BioWare was no longer capable of providing the sort of experience DA:O offered, it's that they chose not to do it.

 

They committed resources to developing MP that could have been committed to improving the SP experience, but they chose otherwise.

 

The DA:I mess reveals BioWare's judgment.

[Fireheart]

Would you call a game like CoD or BF a tactical shooter compared to say Socom.No you wouldn't.BF & Cod let you switch weapons/classes on the fly with respawn.SOCOM says pick a primary,sidearm,& equipment with no changing your weapons unless you pick up an enemy weapon that you or a teammate kill with no guarantee of it being more useful with no respawning.You plan ahead & think tactical.You adapt.For example,You go in thinking you will fight demons but turns out you are fighting rogues & mages.You adapt not by pausing the damn game to switch weapons,loadouts,or companions but find a way to use what you have already & win.

Why are you talking about weapons, loadouts and companions? We're talking about skill slots here. Read the title.

 

Only sucky thing about no weapon switching is rogues can't have arrows and daggers, although I never play rogues, I know many would like to have the option to switch. And only game I know you can switch your companions is Final Fantasy 12, which was 2005/6? And only when your main party fell.

[Fireheart]

I don't have any memory of anybody complaining that DA:O and DA:2 had too many spell/action slots.

 

"Oh doood, this game sucks so hard, I mean SERIOUSLY they give u far 2 many action bar slots FFS. Unless teh next game in teh series limits the action bar 2 only 8 or less i'm neva buying another BW game again EVA!!!!!!"

 

 

 

Nope, I've no memory of that ever happening.

 

 

 

I firmly believe that this "It's more tactical now" line coming from the devs is basically a snow job. They are attempting to justify a limitation by making it sound like a feature.

 

I believe that the real reason has more to do with eight buttons on a controller pad, and an unwillingness to create a new interface for the PC port.

 

I just wish they'd be more honest about such things.

I just can't see how this is console's fault... I mean, how hard would it be to make it possible for PC users to be able to use the rest of their numberpad/skillbar to use more skills? DAO (and i guess da2, never played it on console) had the radial menu to access all of our skills, even without a numpad/skillbar. You say they were too lazy to create a new interface  for the PC port, but they weren't lazy enough to not include a radial menu in dao and da2, so none of this makes any sense. For one, why would need to make a new interface to allow PC users to use more skills? They've already done it for dao and da2! So they just have to recreate it. Same for console owners, at least before, we had the radial menu for all our skills and now that thing is useless. Only thing you use it for is to go to the inventory. So I don't believe that this is the fault of console limitations, but rather Bioware wanted the game to be like this for some reason. I can't come up with my own... only thing I could think of is what others have already mentioned, because Bio wanted SP and MP to have similar controls, and since there's no pause in multiplayer, then... yeah. 8 slots is what we got... Oh, wait, but now that I realize this... hm, if DAI was a pc only game, then multiple skill slots could still work because players have mouse/mice to click on a skill, whereas on console we'd have to bring up the radial menu which would pause the game, so...

 

Yeah, using this logic, the game does sound like a console-port, but only at the fault of MP. If MP wasn't in the game, would we have different controls? I hope da4 doesn't have it...

[Baalthazar]

I just can't see how this is console's fault... 

 

It's not console's fault.  It's BioWare's design choice.  They didn't have the time/resources to make different UI/control schemes for PC/consoles in DA:I like they did in DA:O because they were so busy developing for five platforms and making a MP component.  The more they try to do with limited resources in a limited time, the less they can do well, and it shows in DA:I.

[Dubya75]

It's not console's fault.  It's BioWare's design choice.  They didn't have the time/resources to make different UI/control schemes for PC/consoles in DA:I like they did in DA:O because they were so busy developing for five platforms and making a MP component.  The more they try to do with limited resources in a limited time, the less they can do well, and it shows in DA:I.

 

I have to agree with you on this. You made a very good point about them spreading themselves too thin across 5 platforms, which included LAST-GEN CONSOLES! I mean, really? Who does that and imagine that they will be successful?

They are called "last-gen" consoles for a reason! We have "next-gen" tech for a reason! But Bioware apparently missed this little detail of tech moving forward.

As a "veteran" game company, Bioware made some really silly noob choices:

 

- Appeal to everyone and still call it an RPG

- Make the gameplay experience unified across platforms, including PC

- Nerf the game so we can cram it onto last-gen consoles even if it looks like Minecraft as a result

 

You only make choices like that out of greed.

 

And they wonder why we are angry...

[Cervin]

I see it like we have 32 slots in single player since we have followers too and we can actually use thier spells too. amazing!

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm not sure at all but maybe the 8 slot limitation is due to the consoles being limited to that amount in the pad and bioware simply transposed this model on the PC version (it's very obvious to anyone at this point that the PC version is a poor console port).

It's not consoles; it's multiplayer.

The previous games had access to more abilities on console, because pausing.

But now we don't, I expect to promote gameplay parity across single-player and multiplayer.

[AshenSugar]

You say they were too lazy to create a new interface

 

 

Actually I said they were 'unwilling' to create a new interface.

[PhroXenGold]

As I see it, the problem with the DA:I system is that they doubly restricted the number of abilites you have access to - you're restricted both by the 8 slot limit and the 1 skillpoint per level. Do one or the other - either give everyone access to all the skills they've taken at level up, or limit them to 8 at a time, but let them chose those 8 from the full set of skills the class has (and make the skill trees consist only of passives / attribute increases [maybe have some skills have a level restriction so you're not overwhelmed at level 1]).

[Auztin]

Why are you talking about weapons, loadouts and companions? We're talking about skill slots here. Read the title.

Only sucky thing about no weapon switching is rogues can't have arrows and daggers, although I never play rogues, I know many would like to have the option to switch. And only game I know you can switch your companions is Final Fantasy 12, which was 2005/6? And only when your main party fell.

in Origins,you could change companions at last minute before a fight,which is not tactical unless the game is built around it (it was not).
I bring up weapons & loadouts because that is essentially the same principle.Our weapons are bow,dual daggers,staff,great sword, & sword and shield.Our loadout is the 8 slots for abilities. You go in prepared & adapt to the changes mean it is strategic/tactical.Origins was as tactical as a Call of Duty game.You could be tactical but you did not have to even on harder difficulties.A little less with Inquisition & DA2.
Do I personally find DA:I tactical?No.A little strategy elements that is all.Did Bioware say 8 slots is because they wanted more tactical gameplay?I don't think they said anything about it.I find it more tactical.The 8 slot limit is probably wanting similar gameplay like others have said.But never should Origins considered tactical or strategic unless you think Call of Duty or Battlefield take tactics.People should not ask for tactical or strategic gameplay if they want to just use unlimited potions or unlimited healing.That is bad design & not tactical at all.People want MMO combat where you can just heal everything or DPS everything without thinking(DA:O was just like this).If you played enough MMOs & not just 2.You would not see the limit as MMO-ish.Hell most MMOS take more strategy than Origins.

[ProZlayer]

in Origins,you could change companions at last minute before a fight,which is not tactical unless the game is built around it (it was not).
I bring up weapons & loadouts because that is essentially the same principle.Our weapons are bow,dual daggers,staff,great sword, & sword and shield.Our loadout is the 8 slots for abilities. You go in prepared & adapt to the changes mean it is strategic/tactical.Origins was as tactical as a Call of Duty game.You could be tactical but you did not have to even on harder difficulties.A little less with Inquisition & DA2.
Do I personally find DA:I tactical?No.A little strategy elements that is all.Did Bioware say 8 slots is because they wanted more tactical gameplay?I don't think they said anything about it.I find it more tactical.The 8 slot limit is probably wanting similar gameplay like others have said.But never should Origins considered tactical or strategic unless you think Call of Duty or Battlefield take tactics.People should not ask for tactical or strategic gameplay if they want to just use unlimited potions or unlimited healing.That is bad design & not tactical at all.People want MMO combat where you can just heal everything or DPS everything without thinking(DA:O was just like this).If you played enough MMOs & not just 2.You would not see the limit as MMO-ish.Hell most MMOS take more strategy than Origins.

 

I don't want to adapt before a battle by having to go into the menu every single time and change my skills. I want to have all my skills available during a fight. Would also be nice if someone could link a statment from bioware telling us why they have done such a thing.

[In Exile]

It's not consoles; it's multiplayer.

The previous games had access to more abilities on console, because pausing.

But now we don't, I expect to promote gameplay parity across single-player and multiplayer.

I think the answer is even more mundane: to conserve resources on what was already a demanding project Bioware needed gameplay to be standard across MP and SP. That way they halve the cost of testing combat and can re-use MP innovations in development in SP.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

And they wonder why we are angry...

 Who is this "we"? You should specify it, because I'm not angry at all.