64 réponses à ce sujet

[ruggie]

Don't know why you'd use SB over CL. One cast of CL gets me almost full barrier, then sets the wheels in motion for nightmare combos.

oh idk you cant spam chain lighting on a dragon over and over. derp

[Felis Menari]

So true.  Why even call him a warrior anymore.  They should just rename him to "Elementalist 2" in the damp screen.

That's certainly what it feels like now.

[Drasca]

After that you need long fight enough for it to matter. Fade cloak and 3 swings pretty much kill everything on perilous (and we talk about single target) so only bosses are really the target of it.

 

That's assuming you aren't blocked. FC + 3 swings is not enough damage to kill unless you have as much will power as I do (130+). Typical footsoldier mobs have 4k health. Archers have around 3k.

 

FC does about 1200 normal for me, and 2k on crit. SB does 600 or 800 damage (not sure why it is one or the other), so 3x swings is 1800-2400 damage. FC + 3x swings = 3k - 3.6k damage, which is barely the lower bound of Perilous enemy health-- AND requires over 130 willpower to obtain (and end game gear). This is only enough damage to kill Archers and wraiths, and possibly deepstalkers, while leaving the possibilty for being blocked.

 

Most players don't have this much willpower.

 

Casting damage spells in that same time would cause far more damage and have reduced cooldown from GS staff attacks in between cd's.

 

 

 

    Grants a 0.5-second cooldown reduction every time the first attack (attack_1) in the staff attack sequence is made.

So you need to cancel animation for better result, still at most it's 8 attacks in 4 seconds with plenty of shiftmashing, still SB wins damage wise.

 

This was fixed patch 6. Every attack hit reduces cd.

 

 

Not this again, lol.

 

You know, if you really, really want to make sure the math is right, then maybe we could take a hour someday, get some samples and really do the math properly, but for now it seems we're both doing politician math that isn't really conclusive

 

1v1 me bro lol. It wouldn't be too hard to do the same zone one, and we can time each other how long it takes. We'll each use both our builds and each other's builds, since respec will be cheap to do.

[hanoobken]

I don't see why this argument over SB vs no SB is still going on.  Both builds are great and both have their set of advantages and disadvantages.  It all boils down to preference and play style.  I've had no problems with the blocking issue that everyone keeps complaining about while using SB.  I prefer SB when soloing/carrying lowbies and no SB in a coordinated team setting.  Both are fantastic and both are perfectly viable on perilous against any faction.

 

Admittedly I haven't had the chance to play 1.08 SB AW but I will soon after I'm done patching. 

[Felis Menari]

I don't see why this argument over SB vs no SB is still going on.  Both builds are great and both have their set of advantages and disadvantages.  It all boils down to preference and play style.  I've had no problems with the blocking issue that everyone keeps complaining about while using SB.  I prefer SB when soloing/carrying lowbies and no SB in a coordinated team setting.  Both are fantastic and both are perfectly viable on perilous against any faction.

 

Admittedly I haven't had the chance to play 1.08 SB AW but I will soon after I'm done patching. 

As someone who has almost exclusively played AW, I think it's safe to say that a non-SB build is far more attractive than one with SB. Post-nerf, if you're running Spirit Blade, you are running Stonefist and Restorative Veil, period. Without SF and RV, SB isn't worth the slot. You'd be better off packing in Stonefist and auto-attacking to reduce ability cooldowns, me thinks.

[Drasca]

Without SF and RV, SB isn't worth the slot. You'd be better off packing in Stonefist and auto-attacking to reduce ability cooldowns, me thinks.

 

Correct. With SF + Auto attack, that leaves room for other abilities in between. Remember with GS, basic attacks reduce cd's of all abilities... so that lets you combo off of everything.

 

I typically hit FC every 3-4s, SF every 3-6s, CL every 3-8, and Pota every 10s. It doesn't leave much room for basic attacks, but so many spells are slung out there, it is ridiculous.

[hellbiter88]

Stone fist, fade step, fade cloak, spirit blade + restorative veil

 

(Link: http://da-skills.net...C,011,012,011,0)

 

I've tested this extensively on the beta (even to the length of soloing the perilous dragon) and it works just as well. Spam stone fist every few seconds to maintain enemies in a weakened state, allowing you to draw mana from damage dealt (with restorative veil) and spam SB indefinitely, preferably canceling the 3rd swing motion with FC/SF to sustain the 1 swing/second frequency. As a bonus, you also get a consistent extra 15% damage from Twisting Veil, which applies on weakened enemies.

 

edit: Just to add, the reason why you shouldn't use PotA is because of the long cooldown. You can't keep enemies weakened that way. I just suggest you guys go try it and report back

 

edit #2: I may also add, it is the only viable build for soloing the dragon. Spirit Blade is unavoidable as you need to consistently and perpetually generate barrier, and is the only ability which can provide that. I have not found any other viable alternative. As always, this is all IMO, and I'd be happy if someone could prove me wrong and bring constructive arguments to this discussion (instead of trashing on SB and saying that no "pro" AW should use it)

 

Wave has indeed solo'd perilous dragon on this build... and has carried the team multiple times using this build. So I can contest that he makes this build work.

 

I much prefer stone fist, myself, for it's small AoE burst, far-reaching range and quick response time--as well as it being unblockable, unlike SB. I think SB can still be used effectively, but not by me. As for PotA, I find the long cooldown to not be a big issue most of the time. The AW can keep his barrier up for so long that cooldown becomes sort of irrelevant with this ability. It's also excellent for setting up a fade cloak and stone fist combo, and I think this outweighs the cooldown time.

[hanoobken]

As someone who has almost exclusively played AW, I think it's safe to say that a non-SB build is far more attractive than one with SB. Post-nerf, if you're running Spirit Blade, you are running Stonefist and Restorative Veil, period. Without SF and RV, SB isn't worth the slot. You'd be better off packing in Stonefist and auto-attacking to reduce ability cooldowns, me thinks.

I wasn't talking about the current AW.  Drasca and yarpen have been at it since before the nerf, which was absolutely pointless since both builds were perfectly viable, and they're still at it.  Like I said, I loved both builds and depending on my mood I'd pick which build to go with. Now the patch obviously shifted in favor of Drasca's no SB build but that doesn't mean that BACK THEN one build was the better/more efficient than the other.

[Drasca]

I wasn't talking about the current AW.  Drasca and yarpen have been at it since before the nerf, which was absolutely pointless since both builds were perfectly viable, and they're still at it.  Like I said, I loved both builds and depending on my mood I'd pick which build to go with. Now the patch obviously shifted in favor of Drasca's no SB build but that doesn't mean that BACK THEN one build was the better/more efficient than the other.

 

My primary point of contention is people still falsely believe SB builds are superior in all situations. Non-SB builds being superior pre-nerf is of secondary importance. However, the proof is in the pudding, as I've carried sooo many times and been carried by teammates packing the same non-sb build so many times, and better in team environments.

 

Solo is a different beast, and I do like Wavebend's builds for solo (esp threatening and below) and I've run those too. The specifics on SB vs Non-SB do matter too, but people like yar are ill equipped to do the calculations involved, or see the multitude of situations.

 

There are specifics to when to use SB and when not to use SB. It is grossly too simple minded to think SB is a catch-all for efficiency when it is not, and it indeed needed a nerf (especially with that hidden bonus damage on upgrade-- disgusting).

[Felis Menari]

@Drasca: I do agree that the increased damage from SB's upgrade was silly, and the massive bonus damage against guard and barriers was even more absurd (taking out the RTC's guard, or Venatori commander's barriers out in one swing? Nuckin' futz, I tell ya). But now that the cost for SB has been doubled, the damage it deals doesn't feel like it's worth the cost, considering the limitations of SB. I really think 15 would have been a better cost adjustment, and hope that it does get brought down in the future. Right now SB is crap, especially considering that it's the signature skill of the class. It's the defining ability, and yet it now is the least appealing. That is not ok.

[McPartyson]

Fighting groups of enemies is trivial. Who gives a rats butt about mooks anymore? This thread was about AW Dragon soloing. How do both builds compare against the dragon fight? That's what we want to know. The Dragon is the new status quo imo.

 

Both of you guys should just whip out your Perilous Solo AW Dragon Fight videos and compare. Discussion is pointless. Videos people. Bring em on.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

oh idk you cant spam chain lighting on a dragon over and over. derp

You can spam SF, FC, FS then use CL on the little ones, what a concept!

[nibyl]

Perilous dragon soloing capabilities confirmed, didn't even use spirit blade. Chain lightning, both steps and stonefist all the way baby.

[nibyl]

I have to add that it took way too long and my hand hurt afterwards. Can't post any video, sry.

 

Here's the build if anyone wants to torture themselves http://da-skills.net...B,011,01A,110,0

[Wavebend]

Perilous dragon soloing capabilities confirmed, didn't even use spirit blade. Chain lightning, both steps and stonefist all the way baby.

 

That looks painful.

 

Anyway, feel free to use whatever build. With all my promotes and my accessories on the live version, I didn't even feel the need to use the build in OP. Everything is just too easy at this point