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[Jedi Master of Orion]

OK so as I played the game, it wasn't long before I noticed little things that didn't seem to quite add up with how lore was seemingly supposed to be.

 

Some were obvious. I'm pretty sure I remember The Masked Empire very clearly establishing that Celene and Gaspard are only distant cousins. Yet in the Winter Palace they clearly are said to be first cousins. That might not sound like a big change but it kind of paints the entire book a little differently. The last chance for peace before the civil war was Gaspard proposing to Celene on a hunt together. Celene considers it because it would have been politically expedient and notes that the fact that they were distant cousins means little. Not only does this mean Gaspard's formerly reasonable offer to Celene is now an offer of marriage to his own first cousin, but it couldn't have been practical because of the fact that being the lover of one's cousin is considered a scandal for an Emperor of Orlais.

 

Then there's little things in the codex entries and weapon descriptions that don't seem to make sense. I remember before the game came out, the question of whether the elves sacked Val Royeaux was often brought up because it was mentioned in the old timeline but when World of Thedas came out they seemed to quietly omit that one detail. I figured Mother Giselle settled the issue when she mentioned that the elves were not victims because they had taken Montsimmard but still does not say they did more than threaten Val Royeaux. But then there's a weapon or something that was said to be used by elves in the Sack of Val Royeaux. So which is it?

 

There's another axe or hammer or something that I think was said to be used in fighting relieving a siege in the Anderfels in the Third Blight... which was the ONE Blight that spared the Anderfels.

 

There's one strange codex entry by Petrine (so written in fairly recent times) that said the last blight was in the Towers Age, seemingly forgetting about Fourth Blight altogether.

 

And there is STILL that inexplicable codex entry from DAO about the Imperial Chantry that has a comment about Tevinter not restoring a magocracy until the Storm Age which doesn't fit with what we know of the timeline AND says it's by a member of the White Chantry despite being sourced from a revered father from a Tevinter city.

 

What's the deal here?

[Frybread76]

In the lore, mages are supposed to be very powerful (some can burn down houses and rip apart people, according to Vivienne), but they are very limited in scope and power in the games (moreso in DA:I than in DA:O).

[Master Warder Z_]

If I recall correctly TME didn't establish relation beyond cousin be it first or fourth.

And both the cousins cited in that rumor were men and royalty and gossip is what gossip is.

[kingjezza]

Nugs.

 

Finding them running around outside in the snow/desert was a deal breaker for me.

[congokong]

DA:I brought some contradictions regarding spirits.

 

1. Apparently they now suffer from severe bi-polar disorder when exposed to people that allows them to shift from spirit to demon.

2. They seem to no longer require possession to prance around the physical realm. Ex: Cole and the envy demon.

3. Mages can't seem to sense spirits/demons in the physical realm anymore.

[Lethaya]

Nugs.

 

Finding them running around outside in the snow/desert was a deal breaker for me.

 

I was sure before the Blight they were a whole lot more rare. Should ask a Warden about that, if killing Archdemons leaves nugs all over. And the poor things don't seem built for anywhere. I mean, they feed on anything, but they blister in the desert and freeze in the snow, and they're easier to track than your own arse. Everything eats them (except me, the hands put me off), yet they thrive. Randy bastards outpace every tooth and claw.

 

Anyway, my point is, the ones around the farm are so inbred, they're five colors and can't stop peeing. I'm selling them in the capital as "elusive eastern bunny-pigs." What did Father say about idiots with deep pockets?

 

- Excerpt from the private letters of "Captain" Byrne, lap-nug dealer, produced in evidence after seven claims of Water Terrors and death following bites in the Garden District, 9:36.

 

Does it count as a discrepancy if Bioware noticed it first? ;D

 

 

DA:I brought some contradictions regarding spirits.

 

1. Apparently they now suffer from severe bi-polar disorder when exposed to people that allows them to shift from spirit to demon.

2. They seem to no longer require possession to prance around the physical realm. Ex: Cole and the envy demon.

3. Mages can't seem to sense spirits/demons in the physical realm anymore.

 

1. Is that really new, though? Wasn't something like this implied in DA2, what with the whole Justice to Vengeance shift thanks to Anders?

2. Rifts, no? As for Cole, he's treated as a unique and special case for this very reason, no? It's not supposed to be normal, really. Especially not spirits bearing a human form manifestation as he does. And Envy was summoned or recruited by Corypheus, I thought? I believe there's a codex saying as much.

3. Discrepancy, then? XD Can't think of anything to go against that one.

[DuskWanderer]

DA:I brought some contradictions regarding spirits.

 

1. Apparently they now suffer from severe bi-polar disorder when exposed to people that allows them to shift from spirit to demon.

2. They seem to no longer require possession to prance around the physical realm. Ex: Cole and the envy demon.

3. Mages can't seem to sense spirits/demons in the physical realm anymore.

 

1.) That was always true even in the earlier games. The ones you met were simply already like this because they were bound.

2.) Some demons were bound in forms. Shades have always been a demon's true form, even in origins

3.) I don't seem to recall any instance of this being true.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If I recall correctly TME didn't establish relation beyond cousin be it first or fourth.

And both the cousins cited in that rumor were men and royalty and gossip is what gossip is.

 

I'm pretty sure I remember more than one line that establishes they are much less closely related than in the game. Celene herself says they were "distantly related." At one point Felessan asks if they were cousins or siblings and Briala says something like "Cousins, or well not exactly."

 

And my point about Florian was that the rumor of him being involved with his cousin was still scandalous, regardless of whether it was actually true.

[Master Warder Z_]

It's diffrent in the respect, it isn't some forbidden romance or fling. It's cousins marry and join the houses.

That's a boon to the nation.

It binds the bloodlines tighter.

It's not quite as popular as it was four centuries ago but it still happens even in our own reality.

Nothing really scandal worthy.

[In Exile]

I think TME was sadly written off an old script for DA:I. You can see a lot of changes were made to the game, much like you can with DA:O (e.g. Loghain's entire plot is complete nonsense when you sit down to reason it out). 

 

I think we'll get something more coherent for DA4. 

[congokong]

1.) That was always true even in the earlier games. The ones you met were simply already like this because they were bound.

2.) Some demons were bound in forms. Shades have always been a demon's true form, even in origins

3.) I don't seem to recall any instance of this being true.

1/2. Where do you get this bound demon talk from? I never heard demons could actually change into spirits by adapting to people's emotions until DA:I.

3. In DA2 when you meet that demon in the deep roads at the end of Act 1 a mage has a special option to know it's a demon. Also in DA:I when confronting the envy demon in Champions of the Just you have a special option knowing they're a demon as well. Furthermore, afterwards you can tell Barris that Cole was "clearly fade-touched" if playing a mage.

[congokong]

 

1. Is that really new, though? Wasn't something like this implied in DA2, what with the whole Justice to Vengeance shift thanks to Anders?

2. Rifts, no? As for Cole, he's treated as a unique and special case for this very reason, no? It's not supposed to be normal, really. Especially not spirits bearing a human form manifestation as he does. And Envy was summoned or recruited by Corypheus, I thought? I believe there's a codex saying as much.

3. Discrepancy, then? XD Can't think of anything to go against that one.

1. I certainly considered the whole Anders situation. First, Anders' situation is rather unique compared to a mage's mere emotions corrupting a spirit they're in contact with. Second, I thought Anders might have been more dramatic and metaphorical. Meaning, if Anders died, then Justice would be free as Justice again. Only while bonded with Anders was he more vengeance.

2. I just don't see how it's possible. Why would a demon feel the need to possess someone when they can stroll around the physical world without a host? And if demons can do things like what happened with Lucius, why aren't there precautionary measures put in place so some demon doesn't go around impersonating an influential person to create havoc? Normally I'd say mages would sense the demon and that leads to point 3.

[Lethaya]

1. Well, Anders always spoke of Justice like he was gone for good. Like he had ruined him forever (sigh, good job, there, Anders xD). perhaps if Janders died, Justice could remanifest? But in his current form, he had still been altered, twisted. Still, who says that isn't irreversible? Look at Wisdom. Even though the spirit ultimately perished, it recovered itself once it was unbound.

 

2. Normally Rifts aren't present, so possession would be in order. As for Cole, that's what makes him so unique, yes? It's stated this doesn't normally happen, it shouldn't happen. But it did. I'd say because the Veil is not impervious. Abount Envy, isn't that one reason people fear magic so, and demons especially? I'd say Templars are supposed to be the precaution. Problem is they, ah. Well everything's a mess. xD Envy demons don't seem very common, though. Perhaps Cory had to go to great lengths to acquire one?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Another thing I remember noticing but also almost forgot about was the Imperial Chantry. Dorian explicitly says that it's a rule that the Black Divine is always male because every Imperial Divine throughout history has been male. World of Thedas says that the Black Divine is usually but not always a man. Somebody's information needs to be corrected.

[themageguy]

The two annoying ones for me regarding lore is

A) An dalish elf inquisitor asking who mythal was.

Solas contacting a dwarven inquisitor IN A DREAM

[CathyMe]

The two annoying ones for me regarding lore is

A) An dalish elf inquisitor asking who mythal was.

Solas contacting a dwarven inquisitor IN A DREAM

Don't forget the 3 mages rules for Dalish, and how a mage quizzie can't tell it's the fade when talking with Solas.

[themageguy]

Don't forget the 3 mages rules for Dalish, and how a mage quizzie can't tell it's the fade when talking with Solas.

[Iakus]

 

2. They seem to no longer require possession to prance around the physical realm. Ex: Cole and the envy demon.

 

Stronger demons could assume a physical form in the waking world (heck we've been fighting demons since DAO).  They just tend towards the monstrous in appearance due to lack of understanding how the world works.  Cole is unique in that he looks like an ordinary human.

 

Demons like to possess people for the greater range of experiences it offers.  They can interact with the world better, and potentially gain more power.

[Br3admax]

Don't forget the 3 mages rules for Dalish, and how a mage quizzie can't tell it's the fade when talking with Solas.

Solas' daterape drugs were pretty potent, tbh. The dream was supposed to be pretty vivid. You should be more worried about not remembering going to sleep. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Solas' daterape drugs were pretty potent, tbh. The dream was supposed to be pretty vivid. You should be more worried about not remembering going to sleep.

Good point

[Iakus]

Yea and Imshael looked like a normal human up until the point of fighting him

Imshael is a Forbidden One.  A creature from the "deep Fade" that's more than a demon.  Like Gaxkang and Xebenkeck.  We're not sure what he is, though he certainly doesn't like to be called a "demon" 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

A dalish elf not knowing Mythal and a mage not knowing the fade are failures to add proper dialogue, not canon mistakes in the lore.

[themageguy]

A dalish elf not knowing Mythal and a mage not knowing the fade are failures to add proper dialogue, not canon mistakes in the lore.

Fair point.

However....its still odd to be the dwarf walking the Fade in a cutscene depicting what shouldn't be in accordance with current knowledge regarding dwarves and the fade.

However....come to think of it, oghren in origins, varric in the comics are forced into the fade so there may very well be something different regarding how a dwarf reacts to 'dreaming' and the Fade.

So that said, i will think of it as Solas being who and what he is, was able to force Cadash conscious into the Fade for that little convo.

Yes! solved my own dislike. Yay for me.

[Lethaya]

It could  have also been the influence of the Mark? I don't think Solas planned that little encounter, and given the nature of the Mark, it'd make sense that the Quizzy would experience some Fade-y type side effects, I would think.