14 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Just trying to plan my next rogue build.

Combat wise, which of these abilities is best?

-Toxic Cloud (sabotage)

- Throwing Knives (sabotage)

- Neverending Spin (double daggers)

- Deathblow (double daggers)

[S_i_d_e_winder]

There's lots of ways to build. For my DW Rogue build, I don't use the first three. I usually skip the entire Sabotage tree.

Double Daggers: Entire right side, and upgraded Flank Attack. I don't go any further down the left side.

Subterfuge: I like upgrading Stealth, and then down the right side to get upgraded Shadow Strike. I don't upgrade Knockout Powder.

Archery: Even though its a DW Rogue, I take First Blood for the 15% undamaged bonus (not sure it works for DW Rogue) and the 3 DEX.

You'll respect at some point for specializations. If I have points to burn late game then I'll either go down the right side of Sabotage to get Look Like It Hurt and Cheap Shot for the 6 cunning, or down the left side of Double Daggers to get Dance of Death and Unforgiving Chain for the 6 dexterity. Depends on whether my build is lacking DEX of CUN.

Also, craft or find some gear to get your Flank Damage bonus up. You start out with 25%, so just adding a 5% Flanking ring gives a nice 30% bonus. Add to that the all important +10 Stamina Amulet, a Cunning Ring and Belt of Health and your looking good.

To use all this during attacks, pop Stealth early before the fight to let most of its 20 stamina regenerate. Flank your target, then Twin Fangs(50 stamina), Shadow Strike(40 stamina), then a few regular strikes until you can use Flank Attack(35 stamina). That uses all your stamina and puts you safely back in stealth. Sometimes you can use regular strikes after Twin Fangs if the enemy is close to 50% health in order to pop Death Blow to finish it off.

[AshenSugar]

Deathblow.

Deathblow.

Deathblow.

 

Might I also suggest Deathblow?

 

 

I've experimented a lot with my Rogue build, and I soon learned that concentrating more on the right side of the double daggers tree gives you far more bang for your buck, Two points in Flank Attack (this is mandatory IMO), then start filling out with Twn Fangs, Dance of Death, Sneak Attack and then that awesome Death Blow. Unforgiving Chain on the right is nice to have, but I'd personally leave it until your build was far more fleshed out, at around L20.

 

In the Sabotage tree, 'Looked like it hurt' should, I think, be mandatory for all Rogue builds. You seriously need this. Personally I don't bother going much deeper into that tree. Throwing Blades is OK, but the abilities within the Assassin specialisation dwarf it. Poisoned Weapons is also nice to have at low levels when you are struggling to boost your main damage output, but flattens out slightly at higher levels. I've never bothered with Toxic Cloud, or anything along those lines. I seriously think there's better uses for my limited selection of abilities.

 

Fully upgraded Stealth in the Subterfuge tree is pretty-much essential, I'd say. Evasion is  'ok', but a bit weak with it's miserly 5% proc, though the extra 5 dex is always good. Easy to Miss is nice at low level, not so important later in the game, where you'll often be taking single foes head on, and acting as an off-tank. All this makes way for the big one: Shadow Strike. Shadow Strike is pure awesomeness! Use that baby from stealth and you can often take something nasty like a Great Bear down to half it's health in one shot!

 

For Specialisations, it's up to you, but I went with Assassin, and never looked back. Hidden Blades is an awesome one-shot-kill against light enemies, such as Mages and Archers etc, You'll never need to worry about avoiding those frost traps againi, as Dead mages tend not to cast them. Everything on the left of the tree is pure brutality, whereas the right is more utility. No prizes for guessing which side I chose. All leading up to Mark of Death, which is your main anti-boss ability, and best saved for the real tough foes.

 

Can't help much if you prefer the other specialisations, as I've not tried them on a melee character, however if you decide to go with, say, Tempest, it may be worthwhile going with Throwing Blades, just so that you have some kind of opening ranged ability. But, in my opinion, Assassin's Hidden Blade is far more elegant.

[Duelist]

Deathblow.
Deathblow.
Deathblow.

Might I also suggest Deathblow?


I've experimented a lot with my Rogue build, and I soon learned that concentrating more on the right side of the double daggers tree gives you far more bang for your buck, Two points in Flank Attack (this is mandatory IMO), then start filling out with Twn Fangs, Dance of Death, Sneak Attack and then that awesome Death Blow. Unforgiving Chain on the right is nice to have, but I'd personally leave it until your build was far more fleshed out, at around L20.

In the Sabotage tree, 'Looked like it hurt' should, I think, be mandatory for all Rogue builds. You seriously need this. Personally I don't bother going much deeper into that tree. Throwing Blades is OK, but the abilities within the Assassin specialisation dwarf it. Poisoned Weapons is also nice to have at low levels when you are struggling to boost your main damage output, but flattens out slightly at higher levels. I've never bothered with Toxic Cloud, or anything along those lines. I seriously think there's better uses for my limited selection of abilities.

Fully upgraded Stealth in the Subterfuge tree is pretty-much essential, I'd say. Evasion is 'ok', but a bit weak with it's miserly 5% proc, though the extra 5 dex is always good. Easy to Miss is nice at low level, not so important later in the game, where you'll often be taking single foes head on, and acting as an off-tank. All this makes way for the big one: Shadow Strike. Shadow Strike is pure awesomeness! Use that baby from stealth and you can often take something nasty like a Great Bear down to half it's health in one shot!

For Specialisations, it's up to you, but I went with Assassin, and never looked back. Hidden Blades is an awesome one-shot-kill against light enemies, such as Mages and Archers etc, You'll never need to worry about avoiding those frost traps againi, as Dead mages tend not to cast them. Everything on the left of the tree is pure brutality, whereas the right is more utility. No prizes for guessing which side I chose. All leading up to Mark of Death, which is your main anti-boss ability, and best saved for the real tough foes.

Can't help much if you prefer the other specialisations, as I've not tried them on a melee character, however if you decide to go with, say, Tempest, it may be worthwhile going with Throwing Blades, just so that you have some kind of opening ranged ability. But, in my opinion, Assassin's Hidden Blade is far more elegant.

Excellent post. Adding to this: do not underestimate the utility of Knockout Bomb/Powder.

Hidden Blades inflicts spirit damage on a sleeping enemy and Twin Fangs on a sleeping enemy will either kill them outright or leave them a sitting duck for Deathblow.

[AshenSugar]

Yeah that's a good point. I personally find the knockout bomb/powder stuff to be very situational. The sleep/Hidden Blades combo you mentioned can be a lifesaver against particularly nasty opponents such as Red Templar Shadows, but for average fights I usually find that I can generally deal with the various mooks without the need to bother.

 

I think it really just comes down to personal preference. Once all my damage-dealing abilities are chosen and assigned, I find that I have two slots left for utility. One obviously goes to Stealth, leaving one more. Knockout Powder is a valid choice, you might prefer Poisoned Weapons, Parry, or Evade, I've been messing about with Evade for my current build, but I'm finding that I don't particularly use it much. I'm thinking about going back to Poisoned Weapons or Knockout Powder. I'll have to experiment and see which proves the most useful.

 

I dismissed Parry long ago as more trouble than it was worth, though some other players swear by it. I find that the AI is far better at using it than I am

[(Disgusted noise.)]

All of them, but I agree that Throwing Knives is outclassed by Hidden Blades if you're an Assassin. If you're an Artificer or a Tempest, I really enjoy it as a way to hit from a bit of a distance. Spinning Blades and Deathblow are both standards for a daggers rogue, imo. Toxic Cloud is fun, but situational. I usually ignore it for Poisoned Weapons since it's all purpose and move slots are precious (plus it takes less points to unlock).

[exboomer]

There's lots of ways to build. For my DW Rogue build, I don't use the first three. I usually skip the entire Sabotage tree.

Double Daggers: Entire right side, and upgraded Flank Attack. I don't go any further down the left side.

Subterfuge: I like upgrading Stealth, and then down the right side to get upgraded Shadow Strike. I don't upgrade Knockout Powder.

Archery: Even though its a DW Rogue, I take First Blood for the 15% undamaged bonus (not sure it works for DW Rogue) and the 3 DEX.

You'll respect at some point for specializations. If I have points to burn late game then I'll either go down the right side of Sabotage to get Look Like It Hurt and Cheap Shot for the 6 cunning, or down the left side of Double Daggers to get Dance of Death and Unforgiving Chain for the 6 dexterity. Depends on whether my build is lacking DEX of CUN.

Also, craft or find some gear to get your Flank Damage bonus up. You start out with 25%, so just adding a 5% Flanking ring gives a nice 30% bonus. Add to that the all important +10 Stamina Amulet, a Cunning Ring and Belt of Health and your looking good.

To use all this during attacks, pop Stealth early before the fight to let most of its 20 stamina regenerate. Flank your target, then Twin Fangs(50 stamina), Shadow Strike(40 stamina), then a few regular strikes until you can use Flank Attack(35 stamina). That uses all your stamina and puts you safely back in stealth. Sometimes you can use regular strikes after Twin Fangs if the enemy is close to 50% health in order to pop Death Blow to finish it off.

I've always included Poisoned Weapons, Looked Like It Hurt and Fighting Dirty for my main rogue character in all my play throughs.

[Qun00]

There's lots of ways to build. For my DW Rogue build, I don't use the first three. I usually skip the entire Sabotage tree.

Double Daggers: Entire right side, and upgraded Flank Attack. I don't go any further down the left side.

Subterfuge: I like upgrading Stealth, and then down the right side to get upgraded Shadow Strike. I don't upgrade Knockout Powder.

Archery: Even though its a DW Rogue, I take First Blood for the 15% undamaged bonus (not sure it works for DW Rogue) and the 3 DEX.

You'll respect at some point for specializations. If I have points to burn late game then I'll either go down the right side of Sabotage to get Look Like It Hurt and Cheap Shot for the 6 cunning, or down the left side of Double Daggers to get Dance of Death and Unforgiving Chain for the 6 dexterity. Depends on whether my build is lacking DEX of CUN.

Also, craft or find some gear to get your Flank Damage bonus up. You start out with 25%, so just adding a 5% Flanking ring gives a nice 30% bonus. Add to that the all important +10 Stamina Amulet, a Cunning Ring and Belt of Health and your looking good.

To use all this during attacks, pop Stealth early before the fight to let most of its 20 stamina regenerate. Flank your target, then Twin Fangs(50 stamina), Shadow Strike(40 stamina), then a few regular strikes until you can use Flank Attack(35 stamina). That uses all your stamina and puts you safely back in stealth. Sometimes you can use regular strikes after Twin Fangs if the enemy is close to 50% health in order to pop Death Blow to finish it off.

Yeah, when it comes down to it sabotage can be a waste of points.

Deathblow.
Deathblow.
Deathblow.

Might I also suggest Deathblow?


I've experimented a lot with my Rogue build, and I soon learned that concentrating more on the right side of the double daggers tree gives you far more bang for your buck, Two points in Flank Attack (this is mandatory IMO), then start filling out with Twn Fangs, Dance of Death, Sneak Attack and then that awesome Death Blow. Unforgiving Chain on the right is nice to have, but I'd personally leave it until your build was far more fleshed out, at around L20.

In the Sabotage tree, 'Looked like it hurt' should, I think, be mandatory for all Rogue builds. You seriously need this. Personally I don't bother going much deeper into that tree. Throwing Blades is OK, but the abilities within the Assassin specialisation dwarf it. Poisoned Weapons is also nice to have at low levels when you are struggling to boost your main damage output, but flattens out slightly at higher levels. I've never bothered with Toxic Cloud, or anything along those lines. I seriously think there's better uses for my limited selection of abilities.

Fully upgraded Stealth in the Subterfuge tree is pretty-much essential, I'd say. Evasion is 'ok', but a bit weak with it's miserly 5% proc, though the extra 5 dex is always good. Easy to Miss is nice at low level, not so important later in the game, where you'll often be taking single foes head on, and acting as an off-tank. All this makes way for the big one: Shadow Strike. Shadow Strike is pure awesomeness! Use that baby from stealth and you can often take something nasty like a Great Bear down to half it's health in one shot!

For Specialisations, it's up to you, but I went with Assassin, and never looked back. Hidden Blades is an awesome one-shot-kill against light enemies, such as Mages and Archers etc, You'll never need to worry about avoiding those frost traps againi, as Dead mages tend not to cast them. Everything on the left of the tree is pure brutality, whereas the right is more utility. No prizes for guessing which side I chose. All leading up to Mark of Death, which is your main anti-boss ability, and best saved for the real tough foes.

Can't help much if you prefer the other specialisations, as I've not tried them on a melee character, however if you decide to go with, say, Tempest, it may be worthwhile going with Throwing Blades, just so that you have some kind of opening ranged ability. But, in my opinion, Assassin's Hidden Blade is far more elegant.

Ah, I've already done assassin. I'm looking for a different kind of rogue now.

[CronoDragoon]

I just finished a Nightmare DW Tempest, and I couldn't recommend it more. Absolute blast to play. My final build looked like:

 

Upgraded Twin Fangs

Upgraded Stealth

Upgraded Deathblow

Non-upgraded Ice Flask

Upgraded Fire Flask

Upgraded Lightning Flask

Upgraded Parry

Mark of the Rift

 

Parry isn't necessary but it's fun. Deathblow is almost overpowered in this build since you can use Fire Flask and spam 4 Deathblows on any boss that's under 1/2 HP. Seriously, Deathblow is a monster move, and it actually has good tracking compared to Twin Fangs.

 

Frost Flask is a lot of fun with DW, since you'll be wading into the frontlines and can Freeze multiple enemies and then self-Shatter them with Twin Fangs or Death Blow. Lightning Flask can be used as a gap closer either for a ranged enemy or an enemy running away (relevant vs. dragons and Despair Demons) or as a dodge.

 

Craft armor or daggers with 10% Chance of Hidden Blades and watch the fireworks fly. I made some gifs of the fun here.

[Qun00]

I just finished a Nightmare DW Tempest, and I couldn't recommend it more. Absolute blast to play. My final build looked like:

Upgraded Twin Fangs
Upgraded Stealth
Upgraded Deathblow
Non-upgraded Ice Flask
Upgraded Fire Flask
Upgraded Lightning Flask
Upgraded Parry
Mark of the Rift

Parry isn't necessary but it's fun. Deathblow is almost overpowered in this build since you can use Fire Flask and spam 4 Deathblows on any boss that's under 1/2 HP. Seriously, Deathblow is a monster move, and it actually has good tracking compared to Twin Fangs.

Frost Flask is a lot of fun with DW, since you'll be wading into the frontlines and can Freeze multiple enemies and then self-Shatter them with Twin Fangs or Death Blow. Lightning Flask can be used as a gap closer either for a ranged enemy or an enemy running away (relevant vs. dragons and Despair Demons) or as a dodge.

Craft armor or daggers with 10% Chance of Hidden Blades and watch the fireworks fly. I made some gifs of the fun here.

So DW Tempest is a good build? I'm glad to hear.

Most people seem to choose Archer Tempest so I started to wonder.

"Chance of Hidden Blades"? What's that about? I didn't know that kind of effect was available.

[CronoDragoon]

"Chance of Hidden Blades"? What's that about? I didn't know that kind of effect was available.

It's one of the Fade-touched crafting mat abilities. I forget which ones but I can look it up when I get home.

[Forsythia77]

I just finished a Nightmare DW Tempest, and I couldn't recommend it more. Absolute blast to play. My final build looked like:

 

Upgraded Twin Fangs

Upgraded Stealth

Upgraded Deathblow

Non-upgraded Ice Flask

Upgraded Fire Flask

Upgraded Lightning Flask

Upgraded Parry

Mark of the Rift

 

Parry isn't necessary but it's fun. Deathblow is almost overpowered in this build since you can use Fire Flask and spam 4 Deathblows on any boss that's under 1/2 HP. Seriously, Deathblow is a monster move, and it actually has good tracking compared to Twin Fangs.

 

Frost Flask is a lot of fun with DW, since you'll be wading into the frontlines and can Freeze multiple enemies and then self-Shatter them with Twin Fangs or Death Blow. Lightning Flask can be used as a gap closer either for a ranged enemy or an enemy running away (relevant vs. dragons and Despair Demons) or as a dodge.

 

Craft armor or daggers with 10% Chance of Hidden Blades and watch the fireworks fly. I made some gifs of the fun here.

 

Can I ask what even is the point of the upgraded frost flask?  I played as a DW Tempest and didn't upgrade it either.  Seemed.... pointless.  Theoretically what conditions would make the upgrade useful?  For me, it is like berserk.  I just don't get how to employ it.

 

Also, DW Rogue Tempest was quite fun.  My Ava was real squshy at the beginning though.. but at the end.  Total BAMF.  Guard on hit master crafting helped with that squishiness.

 

So DW Tempest is a good build? I'm glad to hear.

Most people seem to choose Archer Tempest so I started to wonder.

"Chance of Hidden Blades"? What's that about? I didn't know that kind of effect was available.

 

I am playing a mage right now who has chance of 5 hidden blades on his staff.  It pops off  *all* the time (seems to be at a higher rate than the 10% chance or whatever the masterwork says it is).  The hidden blades are a thing of beauty for any class.  Holden will hit them with static cage which paralyzes them and then to add insult to injury will hit the victim with 5x hidden blades.  They usually die with a quickness.

 

Ring Velvet gives you 4x hidden blades.  I can't remember the other material that does 5x.

[CronoDragoon]

Can I ask what even is the point of the upgraded frost flask?  I played as a DW Tempest and didn't upgrade it either.  Seemed.... pointless.  Theoretically what conditions would make the upgrade useful?  For me, it is like berserk.  I just don't get how to employ it.

I bet you could make a fun DW Tempest tank if you wanted to, with a Guard on hit crafting mat. Since all the attacking enemies would get frozen, it could be a potentially devastating AOE shatter combo. I played with either Blackwall or Cassandra so I didn't have a ton of use for it, but I could see the fun.

[Forsythia77]

I bet you could make a fun DW Tempest tank if you wanted to, with a Guard on hit crafting mat. Since all the attacking enemies would get frozen, it could be a potentially devastating AOE shatter combo. I played with either Blackwall or Cassandra so I didn't have a ton of use for it, but I could see the fun.

I'm always the tank.. LOL.  Ava was totally a tank.  All my mages were tanks (except for the current one.  He is kind of a mid range guy hitting them with Static Cage.  I find the 5x hidden blades negates needing to use the KE sword).  And the warriors.. of course they were tanks.  I'm a close combat kind of girl.  Maybe I'll tinker around with the Flask o frost in another DW Rogue run. 

[KaiserShep]

Deathblow.

Deathblow.

Deathblow.

 

Might I also suggest Deathblow?

 

 

I've experimented a lot with my Rogue build, and I soon learned that concentrating more on the right side of the double daggers tree gives you far more bang for your buck, Two points in Flank Attack (this is mandatory IMO), then start filling out with Twn Fangs, Dance of Death, Sneak Attack and then that awesome Death Blow. Unforgiving Chain on the right is nice to have, but I'd personally leave it until your build was far more fleshed out, at around L20.

 

In the Sabotage tree, 'Looked like it hurt' should, I think, be mandatory for all Rogue builds. You seriously need this. Personally I don't bother going much deeper into that tree. Throwing Blades is OK, but the abilities within the Assassin specialisation dwarf it. Poisoned Weapons is also nice to have at low levels when you are struggling to boost your main damage output, but flattens out slightly at higher levels. I've never bothered with Toxic Cloud, or anything along those lines. I seriously think there's better uses for my limited selection of abilities.

 

Fully upgraded Stealth in the Subterfuge tree is pretty-much essential, I'd say. Evasion is  'ok', but a bit weak with it's miserly 5% proc, though the extra 5 dex is always good. Easy to Miss is nice at low level, not so important later in the game, where you'll often be taking single foes head on, and acting as an off-tank. All this makes way for the big one: Shadow Strike. Shadow Strike is pure awesomeness! Use that baby from stealth and you can often take something nasty like a Great Bear down to half it's health in one shot!

 

For Specialisations, it's up to you, but I went with Assassin, and never looked back. Hidden Blades is an awesome one-shot-kill against light enemies, such as Mages and Archers etc, You'll never need to worry about avoiding those frost traps againi, as Dead mages tend not to cast them. Everything on the left of the tree is pure brutality, whereas the right is more utility. No prizes for guessing which side I chose. All leading up to Mark of Death, which is your main anti-boss ability, and best saved for the real tough foes.

 

Can't help much if you prefer the other specialisations, as I've not tried them on a melee character, however if you decide to go with, say, Tempest, it may be worthwhile going with Throwing Blades, just so that you have some kind of opening ranged ability. But, in my opinion, Assassin's Hidden Blade is far more elegant.

 

Yeah, Assassin is pretty much my one and only, and I like it even more now with an archer rogue. I never bothered with throwing blades for that reason. Coupled with Sera's Tempest spec and the Emprise du Lion dragons pretty much beg for mercy. For fun, some of the fade-touched materials like plush fustian velvet and ring velvet grant your weapon the ability a stamina bonus and a chance to hit hidden blades with 4 or more extra hits.