164 réponses à ce sujet

[Norapinephrine]

I'm always amazed that there are actually people playing these games that are the types that would rail against "social justice warriors", because all the games use a point of view that is so heavily informed by social justice that it seems weird they'd want to play it. A significant portion of DA2 is about the unjust treatment of mages and it seems like more than half of the origins in DA:O are setting up the Warden as a member of an oppressed group, whether that's the Carta, the Dalish, the City Elves, or the mages. I see stuff like the dude who was mad about the bi romance options in DA2 and am wondering what game he was playing that he thought that its devs would be in any way likely to give a **** about his homophobic nonsense, because it has little in common with the series I've been playing in all these years.

[sorentoft]

Well sure you make a distinctive point
I just don't see why people argue against it in fantasy RPGs set in different worlds. The nice thing about fantasy is supposed to be that you can twist tradition and fact, bend the rules. I think fantasy is the perfect genre to make things relatable for people of different genders, ethnicities and sexualities because the rules are defined by the creators, and only informed by modern society , not governed by it.

I agree.    A fantasy world is a perfect place to have things like inclusivity. Personally my only requirement is that it makes sense within the setting. That said, I don't think inclusivity should ever be a requirement, as plenty of fantasy settings tries to mimic reality to a certain degree and often bring sexist/racist elements into the narrative to reflect that to some degree. I mean Dragon Age isn't without its own brand of racism.

 

Actually there are studies in genetics that say that Medieval Poland had more Asian and Finno-Ugric population than the modern country, so yes there was a lot more diversity than people think.

I'm well aware of that, which is why I specified with continent. During the Middle Ages you did have a Mongol invasion run over Poland.

[JeffZero]

SJW is one of those silly buzz phrases people shouldn't feel ashamed to wear like a badge, anyway. I'm a cultural anthropologist... that effectively makes me something of a "social justice warrior", I suppose. The folks who simply spend 16+ hours a day ranting on blogs about what's "wrong" about pop culture minutia can be quite bothersome, but I would far sooner call them "individuals who maybe need a hobby" rather than warriors (what does this even mean?) of social justice.

[Bail_Darilar]

What happened to people just having opinions rather than labels?

[sorentoft]

SJW is one of those silly buzz phrases people shouldn't feel ashamed to wear like a badge, anyway. I'm a cultural anthropologist... that effectively makes me something of a "social justice warrior", I suppose. The folks who simply spend 16+ hours a day ranting on blogs about what's "wrong" about pop culture minutia can be quite bothersome, but I would far sooner call them "individuals who maybe need a hobby" rather than warriors (what does this even mean?) of social justice.

They call them warriors to make fun of them, that's what it means. They're not warriors, they're people who need help.

 

What happened to people just having opinions rather than labels?

Labels have been around for ages. Even during the 18th Century Swedes labelled their two political parties Caps and Hats. Can you imagine that? Being called a hat of all things?

[JeffZero]

What happened to people just having opinions rather than labels?

 

It's easier to see the world in black and white rather than admitting that everyone who posts on the internet is a real person with three-dimensional experiences and outlooks.

[Char]

What happened to people just having opinions rather than labels?

Because apparently if you label people you can spend arguments addressing the label rather than the actual opinions offered, and you can make it into a big Us vs Them debate instead of a simple exchange of views.
*shrugs*
Then again, I didn't even label my Christmas presents last year, though admittedly that was an oversight on my part; led to some nervous moments when I started to worry if I'd given my nan's present to my nephew.

[Fireheart]

It attracts them because it has content that explores social justice issues.

[JeffZero]

Then again, I didn't even label my Christmas presents last year

 

[Big I]

http://destorycultur...al-marxism.html

 

That blog is vehemently in favor of what it calls "racial homogeneity". Here's a quote:

 

"Cultural Marxists have taken over the institutions of the media, education, mainstream Christianity (conservative and liberal), law, and finance.  Their goal is the annihilation of Western Civilization in general and white people in particular."

 

Wow. Just...wow. It actually mentions that white people adopting non white children or marrying non white people is a bad thing. W.T.F?

 

This is a blog that believes pentecostal churches and Wall Street banks are too progressive. This is what someone railing against so calling social justice warriors put on this forum to explain where they're coming from.

 

White people are not some untouchable uniform group. When Italian, German and Irish people migrated to the US in large numbers in the 19th century they faced prejudice and bigotry. To claim that you can today conflate the issues facing groups as diverse as Scots and Ukranians is ludicrous.

[Seraphim24]

I'm always amazed that there are actually people playing these games that are the types that would rail against "social justice warriors", because all the games use a point of view that is so heavily informed by social justice that it seems weird they'd want to play it. A significant portion of DA2 is about the unjust treatment of mages and it seems like more than half of the origins in DA:O are setting up the Warden as a member of an oppressed group, whether that's the Carta, the Dalish, the City Elves, or the mages. I see stuff like the dude who was mad about the bi romance options in DA2 and am wondering what game he was playing that he thought that its devs would be in any way likely to give a **** about his homophobic nonsense, because it has little in common with the series I've been playing in all these years.

 

Origins was much less so IMO, early Bioware I would not even really characterize as being that way much at all.. just nerdy people making fun things they thought would be cool for the most part....

 

Also one of the reasons possibly that I dislike DA2 moreso relative to the other games.... the fact that they accelerated all the politics for the most part above and beyond any kind of personally resonant stories.

 

Incidentally I would not automatically equate homophobia with unwillingness to support options for different orientations, etc. Actually I could easily take that as essential evidence that a person isn't homophobic.

 

Generally speaking the people that go out of the way to show unbiased or unprejudiced they are frequently harbor the deepest prejudices of all. Meanwhile, ceasing to play the label game generally for example could provide an opportunity to create more universal characters.

 

All that said, I would agree Bioware has never fundamentally been removed from the SJW fights, just a slightly different brand of it really, the kind that takes issue with the extreme hypersensitive types while still retaining a few bits and pieces of the dogma here and there.

[Jaison1986]

SJW is one of those silly buzz phrases people shouldn't feel ashamed to wear like a badge, anyway. I'm a cultural anthropologist... that effectively makes me something of a "social justice warrior", I suppose. The folks who simply spend 16+ hours a day ranting on blogs about what's "wrong" about pop culture minutia can be quite bothersome, but I would far sooner call them "individuals who maybe need a hobby" rather than warriors (what does this even mean?) of social justice.

 

You don't sound like an SJW. You don't preach enough for that. SJW are generalizing and overly sensitive jerks that love getting angry at people. They have really poor attitude and hide behind their "cause". For example, this is an typical SJW attitude towards others:

 

Person: I don't like Vivienne, I think she is a mean jerk.

 

SJW: You misogynist POS! You only hate her because she is a woman. What an entitled and privileged men you are. Never mind you are racist, because you hate her for being black. Disgusting!

 

Person: What? I never say that. I just don't like her as a person.

 

SJW:  Don't lie to me. You're just trying to hide your internalized misogyny. But's not my job to educate you. Once ignorant aways ignorant. Get out of my face pig!

 

Just never go to tumblr. You are bound to run into them sooner or later. And it's annoying.

[Mihura]

It is lovely that people complain about others spending time at ranting about social issues but somehow people who complain about the complainers do not wast that same time? Seem logical that both extremes are wasting time and no, anti-sjw aren't more mature, to me it seems the same kind of annoying people.

Actually I never saw a SJW posting something here saying "why does xpto game attracts assholes".

[Char]

That blog is vehemently in favor of what it calls "racial homogeneity". Here's a quote:
 
"Cultural Marxists have taken over the institutions of the media, education, mainstream Christianity (conservative and liberal), law, and finance.  Their goal is the annihilation of Western Civilization in general and white people in particular."
 
Wow. Just...wow. It actually mentions that white people adopting non white children or marrying non white people is a bad thing. W.T.F?
 
This is a blog that believes pentecostal churches and Wall Street banks are too progressive. This is what someone railing against so calling social justice warriors put on this forum to explain where they're coming from.
 
White people are not some untouchable uniform group. When Italian, German and Irish people migrated to the US in large numbers in the 19th century they faced prejudice and bigotry. To claim that you can today conflate the issues facing groups as diverse as Scots and Ukranians is ludicrous.

I'm not going to read the blog because I'm too young to give myself an aneurysm, and anything that poses Christianity as the default religion of 'white people' is liable to give my atheist little self a headache, but... Wow.

[JeffZero]

Yeah, I understand, Jaison.

 

...I'd say more but I gotta run to school in a sec.

[Char]

If only I was joking. I'd wrapped the whole bunch up before I went to divide them out and realised that EVERYTHING looks the same when wrapped in three layers of paper and half a roll of sellotape

[sorentoft]

Origins was much less so IMO, early Bioware I would not even really characterize as being that way much at all.. just nerdy people making fun things they thought would be cool for the most part....

 

also one of the reasons possibly that I dislike DA2 moreso relative to the other games.

What, because Anders would hit on you? Seems like a rather silly reason to me. That man is gorgeous.

 

I'm not going to read the blog because I'm too young to give myself an aneurysm, and anything that poses Christianity as the default religion of 'white people' is liable to give my atheist little self a headache, but... Wow.

The default religion of white people is obviously Asetro. I can't believe the followers of the White Christ are still around.

[Seraphim24]

What, because Anders would hit on you? Seems like a rather silly reason to me. That man is gorgeous.

 

The default religion of white people is obviously Asetro. I can't believe the followers of the White Christ are still around.

 

No, DA:O Awakening Anders was a more sarcastic/interesting character generally, kind of edgy and raw. In DA:2 he was mutilated by comparison IMO.

 

Thank you for proving my point though, there are a lot of fans that care way more merely about the label/orientation/sexuality of the character above characterization itself which would be a more progressive thing to actually care about in the grand scheme of things.

 

It's precisely because I care not at all about a person's orientation (and focus on their personality, etc) that I pick up on those kinds of things, you, on the other hand, seem to have revealed that you do care about such irrelevant things, not a good strategy for life, IMHO.

[Mihura]

What, because Anders would hit on you? Seems like a rather silly reason to me. That man is gorgeous.

 

The default religion of white people is obviously Asetro. I can't believe the followers of the White Christ are still around.

 

This is hilarious because it reminds me of the germanic people versus the saxons lol

[Il Divo]

The more i delve deep into the opinions of others, the more I find that SJWs are in love with this game. Most likely the liberal progressive feels bioware were after. However, this much SJW's as made me rethink If I should continue supporting this franchise, DA:O never had them and that was the best game in the franchise.

 

Did DA:O never have them? I wouldn't say that.

 

As it stands, since at least Jade Empire Bioware has demonstrated an increased willingness to support homosexual romances. As of DA2 and DA:I, this has become more prominent. I don't really think anyone should be surprised that a game which demonstrates greater support for female protagonists, homosexual protagonists, etc, is inevitably going to draw a larger fan base from those respective groups.

 

Of course, I do enjoy seeing how many people were throwing fits over their dislike of the straight male romances in DA:I simply because Bioware made one game where they didn't get their way. That seems pretty SJW-like if you ask me. It's also like watching the fan outrage over Korra being bisexual in the new Avatar series that recently finished.

[Seraphim24]

Of course, I do enjoy seeing how much people throw fits over their dislike of the straight male romances in DA:I simply because Bioware made one game where they didn't get their way. That seems pretty SJW-like if you ask me. It's also like watching the fan outrage over Korra being bisexual in the new Avatar series that recently finished.

 

Ugh I'm sorry I keep posting but too many things like this... I'm sorry but "watching people throw fits because they didn't get their way" is almost as childish as the people who complain about the straight romance options. That's now SJWy at all, that's churlish and petty.

 

Hyper entitled straight male gamers and these equally vociferous non-straight(or whatever) gamers both need to get over their respective hatreds and try and critically assess what's causing their problems rather than sling mud back and forth.

 

Just because your straight and male doesn't automatically make you evil, or if you are homosexual and female (or whatever) doesn't automatically make you good.

 

People are just people, period.

[XMissWooX]

This... doesn't really make much sense, anyway.

Unless your biggest gripes with DAI were the number of female or gay characters it contains, I don't really see how you could blame the state of it on SJWs.
The most common criticisms I've see with the game are the combat mechanics, controls, storyline, etc. which can hardly be blamed on SJWs.

[Toasted Llama]

I just want to point out the irony of the OP.


He complains about SJWs and calls himself Dutch, but does he realize that the Netherlands is one of the more liberal countries in the world? Not Sweden-level liberal, but still. First country to legalize gay marriage says something, no?



I'm going to guess this is a really poor troll.

[sorentoft]

No, DA:O Awakening Anders was a more sarcastic/interesting character generally, kind of edgy and raw. In DA:2 he was mutilated by comparison IMO.

 

Thank you for proving my point though, there are a lot of fans that care way more merely about the label/orientation/sexuality of the character above characterization itself which would be a more progressive thing to actually care about in the grand scheme of things.

 

It's precisely because I care not at all about a person's orientation (and focus on their personality, etc) that I pick up on those kinds of things, you, on the other hand, seem to have revealed that you do care about such irrelevant things, not a good strategy for life, IMHO.

Do note I quoted your post before you edited to add more context. In the original post it really did sound like you were annoyed that Anders was bi. Also his character was not mutilated in DA2, it's very obvious that he is struggling with being an abomination throughout the entire story and that's the reason he is not his old self.

[Il Divo]

I just want to point out the irony of the OP.


He complains about SJWs and calls himself Dutch, but does he realize that the Netherlands is one of the more liberal countries in the world? Not Sweden-level liberal, but still. First country to legalize gay marriage says something, no?



I'm going to guess this is a really poor troll.

 

Dutch is the name of the main character in Predator, who is also his avatar.