278 réponses à ce sujet

[RealKobeBean]

Hello everyone. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you.

 

I'm sorry...I wasn't myself...

[DaemionMoadrin]

not with that infernal noise. Snap freeze has the additional issue of being working as intended™, whereas Arc Grenades actually do work as intended. And even with the absurdity that is Grenade Capacity V, you can't literally spam them every 3 seconds for the entire game outside of Rio.

If you can't get similar damage levels out of a DA, that's your problem. It's stupidly fast, virtually invincible due to derp AI as a result, and annihilates both single targets and groups with ease. Quite frankly, I don't know how a QMI would even get to spawns with anything still left to kill assuming a decently played DA were in the same lobby.

But yeah, if you've no idea how to move your character or how combo explosions work than I suppose that just mashing cloak and arcnade on the QMI would be "easier", up until the moment you run into anything that has armor.

 

Minor correction: The Drells aren't as virtually invincible on PC because our AI can keep up with the speed a little bit better.

[acicm2]

Minor correction: The Drells aren't as virtually invincible on PC because our AI can keep up with the speed a little bit better.

 

thought this was due to our extra 30fps.

[DaemionMoadrin]

thought this was due to our extra 30fps.

 

Yes, exactly. Did I say differently?

[Terminator Force]

You know, on my new PS3 manifest, if I unlock the Jug in my next few purchases. I'm so speccing and going melee focus Puggernaut. And see if I can solve this melee Puggernaut mystery once and for all...

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Maybe for you. I'm totally fine with that. I'd rather have people who understand the game mechanics that are taking the grenades and doing damage with them than noobs who are merely using them to infinitely keep their AIU or TGI from dying when it should without actually doing anything to advance the game. I actually prefer melee jugs to the two latter, as their invincibility button doesn't waste grenades.

 

I enjoy melee Jugs. They tank for the team, and that gets my respect. They try to be team players. Most people with insanely high DPS kits don't care about teamwork.

[ClydeInTheShell]

You know, on my new PS3 manifest, if I unlock the Jug in my next few purchases. I'm so speccing and going melee focus Puggernaut. And see if I can solve this melee Puggernaut mystery once and for all...

...only it's not a mystery. It's a noob machine.

[justinman114]

Jugg melee should be used to regain shields (I usually just get the gate back and continue using my gun/Siege Pulse) or to incapacitate a target, i.e. Phantoms.  I would never build him for melee damage though, or use melee gear.  It's just silly.

[justinman114]

Thanks for the like Tom Brady, I like you too.  No ****** of course, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

I do wonder if that account was made specifically to troll me, if that is the case, I am flattered.

 

[Terminator Force]

...only it's not a mystery. It's a noob machine.

 

There's more to the mystery then just that.

[ClydeInTheShell]

There's more to the mystery then just that.

We'll see what you discover first:

 

Another reason to "retire" from me3; or

 

An answer to this "mystery" with a perspective that no one else shares. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

We'll see what you discover first:

 

Another reason to "retire" from me3; or

 

An answer to this "mystery" with a perspective that no one else shares. 

 

Probably both. Sinful is like the guy who gets fired for spreading insane conspiracy theories at work and then proclaims that he didn't want to work there anyway.

[Quarian Master Race]

I enjoy melee Jugs. They tank for the team, and that gets my respect. They try to be team players. Most people with insanely high DPS kits don't care about teamwork.

Arc grenades are one of the most teamwork capable powers in this game. They prime tech bursts and detonate all other tech effects over a huge radius. Further, QMI has Tactical Scan, which due to its lengthy casting animation is arguably a debuff designed mostly for the benefit of teammates. A well played QMI increases the damage output of every weapon and tech user in the lobby. Even if they don't pay attention to teammates at all, they are still priming and detonating everything within a 10m radius.

Standing in a corner behind your hex shield doing nothing but holding heavy melee on one target at a time helps no one. "Tanking" in this game isn't a useful strategy as it would be in some party based RPGs and MMOs. The aggro and class mechanics don't support or encourage it, and the damage dealing/CC kits (which I would argue are the only type in this game) can survive on their own with no issues. It's only useful if the lobby is playing in a difficulty above its skill level. A well played Jugg can detonate tech on single targets with the Siege Pulses and heal with the turret assuming its teammates haven't already killed everything before it gets to do so, but that's pretty much it, and "well played" and melee Puggernaut are mutually exclusive anyway.

I know which one I'd rather have. Shield boosting volus is also "teamwork", but I'd frankly rather have someone with a rubber band on their controller than a leech who screws up my reloads, locks out my controls and gets me killed.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Arc grenades are one of the most teamwork capable powers in this game. They prime tech bursts and detonate all other tech effects over a huge radius. Further, QMI has Tactical Scan, which due to its lengthy casting animation is arguably a debuff designed mostly for the benefit of teammates. A well played QMI increases the damage output of every weapon and tech user in the lobby. Even if they don't pay attention to teammates at all, they are still priming and detonating everything within a 10m radius.

Standing in a corner behind your hex shield doing nothing but holding heavy melee on one target at a time helps no one. "Tanking" in this game isn't a useful strategy as it would be in some party based RPGs and MMOs. The aggro and class mechanics don't support or encourage it, and the damage dealing/CC kits (which I would argue are the only type in this game) can survive on their own with no issues. It's only useful if the lobby is playing in a difficulty above its skill level. A well played Jugg can detonate tech on single targets with the Siege Pulses and heal with the turret assuming its teammates haven't already killed everything before it gets to do so, but that's pretty much it, and "well played" and melee Puggernaut are mutually exclusive anyway.

I know which one I'd rather have. Shield boosting volus is also "teamwork", but I'd frankly rather have someone with a rubber band on their controller than a leech who screws up my reloads, locks out my controls and gets me killed.

 

Arc grenades are one of the most destroy everything powers in the game. Anyone who knows arc grenades knows they don't need a teammate to destroy everything with them. A melee juggernaut...they can't do that. They can still make a great contribution. Obviously they can't do that by just running up to everything but denying banshees the opportunities to sync kill and drawing fire from primes allows three other players to fight with total impunity.

 

QME and QMI are *almost* as lame as the Talon Merc. If pure DPS is what constitutes good teamplay, though, then almost everything is scrub tier compared to the Blow Up Everything guy.

[Terminator Force]

Probably both. Sinful is like the guy who gets fired for spreading insane conspiracy theories at work and then proclaims that he didn't want to work there anyway.

 

I haven't had a real job in ages. Ain't nobody got time for real jobs with so much conspiracy out there to solve.

[LuckyStarr]

Shield boosting volus is also "teamwork", but I'd frankly rather have someone with a rubber band on their controller than a leech who screws up my reloads, locks out my controls and gets me killed.

Note to self: never take shield boost when playing Volus.

[Quarian Master Race]

Arc grenades are one of the most destroy everything powers in the game. Anyone who knows arc grenades knows they don't need a teammate to destroy everything with them. A melee juggernaut...they can't do that. They can still make a great contribution. Obviously they can't do that by just running up to everything but denying banshees the opportunities to sync kill and drawing fire from primes allows three other players to fight with total impunity.

 

QME and QMI are *almost* as lame as the Talon Merc. If pure DPS is what constitutes good teamplay, though, then almost everything is scrub tier compared to the Blow Up Everything guy.

I don't need a teammate to destroy everything with virtually any setup because this game's AI is completely predictable and easy to trivialize. The kit chosen just affects the time taken to do so. Otherwise, we wouldn't have solo threads with hundreds or thousands of entries in them.

That's your opinion. In mine, DPS and teamplay are not mutually exclusive. Arc Grenades have the ability to interact with dozens of different teammate abilites. Melee jugg doesn't interact with anything teammates do unless the team is utterly terrible (I.E. actually gets killed by banshees frequently). Actually, I'd argue it is one of the biggest detriments because it enables bad players to play in a difficulty they don't belong in sometimes without being punished with failure if the rest of the team isn't up to the task. 

I had a game just a couple days ago wherein a Puggernaut and two of his friends did literally nothing but sit in a corner behind a hex shield in a revive train while I tripled their combined contribution in terms of score, and did every single objective on all 3 waves with a Widow 3 and Level 1 consumables (hardly "Pure DPS"). Teamwork at its finest, no doubt. If the moronic puggernaut and its leecher friends had followed me around doing nothing but chucking Arc Grenades at things I was priming and shooting, the game would have finished faster with less consumables used, and everyone would have enjoyed themselves more because I might have actually had a chance of keeping them alive. Or they could have played bronze or silver where they belonged, and not been out of their depth needing me to carry them to get past wave 2.

Seems you're just upset at experienced people killing things before your lesser DPS setup can get there and conflating their playstyle with the kit, but they aren't beholden to making sure you are happy with your level 1 volus merc or whatever. Quit the lobby in that case. There are plenty of terrible puggernauts, worlards, TGIs and AIUs to carry in pugland with if that's what you desire.

Ignoring the point that it isn't relevant to my argument, no, Arc Grenades are not objectively comparable to the Cain spamming Merc, not until I can carry 15+ at a time, regenerate them passively and they can kill a full health Possesed Praetorian or Atlas as well as every mook in the spawn in a couple of seconds. Actually, I'd put them behind clusters as well because they do peanuts to armor by comparison (its academic, though, most grenades are very powerful and spammable) but clusters still annihilate mooks over a huge radius as well. If you can't find anything to kill, its an L2P issue, but I never have any issues.

[DaemionMoadrin]

You are not wrong... but Arc Grenades are excellent at ****** up biotics, too. Which isn't very team oriented.

[EnemySpinach]

Real talk: If a Juggernaut can keep the banshees/praetorians/phantoms/etc busy, everyone else can go balls to the wall ballistic (pun not intended but acknowledged) with their own offense without worrying about survival. It takes an orchestrated team, but I'd argue that a melee juggy, in the right circumstances, is the ultimate team player in ME3, closely followed by the Volus Engineer for their ability to make the entire team do +45% damage (+25 from Invasive Scan and +20 from Prox Mine) and Shield Boost.

 

I'm not saying that Arc Grenades are not a good power for teamwork potential. But it's far more situational. A Melee jug can work in any orchestrated team, while Arc Grenades are dependant on not competing over a limited grenade supply, and having tech based/compatible teammates (In a fully biotic team, for example, it's less than ideal.)

 

I love Quarians. I really do. They're easily my favorite race in all of ME, thanks in no small part to Tali, of course. But I can't mince facts to elevate them, either.

[Quarian Master Race]

You are not wrong... but Arc Grenades are excellent at ****** up biotics, too. Which isn't very team oriented.

I care. Find your own targets, leave the lobby or petition bioware to change how the priming system works if the absolute travesty that you are killing the enemy with tech bursts instead of BEs actually rustles your jimmies that much for some reason.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Real talk: If a Juggernaut can keep the banshees/praetorians/phantoms/etc busy, everyone else can go balls to the wall ballistic (pun not intended but acknowledged) with their own offense without worrying about survival. It takes an orchestrated team, but I'd argue that a melee juggy, in the right circumstances, is the ultimate team player in ME3, closely followed by the Volus Engineer for their ability to make the entire team do +45% damage (+25 from Invasive Scan and +20 from Prox Mine) and Shield Boost.

 

I'm not saying that Arc Grenades are not a good power for teamwork potential. But it's far more situational. A Melee jug can work in any orchestrated team, while Arc Grenades are dependant on not competing over a limited grenade supply, and having tech based/compatible teammates (In a fully biotic team, for example, it's less than ideal.)

 

I love Quarians. I really do. They're easily my favorite race in all of ME, thanks in no small part to Tali, of course. But I can't mince facts to elevate them, either.

 

No single Juggernaut can tank all the bosses on the map at the same time. Which means your team still has to watch out and stay close to the big Geth, which limits their mobility and (kill) speed.

Any reasonably sturdy kit can tank Banshees or Atlas, as long as they stand on a ramp. I'm doing it fairly often with my other soldiers who can also kill those things very, very quickly.

[q5tyhj]

Melee jugg doesn't interact with anything teammates do unless the team is utterly terrible

Right, because having a spammable tech detonator doesn't interact with anything teammates do... And drawing aggro and standing enemies in one place (the one saving grace of the melee puggernaut) is hardly useless either- other players can put out that pure unadulterated DPS without having to relocate, duck into cover, or do the other things that interrupt DPS output when they're the ones with aggro. 

[DisturbedPsic0]

Right, because having a spammable tech detonator doesn't interact with anything teammates do... And drawing aggro and standing enemies in one place (the one saving grace of the melee puggernaut) is hardly useless either- other players can put out that pure unadulterated DPS without having to relocate, duck into cover, or do the other things that interrupt DPS output when they're the ones with aggro. 

The Jugg is a great teammate if he's shooting and siege pulsing. If all they do is stand around and melee it's more annoying that helpful. Having a melee jugg hold aggro from the bosses stunts your growth at the game. What happens when they inevitably die and now you have to survive without them? I've said all throughout this thread that I don't condone melee jugg play because it's not helpful to play a man down the whole game, and it stunts the growth of whoever is playing the jugg. I do understand why they feel the need to play that way, which is to "help" on higher difficulties and get more credits.  I still think it's more fun and rewarding to learn to play all kits at that level, instead of staying stuck in a rut with one character, doing the same thing over and over and over again.

 

 

I care. Find your own targets, leave the lobby or petition bioware to change how the priming system works if the absolute travesty that you are killing the enemy with tech bursts instead of BEs actually rustles your jimmies that much for some reason.

Did someone put some salt in your intake valve? You seem super salty in this thread. Not that I'm condoning melee jugg, but you whine about them not being team players and ruining the experience for you, and then ****** and moan when people want team synergy and tell them to leave. Maybe you need a vacation to Rannoch so you can take your suit off and get some fresh air.

[Swan Killer]

To me it feels like the melee-only PUGgy is made for the Giant/Reapers/Plat noobfest, where the Puggernaut steps forward and draws the aggro and the "team" is spamming snapcheeze and flamer behind him at the LZ.