278 réponses à ce sujet

[Quarian Master Race]

Real talk: If a Juggernaut can keep the banshees/praetorians/phantoms/etc busy, everyone else can go balls to the wall ballistic (pun not intended but acknowledged) with their own offense without worrying about survival. It takes an orchestrated team, but I'd argue that a melee juggy, in the right circumstances, is the ultimate team player in ME3, closely followed by the Volus Engineer for their ability to make the entire team do +45% damage (+25 from Invasive Scan and +20 from Prox Mine) and Shield Boost.

 

I'm not saying that Arc Grenades are not a good power for teamwork potential. But it's far more situational. A Melee jug can work in any orchestrated team, while Arc Grenades are dependant on not competing over a limited grenade supply, and having tech based/compatible teammates (In a fully biotic team, for example, it's less than ideal.)

 

I love Quarians. I really do. They're easily my favorite race in all of ME, thanks in no small part to Tali, of course. But I can't mince facts to elevate them, either.

Puggernauts don't help me do that even if they are the only other player in the lobby because save for the phantoms (due to their ranged attack) all those things are easy to avoid.

The only team a melee puggernaut works in is one wherein the person playing it and everyone else is not as good as the difficulty they are playing in. In a proper team, it literally won't kill anything and will not "tank" anything either because the other players either can avoid the armor slabs or kill them easily. There isn't a single situation where I'd rather have someone standing in one place taking more than a minute meleeing single banshees to death than someone who can actually kill or help me kill things. It's barely better than me soloing. Your argument for the volus is better because he does indeed have two debuffs and played properly can increase the efficiency of good teammates. So can the Jugg with the detonator that is siege pulse, but that isn't playing it melee which is what we are discussing, and which does literally nothing but provide a pitiful amount of damage.

I'm not inflating anything. Some are trying to make the patently ridiculous claim that Arc Grenades are selfish compared to the melee puggernaut, when the former interacts positively with the rest of the team's powers and latter is almost exclusively used by selfish players to play in a difficulty in which they don't belong and stand in the box of shame for the entire game while hardly contributing anything at all.

[David Diablo]

I should join in on the snitching and report everyone who defends the melee jug for making a poor impersonation of a mentally handicapped person...   

[Creator Limbs]

I care. Find your own targets, leave the lobby or petition bioware to change how the priming system works if the absolute travesty that you are killing the enemy with tech bursts instead of BEs actually rustles your jimmies that much for some reason.

 

>tech bursts

>killing enemies

 

pick one

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Seems you're just upset at experienced people killing things before your lesser DPS setup can get there and conflating their playstyle with the kit, but they aren't beholden to making sure you are happy with your level 1 volus merc or whatever. Quit the lobby in that case. There are plenty of terrible puggernauts, worlards, TGIs and AIUs to carry in pugland with if that's what you desire.

 

Upset? No. Bored? Oh absolutely. I'm not "retired" or anything but I'm taking a break from the MP. Too many people who race for points instead of working together. And people who take the QME and QMI and Talon are almost always one in the same--scorewhores who play for points. I won't indulge their idiocy. That doesn't mean everyone who plays those kits is that way, I know many people aren't. Unfortunately they're a small minority and this game overly rewards DPS at the cost of everything else in the game. I'm not really trying to make a logical argument here. I'm just bitching at the shitty game balancing.

 

But a reserved Juggernaut who melees can help the team out a lot without having to be a DPS monster. It's one of the few kits capable of doing that. So I think that's a pretty cool way to play.

[q5tyhj]

The Jugg is a great teammate if he's shooting and siege pulsing. If all they do is stand around and melee it's more annoying that helpful. Having a melee jugg hold aggro from the bosses stunts your growth at the game. 

 We're worried about our "growth" at the game, at this point... Why, exactly?

 

And if I want to "grow", I'll do something like work on a plat solo, maybe with a kit/weapon/map I'm less comfortable with- whether I have a melee puggernaut in a pub lobby or not isn't going to make any significant difference, and I suspect nearly everyone participating in the discussion here (i.e. seasoned ME3 players for the most part) is in a similar boat at this point.

 

What happens when they inevitably die and now you have to survive without them? 

You have to survive without them. 

[acicm2]

 

 

But a reserved Juggernaut who melees can help the team out a lot without having to be a DPS monster. It's one of the few kits capable of doing that. So I think that's a pretty cool way to play.

 

no better feeling than argo dumping on a juggy.

[Quarian Master Race]

Did someone put some salt in your intake valve? You seem super salty in this thread. Not that I'm condoning melee jugg, but you whine about them not being team players and ruining the experience for you, and then ****** and moan when people want team synergy and tell them to leave. Maybe you need a vacation to Rannoch so you can take your suit off and get some fresh air.

lolno. I like making fun of people who get upset about tech characters "ruining" their biotics because it is a ridiculous complaint that I can't actually take seriously. Also, what have I said that constitutes "whining"? I'm making the argument that melee puggernauts aren't useful in comparison to a competent Arc Grenade user as another poster claimed they were.

You seem mad enough at me for no seemingly no reason to respond to me personally with accusations of "whining" instead of any arguments in question I've made. Perhaps you should stop being so "salty" at the opinions of random people over the internet, no?

[DisturbedPsic0]

 

 We're worried about our "growth" at the game, at this point... Why, exactly?

 

And if I want to "grow", I'll do something like work on a plat solo, maybe with a kit/weapon/map I'm less comfortable with- whether I have a melee puggernaut in a pub lobby or not isn't going to make any significant difference, and I suspect nearly everyone participating in the discussion here (i.e. seasoned ME3 players for the most part) is in a similar boat at this point.

 

You have to survive without them. 

 

You mistake me for someone talking about ME3 seasoned players are the ones who would be stunted. Anyone who plays a melee Jugg is new. I don't think you'll find many if any regular veterans here who will play one. They are stunting their growth by playing like that. Instead they could be learning RHA, or tech or biotic combos, holding the line and falling back, learning maps, learning enemy movement and patterns, getting better with specific weapons, etc. Standing there and holding melee isn't playing the game. And it's a lot easier to learn a new kit or weapons and experiment with a team of players instead of soloing, which was the point I was getting at.

[DisturbedPsic0]

Also, what have I said that constitutes "whining"?

 

I care. Find your own targets, leave the lobby or petition bioware to change how the priming system works if the absolute travesty that you are killing the enemy with tech bursts instead of BEs actually rustles your jimmies that much for some reason.

 

^^  The old favorite take your ball and go home if you don't want to play in my yard argument. 

 

 

You seem mad enough at me for no seemingly no reason to respond to me personally with accusations of "whining" instead of any arguments in question I've made. Perhaps you should stop being so "salty" at the opinions of random people over the internet, no?

Nah I'm not mad, just noticed these responses of yours were unusually salty, even for you. I don't think Arc grenades are easy mode or even close to melee jugg mindlessness, but then again I don't have a favorite kit or weapon or species in the game, so there's that.

[q5tyhj]

You mistake me for someone talking about ME3 seasoned players are the ones who would be stunted. Anyone who plays a melee Jugg is new. I don't think you'll find many if any regular veterans here who will play one. They are stunting their growth by playing like that. Instead they could be learning RHA, or tech or biotic combos, holding the line and falling back, learning maps, learning enemy movement and patterns, getting better with specific weapons, etc. Standing there and holding melee isn't playing the game. And it's a lot easier to learn a new kit or weapons and experiment with a team of players instead of soloing, which was the point I was getting at.

Sure, but so what? Not sure why that matters to you or me- if another player wants to "grow" and explicitly asks me for advice I'll oblige them, but I don't go around worrying about whether other players kit/loadout/whatever choices are optimizing their ability to "grow" (at a very old game).  And in any case, I don't buy that the people who complain about (or even advocate yelling at or somehow chastising) puggernauts do so out of a concern for that other players "growth"- I suspect the real motives are far less altruistic. 

[DisturbedPsic0]

Sure, but so what? Not sure why that matters to you or me- if another player wants to "grow" and explicitly asks me for advice I'll oblige them, but I don't go around worrying about whether other players kit/loadout/whatever choices are optimizing their ability to "grow" (at a very old game).  And in any case, I don't buy that the people who complain about (or even advocate yelling at or somehow chastising) puggernauts do so out of a concern for that other players "growth"- I suspect the real motives are far less altruistic. 

Well of course the people who are complaining are selfish. They slow the game down. Having a melee jugg isn't that much different from having someone trying something new and dying a lot. Both players haven't done much to kill enemies, but both have drawn aggro. The difference is one is trying and another isn't. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I like to try and do well in whatever it is I'm doing and I'd like to think others are the same way. If I'm not doing well, I don't mind if others help me get better, and I'd like to think others are the same way. Also I've figured out most people aren't that outgoing and won't straight up ask for help. I'll offer it and either they'll listen or they won't, but I'll try anyway, I don't care how old the game is. As I've said before, this game does a terrible job at informing the playing of a lot of it's mechanics, and unless the player comes to these forums, their general game/weapon/kit knowledge is going to be extremely low. So my first instinct isn't to belittle, but to help.

[TheNightSlasher]

Excluding cain mines, arc grenades have the highest damage to ease of use ratio. Arc grenades have a good damage and have a huge radius. It primes and detonates tech combos, and goes through walls.

 

No other grenade power (excl. cain mines, as said in the beginning) is so easy to use. Clusters can bounce off walls unless you throw directly at the enemy and clusters don't go off on impact. Arcs don't suffer from either of those. I can hit two marauders a good distance away with a single arc grenade. It'll prime them and stagger them. Compare it to clusters. The success rate of arcs is significantly higher.

 

And then there's the impact through walls. Imagine playing geth or cerberus on say, a glacier. When enemies spawn in basement, arc grenades can be thrown basically anywhere around the basement without needing to have LoS. And it'll stagger the mooks in the spawn, priming them for TB and in most cases, very nearly removing their shields. A cluster/frag character can't even come close. If they don't have LoS, they lose damage and grenades may bounce off weirdly. They need LoS to make the most of it, and that's not a good sign as you'll be going up against phantoms, primes, GRTs etc. Ya, glacier is an extreme but a similar argument can be applied to all maps.

 

Arguments like 'I can find to kill things', 'you must L2P' are well and good if you've played the game long enough. But from a purely third person point of view, arc grenades are way way more easier to use than any other grenade power.

 

The only downside of arc grenades is it's weakness against armor. But look at the 3 characters with the power. QME and demolisher have armor destroying powers. And QMI has cloak, and anyone who has played this game long enough will acknowledge that it is one of the most OP powers.

 

As far as the damage to ease of use ratio is concerned, arc grenades are #1. Nothing else comes close. Yes, you can make other things work but from a neutral's perspective, arcs are well and truly #1 in that list.

[DisturbedPsic0]

Thinking the Jug is a good melee character is like saying there is a better QB than me.

Maybe others aren't as good because they don't deflate footballs.

[DisturbedPsic0]

The score was 45-7 I highly doubt that had anything to do with it.

Is that the only game you've played? Or the only game you've gotten caught? I see through your smile Mr. Brady.

[q5tyhj]

Well of course the people who are complaining are selfish. They slow the game down. 

Compared to a more experienced player, with better weapons/gear? Obviously, but that's true across the board, nothing unique to puggernauts. Do they slow the game down compared to an empty slot in the lobby? Well no, obviously not- unless they're ignoring objective waves (i.e. prolonging hacks/escorts by not being in the circle, for instance), but then that's a different story. 

[q5tyhj]

Put it this way- especially at this point in the game/servers lifespan, I'm mostly just happy to have people to fill public lobbies, and not really worried at all about what kits people play, whether they're optimizing their "growth", or their DPS, or anything like this. And actually sending messages or getting on your mic to criticize people because they don't play a game the way you prefer to play it is just silly.

[q5tyhj]

Yeah like complaining about the rule changes

Lol, L2read problems. I like the rule changes. But supposing that rule changes designed to increase scoring and offense coinciding with linear increases in scoring, comp %, yardage and other offensive metrics was accidental rather than causal is just delusional. 

[q5tyhj]

Surely you can troll harder than that- but maybe create another "I heart Tom Brady" fanboy thread so this one doesn't get locked? 

[q5tyhj]

My last one didn't get locked. Got moved. L2read problems?

I never said it did (so yes, your L2 issue continues), but this thread probably will.