140 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

Yep, pretty much everything in this game is clipping, so I don't see why how that argument against hair can be serious at all. I don't even mind the clipping and most people who use mods don't mind it too.

 

I find it also a bit strange that they can give us two completly new throne models but no armor and so on. I mean, they are pretty, but I don't remember anyone asking for these? Shouldn't other things be more important? It's cool to provide players of the previous games with these special things as a reward, but should't they focus on the current players of this game first?

 

I agree with everything you said. If this forum had a community manager who could clarify those issues with a simple "yes we work on that /no we don't" most of us would actually stop complaining so much. That's like a win-win situation.

Thanks, I agree it would be a win-win. And I forgot about the thrones. It really does highlight their odd priorities. Instead of modelling those 2 huge things, couldn't they have made a couple of hairs or armour sets?

[BansheeOwnage]

Seriously. I'm playing the Winter Palace right now and it's hilarious how many things clip. My human Inquisitor's neck clips with his suit, Brialla's hair clips through her mask, Morrigan's hair clips through her cheek, the list goes on and on. And that's just clipping issues, to say nothing of the many Ballgoers who are stuck moonwalking in place XD

 

And it's not these technical issues that bug me, they don;t. But that notion that Bioware can't or won't make additions and fixes that players have requested for fear of clipping or other technical issues is downright laughable.

Don't forget the clipping in the dance!

[10K]

I forgot about the broken Male elf arms :/

 

Dang, and I was gonna start a male elf playthough next too...

I did also, but when I started my second nightmare playthrough today I was sorely reminded 

[Grieving Natashina]

We have one of those?

Yep, at least technically.  He hasn't been on since mid February.

 

http://forum.bioware...avid-hulegaard/

 

 

I'm almost 100% positive the reason why BW wouldn't want to implement an armor toggle for Skyhold is because of cutscenes. I've used the Cheat Engine to toggle my armor on, and even with pretty low-profile mage hoodies there's some clipping and weirdness with the camera. Modders are free to flip that switch because they don't have to worry about the game's integrity past giving players the short-term fix they want. BW doesn't have that luxury.

 

And, really, that's what most of your complaints come down to. Modders can do the things they do because they don't have to worry about anything beyond the specific thing they're doing. BW doesn't have that luxury. They have to pay attention to everything, and even when they are trying the complicated nature of the engine means that stuff still gets screwed up (and more people get angry). And this is on top of working on whatever comes next. 

Thanks for letting me know about the clipping.  I didn't catch that in the video I watched.  And I agree about the modders 100%.  They can get away with things like that, BioWare can't.  After I put some more thought into it, that's why I put the idea of cheap appearance packs out there.  If we can't get the armor in Skyhold for that reason, maybe a few different colors for the clothes could be feasible.  Like red, black and dark blue in an appearance pack.

[BansheeOwnage]

Come to think of it, with all this talk about resource allocation, isn't the fact that Bioware has put out appearance/weapon/armour packs for all of their recent games "proof" they could implement the aesthetic changes we've requested (also potentially as DLC)? They managed to do all of those alongside the development of DLC, and both SP and MP DLC in ME3. They even did a couple in DA2.

[KBomb]

Oh believe me I noticed the MP gets lots of nice free stuff that's new, and for a non-MP player it irks me quite a bit. I feel if they can add Isabela to the MP, why not add a few things to the BE too? I'm still grateful for the ability to change my looks and get armor that was impossible to find before, but that is one tiny thing that just bugs me more than it should I guess.

I don't think you're entitled or ungrateful for feeling that way. I won't lie, when I watched the trailer and saw Isabela using some slick moves that rogues don't have access to in SP and seeing how awesome she looked, knowing that they crafted a unique hairstyle for her and yet, we have some pretty crappy styles--it bugged me. Do I think Bioware owes me better gear, armor, hair, Skyhold outfit, etc? Absolutely not. I am also grateful for the BE as it's something that I find value in.

It still bugs me when I see the quality of hairstyles they can implement, but didn't. I see Isabela's, Josephine's, Cassandra's and Calpernia's and I know those were possible. I see how lovely and groomed Cassandra's and Josephine's eyebrows are and I know it was possible. I see the detail that went into some of the clothing and mask's in Orlais and I know it was possible to give us something else besides that Skyhold outfits. I understand it's the game they made and they don't owe me anything. However; it does make me wonder why they didn't give that level of detail from the beginning. It makes me wonder why we're given things like thrones and armors that look exactly like the ones we already have, when they could have given us something that is being asked for continuously.

It is what it is, though.

[AlanC9]

It still bugs me when I see the quality of hairstyles they can implement, but didn't. I see Isabela's, Josephine's, Cassandra's and Calpernia's and I know those were possible. I see how lovely and groomed Cassandra's and Josephine's eyebrows are and I know it was possible.

Well, having those hairstyles and eyebrows on NPCs doesn't really mean that the CC could handle them. Aren't primary NPCs typically built in a completely different fashion from the PC?

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't think you're entitled or ungrateful for feeling that way. I won't lie, when I watched the trailer and saw Isabela using some slick moves that rogues don't have access to in SP and seeing how awesome she looked, knowing that they crafted a unique hairstyle for her and yet, we have some pretty crappy styles--it bugged me. Do I think Bioware owes me better gear, armor, hair, Skyhold outfit, etc? Absolutely not. I am also grateful for the BE as it's something that I find value in.

It still bugs me when I see the quality of hairstyles they can implement, but didn't. I see Isabela's, Josephine's, Cassandra's and Calpernia's and I know those were possible. I see how lovely and groomed Cassandra's and Josephine's eyebrows are and I know it was possible. I see the detail that went into some of the clothing and mask's in Orlais and I know it was possible to give us something else besides that Skyhold outfits. I understand it's the game they made and they don't owe me anything. However; it does make me wonder why they didn't give that level of detail from the beginning. It makes me wonder why we're given things like thrones and armors that look exactly like the ones we already have, when they could have given us something that is being asked for continuously.

It is what it is, though.

I too, wonder why they didn't put more effort and detail into the Inquisitor in terms of looks. It's a pretty important part of an RPG where you create a character. It's almost like they forgot to make an Inquisitor when they were testing, then scrambled to make an outfit and a few hairs a few months before launch

[KBomb]

Well, having those hairstyles and eyebrows on NPCs doesn't really mean that the CC could handle them. Aren't primary NPCs typically built in a completely different fashion from the PC?

I'll be honest, Alan. I know very little of the technical side of things. I can't imagine it would be such a vast canyon between what we have now and for instance, Josephine's. I cannot imagine that they couldn't implement something more than all those buzz cuts and pattern baldness. Am I wrong? I very well could be, but --and no disrespect to them-- I have seen games made years ago with better hair styles than what is present in DAI.

And I can't imagine it would have been too difficult to make armors unique for each class, at least. There are a lot of schematics, but they all look closely identical.

As I said, I am speaking from my assumptions only and I would not be afraid to say that I was wrong if proven so, but it just seems if they can implement graphical effects to make a lute into a weapon and make Isebela do pirouettes whilst fighting, then surely they can manage to merge a hairstyle from a NPC into CC.

[Grieving Natashina]

I too, wonder why they didn't put more effort and detail into the Inquisitor in terms of looks. It's a pretty important part of an RPG where you create a character. It's almost like they forgot to make an Inquisitor when they were testing, then scrambled to make an outfit and a few hairs a few months before launch

My guess is that the majority of the hair we got was already in the engine.  That would explain the sheer number of bald hairstyles, the default sideburns and the wonky eyebrows.  I'm not justifying it, however I think that's what happened.  I'm still shaking my head at a dozen beds, some of which are very detailed, windows that are easy to overlook,  taking priority over the CC options.  I know I'm not the only one that almost never goes into my bedroom at Skyhold outside of forced cutscenes.

[Gundar3]

I find it funny that no one really knows what the heck is going on at BW.  It cant possibly be the "toxicity" of these forums.  Thats too pathetic to be true for a lack of developer feedback.  

 

I waited months for this with the assumption that we would get new things.  Not the same stuff, that we may or may not like.  This just strikes me, like pretty much the rest of the game, as woefully mediocre.  So yeah, we got some schematics in the game from items that are already there.  Great...  It could have, and should have been a feature from the start if we could have broken down items for schematics (like actual crafting).  But at least we can now change our appearance in game, which is entirely positive.

 

But the hair, clothing, NEW armors.  Thats clearly what people actually wanted.  I mean hell, people are willing to PAY for these things.  It could have been an extraordinarily obvious revenue stream.  As has been demonstrated in the past, people like to change the appearance of their companions, purchase unique armors, and are generally willing to spend money on things that make them feel unique.

 

And please don't defend BW because something is "free".  "Free" is irrelevant, if its not something you don't want, or don't care about.  Which for me, is the latter here.  I did care, but I don't now, so my reaction can only be "Neato...  Now are you gonna work on things we actually want?"

 

At best... I hope that BW is going to use this as a marketing tool to add DLC cosmetics, which we are willing to buy, in the future.  I think thats really the only hope we have left for basic features and additions, because the shelf-life for this game continues to deteriorate. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I find it funny that no one really knows what the heck is going on at BW.  It cant possibly be the "toxicity" of these forums.  Thats too pathetic to be true for a lack of developer feedback.  

 

For the developers and writers, I'll stand by that statement.  The forums can be toxic for them, and frankly, it isn't really their job.  They don't have to be here.  BioWare hired someone for that.  Someone did get the job after Jessica and technically speaking, we do have a community manager. 

 

That's my issue with BioWare's poor communication at the moment.  Everything I've read about a forum community manager says that about 40%-50% of a community manager's job involves directly interacting with the forums.  I've got a post around that shows what sources I used and where I got my stats.  What has me very frustrated is the fact that yes, we do have a community manager and he's completely absent.  Unless BioWare takes a very hands-off approach, David Hulegaard isn't doing part of his job.  He hasn't posted since mid November, and hasn't even been online since February. 

[Zjarcal]

All ya ppl ranting cuz of failed expectations, I didn't even know the Black Emporium was a thing for DAI till I loaded the game today to play the Hahaku or whatever its name dlc is, and I was like "oh wut is dis, Emporium dlc? Do we get a mirror? We do?!? Hooray!!".

 

Ignorance is bliss.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[TaHol]

Thanks, I agree it would be a win-win. And I forgot about the thrones. It really does highlight their odd priorities. Instead of modelling those 2 huge things, couldn't they have made a couple of hairs or armour sets?

This. The whole argument of "it is soooo much work to do this and that you plebs have no idea" looses it's ground when they DO HAVE TIME to do two thrones that no one EVER asked and wanted. Never have I seen here a thread asking for more thrones. I have seen gazillion threads asking for hairs, eyebrows and casual clothing (or anything to get rid on PJ's). Clipping is similar argument: no ground. I played as a Qunari-mage and all the time his jaw was clipping through his clothes and chest and whatever, it never bothered BioWare so why should they suddenly care so much? Thruth is ppl defending Bioware has very little ground anymore where to stand and arguments get more and more deluded all the time.

[aphelion4]

How is it impressive?They have no worry or care.If most modders were thrown in AAA development they would end up being depressed or exuasted.You or modders have not experienced what is like to worry about stuff like I posted.Modders take credit if it is a great mod but if the mod is screwed up it's okay.It was free.What the hell?You can't compare a nobody to a professional when put into different work environments.Either both should be held to the same standards or not at all compared.It is typical "I think I can do better".

 

As someone who has hair/clothing meshing/texturing experience, it would take me probably a week to three weeks to have a working hair model, and that is with me procrastinating and taking my sweet ass time with it with working on it maybe 2-5 hours a day. I am entirely self-taught. A team of college-educated people on the other hand would have results a lot quicker than I would, assuming they actually work while at work. In the Sims community, a lot of the hair creators are between the age of 14-20, who have school and social lives. If they can do it, there's no reason the game dev team can't.

[Grieving Natashina]

This. The whole argument of "it is soooo much work to do this and that you plebs have no idea" looses it's ground when they DO HAVE TIME to do two thrones that no one EVER asked and wanted. Never have I seen here a thread asking for more thrones. I have seen gazillion threads asking for hairs, eyebrows and casual clothing (or anything to get rid on PJ's). Clipping is similar argument: no ground. I played as a Qunari-mage and all the time his jaw was clipping through his clothes and chest and whatever, it never bothered BioWare so why should they suddenly care so much? Thruth is ppl defending Bioware has very little ground anymore where to stand and arguments get more and more deluded all the time.

The thrones were one thing, but the beds?  A dozen beds for a room that has maybe 4-5 scenes total in it.  The thrones I can get, because of how often the player is usually in the main hall doing judgments or running around talking to party members.  Even the windows, decor and banners makes slightly more sense, since those are in areas that we actually spend time in.  It's silly, but I can at least look at it.  But about a dozen well detailed beds, windows, thrones, a ton of mounts (who asked for that many kinds of mounts, because I never saw the requests) > CC options.  Why?  

[Vylix]

This is a little off topic, but I'd like to point out one thing I've found with black emporium that may give you all a bit of a smile. If you buy and craft the Dalish Warrior Armor and run around in it, the front flap flies forth from time to time, revealing your androgynous lady-bits to the world. Imagine making the speech where your inquisitor is crowned and your lady-bits are peaking out, waving to the world. 

 

Best armor accident ever.

[Grieving Natashina]

This is a little off topic, but I'd like to point out one thing I've found with black emporium that may give you all a bit of a smile. If you buy and craft the Dalish Warrior Armor and run around in it, the front flap flies forth from time to time, revealing your androgynous lady-bits to the world. Imagine making the speech where your inquisitor is crowned and your lady-bits are peaking out, waving to the world. 

 

Best armor accident ever.

  I had a friend of mine in the ME forums caption a picture of his lady Inquisitor being announced while holding the sword with, "What do you mean it's not phallic?"  I'll need to pass that onto him.  

[AlanC9]

I'll be honest, Alan. I know very little of the technical side of things. I can't imagine it would be such a vast canyon between what we have now and for instance, Josephine's. I cannot imagine that they couldn't implement something more than all those buzz cuts and pattern baldness. Am I wrong? I very well could be, but --and no disrespect to them-- I have seen games made years ago with better hair styles than what is present in DAI.

Well, there are two ways to look at it. On the one hand, any model that can be animated in the engine could theoretically be built in an appropriately-designed character creator.

But on the other hand, the CC that Bio actually did make likely has nothing to do with the NPCs you mentioned. Typical procedure nowadays is to build the primary NPCs as one-off 3D models, often by scanning some actual person's head and expressions and then going on from there with artists using 3D software to modify the scanned data. (This is very obvious in the ME series since a lot of the models are known -- IIRC one even cosplays as her ME character.) The hair you're looking for likely never existed in a data format that would be meaningful to the CC system.

Could it have existed? At some resource level, sure. But what I'm trying to get at is that the two things aren't really related.

[In Exile]

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I want to emphasize how if Bioware was better at communicating with their fanbase (on the official forum), we wouldn’t have these hopes. And they are hopes, not expectations. Bioware is aware of the most requested features since launch. Among them are new hair and an alternative Skyhold outfit. Now, since they are aware, it is their job to communicate their intentions to us. It’s not difficult, here’s how it would look:

 

-Yes, we are working on this.

-No, we have no plans to add this.

-We are looking into it, but can’t guarantee anything.

 

And bam! Just like that, you’ve changed the whole situation. Now people won’t expect or hope for (usually reasonable) things to be added if you don’t plan on adding them. I also understand that the devs are busy with work on new DLCs and patches (and I appreciate that), but in no universe does that mean that between them, none have time to say one of the 3 statements above. More importantly, the devs themselves don’t need to directly. That’s the job of a community manager, which we don’t seem to have.

 

Here is my difficulty: why does silence mean "we're possibly doing something", instead of the (to me) more natural "we're doing absolutely nothing". I'm not saying you're wrong - and especially not saying you're wrong to feel how you do - but I just cannot wrap my mind around how saying nothing about a subject, doing absolutely nothing to advertise a feature, refusing to speak publicly about implementing it, and ignoring it in every patch and release translates into the possibility that the feature will ever be implemented.

 

Am I just really pessimistic? 

[In Exile]

TL;DR - I hate when people bash on the modding community because its not their job and they "only do what they want". If anything the lack of payment for their work, and the fact that they maintain personal lives, makes their accomplishments even more amazing. The devs have a huge headstart, yet aren't answering a lot of the easy fixes that are in high demand. I don't think its fair for them to say they are listening to their community when they only sort-of listen. maybe saying "we look at suggestions from the community" would be better wording.

 

I have to disagree with the general tone of admiration for the fact of modding. I mean, it's quite amazing what modders do on the technical side - that's absolutely praiseworthy. But modding, at the end of the day, is a hobby. If people take it really seriously and invest and sacrifice a great deal of their personal time, that's great for them, but I don't see why they'd deserve any particular notable praise or distinction for it. 

 

As to the difference between modders, well, the answer is easy: stability across multiple platforms. This was the main issue that came up when Steam tried to peddle paid mods for Skyrim without any support infrastructure. By far the biggest resource investment in games seems to be - aside from marketing and other fluff - in just making sure a multi-platform release is stable. 

[BansheeOwnage]

My guess is that the majority of the hair we got was already in the engine.  That would explain the sheer number of bald hairstyles, the default sideburns and the wonky eyebrows.  I'm not justifying it, however I think that's what happened.  I'm still shaking my head at a dozen beds, some of which are very detailed, windows that are easy to overlook,  taking priority over the CC options.  I know I'm not the only one that almost never goes into my bedroom at Skyhold outside of forced cutscenes.

It's a good point comparing the other customization options, since there are a surprising amount of them compared to the CC. And you could be partially right about the hair, but I struggle to picture the long-haired side-swept hair "preset 1" already being in the engine with sideburns, when quite a few don't have them. It looks more like they used a base shaved style under almost every cut (you can tell when you switch back and forth), but that still doesn't explain why they didn't just put on of the bald styles without sideburns under instead. Bah, I can't make sense of this   In other news, I'm trying to upload pictures of all the hairstyles for documentation purposes. Just so everyone knows, there are 28 options, and 13 of them are bald/shaved. That's not counting the short ones that look like Krem's hair.

[BansheeOwnage]

The thrones were one thing, but the beds?  A dozen beds for a room that has maybe 4-5 scenes total in it.  The thrones I can get, because of how often the player is usually in the main hall doing judgments or running around talking to party members.  Even the windows, decor and banners makes slightly more sense, since those are in areas that we actually spend time in.  It's silly, but I can at least look at it.  But about a dozen well detailed beds, windows, thrones, a ton of mounts (who asked for that many kinds of mounts, because I never saw the requests) > CC options.  Why?  

I totally agree, just want to point out that the "windows" in Skyhold are the stain-glass in your quarters. So... they're like the beds. Also, I'm pretty sure that in my playthrough I got a grand total of... TWO scenes in that room   Talking with Solas and Josephine.

 

Here is my difficulty: why does silence mean "we're possibly doing something", instead of the (to me) more natural "we're doing absolutely nothing". I'm not saying you're wrong - and especially not saying you're wrong to feel how you do - but I just cannot wrap my mind around how saying nothing about a subject, doing absolutely nothing to advertise a feature, refusing to speak publicly about implementing it, and ignoring it in every patch and release translates into the possibility that the feature will ever be implemented.

 

Am I just really pessimistic? 

Sometimes I wish I was that pessimistic But you're right, at the most basic level, saying nothing means exactly that. But it's human nature to get your hopes up, and I stand by my position that a little communication would go a long way. Also that I hoped for a lot more than I expected. It's true I should expect anything they haven't hinted at or announced.

[In Exile]

Sometimes I wish I was that pessimistic But you're right, at the most basic level, saying nothing means exactly that. But it's human nature to get your hopes up, and I stand by my position that a little communication would go a long way. Also that I hoped for a lot more than I expected. It's true I should expect anything they haven't hinted at or announced.

I think I'm bad at being a human, since I tend to get my hopes down if that makes any sense. For example, I was entirely skeptical of there ever being another in-game CC option like the BE notwithstanding that DA2 did it.