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Black Emporium: What took so long?


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#126
BansheeOwnage

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They didn't port them, recreated them. Varric looks really close to his DA2 model 

I'm no expert here, but that sounds odd. Did they just recreate the model of the Sulevin Blade because they didn't want to think of a new design for a sword? Serious question, not that you can answer it really. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I thought there was a limited amount of porting they could do.



#127
AresKeith

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I'm not doubting Bioware's capability to make these things compared to modders. Like you said, it's up to the higher-ups to decide what the modelling/programmers etc. work on. I'm questioning the decision-making of those higher-ups, not the skill of the team. And I know that modders have lots of free time to do it (in terms of total time to release something, not per day). But if a modder can create a working hair mesh in 1-3 weeks (while slacking, apparently), why couldn't a full team of developers make a few in 6 months?

 

You kinda answered your own question though about why, while they could work on it they'll be more busy working on DLC and patches

 

I'm no expert here, but that sounds odd. Did they just recreate the model of the Sulevin Blade because they didn't want to think of a new design for a sword? Serious question, not that you can answer it really. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I thought there was a limited amount of porting they could do.

 

Sometimes developers recuse designs because they like them, they also did make new designs to go with the old ones so it didn't really feel odd to me

 

Except Hayden's Razor that sword needs to burn in hellfire  :bandit:


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#128
BansheeOwnage

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You kinda answered your own question though about why, while they could work on it they'll be more busy working on DLC and patches

See my above response :P



#129
devSin

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They didn't port them, recreated them.

Nope. The models were imported.

That Varric's new model is similar to his old one doesn't mean anything here.

#130
duckley

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IMO, it isn't about DLC. It should have been higher quality to begin with. I really would love to meet the person who was in charge of the CC and hear their reasoning behind all those bushy eyebrows and buzzcuts--not to mention the incredible lack of hair and armors for qunari. I understand resources are limited and so is time, but this isn't their first rodeo and they should know the CC is something their fans really love and enjoy. It's one of the first things the fans beg to see. Please don't misunderstand, I really like DAI, but honestly, some of their design choices leaves me in wonder at how they thought we'd want nine decorative beds for a room that has no function, dozens of mounts that have different looks, but no functions and think that we'd applaud all the pattern baldness hairstyles and Captain Caveman eyebrows. I just don't get it.
 
There seems to be a trend forming anymore--and not just with Bioware--that games seem to be released unpolished at best and unfinished at worst. We're at patch seven and there are still issues. Last gen users must feel completely ignored and beyond angry. It just seems a sad state of things. The complete lack of communication doesn't help. 
 
A pessimistic friend of mine keeps saying that they released sub-standard armors, equipment and hairstyles so they can bombard us later with small dlc packs containing better products. I don't want to believe that, however, I am at the point now where I wish they would stop releasing DLC when the game lacks in quality. Fix what needs fixing in-game, then allocate funds and resources to dlc and MP.


I totally understand your curiosity around the choices made by the design team. I really think Bioware was trying to be too ambitious and tried to do too much, but yeah... the eyebrows, the awful hair styles... I dont get it. I too really enjoy the game.

#131
AresKeith

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Nope. The models were imported.

That Varric's new model is similar to his old one doesn't mean anything here.

 

I didn't say it does mean anything other than the fact that is possible to recreate models to look exactly like the old ones

 

Since I've heard from a few people that you can't import models to a completely different game engine



#132
devSin

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Since I've heard from a few people that you can't import models to a completely different game engine

Most likely that was a specific context (e.g., you couldn't pull the model files directly from your installation of DA2 and get them to work in DA3).

BioWare has the source models. They started out by importing all the DA2 assets into Frostbite.

#133
BansheeOwnage

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Most likely that was a specific context (e.g., you couldn't pull the model files directly from your installation of DA2 and get them to work in DA3).

BioWare has the source models. They started out by importing all the DA2 assets into Frostbite.

That's what I've heard also. They have the models and can put them into either engine. That's what you're saying, right?



#134
Namea

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All I want is a higher level version of the dang inquisition armour...that's all I want.

 

Though new hairstyles would have been nice.



#135
Silcron

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Edit: Strike this, Might be caused by a mod. I'm going to put the vanilla patch and recheck but damn, Thought I found something. :P

 

Edit Edit: Okay. So i tested it with a Vanilla save + Vanilla patch 7 that has never once touched a mod and it had the same result so unless my own game is screwed up somewhere I think its safe to post this.

 

So, on the Dalish Warrior Armour I noticed there's a neck seam. I didn't play much last night and was pretty tired, so I didn't notice it then. Its not very visible in the item creation lighting (although if I look at it a little funny I can see it), but in normal lighting it shows up.

 

Pale Freckled Complexion:

Spoiler

 

Non freckled Pale Complexion:

 

Spoiler

 

I brought one of my characters over to the Emporium and tested it with some skintones, and all of them had the same issue, with some variation of severity.

 

Provided that it is not just a glitch in my game, perhaps part of the reason Black Emporium was delayed is due to certain armors not co-operating with the Inquisitor's or party member's character models, and this one just kinda slipped under the radar?

 

I...I can't unsee it. D: In the second picture the elf's head is huge. It's like baby huge compared to the body. What are elf muscles made of? How is that neck supporting that head?

 

I'll be honest, the DA team is dissapointing me more and more. At this rate I may be done with the DA series altogether, I hope I can cool off by the time the next DA comes around, but right now I'd literally play any other Bioware game. I'm considering buying the old ones I never played like Jade Empire or the BGs rather than spending a cent in DAI dlc if it's all going to be like JoH.

 

Because as it stands even with the endings, the autodialogue and character assasination ME3 I'm still excited about MENext, and I just spend around 40 euros in SWToR buyin the expansion and 2 months of sub and it was worth it. The expansion was great and I haven't done the raids yet, and thanks to the 12x xp boost in class missions for subs I'm finally getting around doing the stories of some classes.

 

As for the OP, yeah, you're hopes for the dlc are the kind of reasonable things that'd make it good, but it seems good is too high a quality for this game. It's not bad, but sufficient is the word that defines it for me. And this is coming from the guy that owns 7 ME games, 4 DA games, SWToR, 2 KotOR and all the dlc except JoH, of which there are 3 Collector editions. So I'd say that quality being my reason for not buying Bioware dlc is a bit outstanding in my case, since I even bought dlc for their mobile games (ME:Infiltrator had an expansion.)



#136
AbsolutGrndZer0

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That's one of the things I've been requesting as an alternative to just beige.  I can understand if the animators are extremely picky about the lighting and don't want to go back through to make sure the lighting is perfect for the armor.  They also might not want to futz with another tinting table.


 

 

That would require them to fix the lighting issues they currently have first. I don't know what it is but the lighting in Haven (outside during the day, remember you don't wear the 'Skyhold" pajamas until you reach Skyhold) is really weird. Like if I am wearing black, then in Haven my armor is a light brown color.  It's really strange.



#137
AbsolutGrndZer0

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This is a completely different situation. This is a game-breaking bug that Bethesda were irresponsible and incorrect for not addressing, and they should be held accountable.

 

Right, which is my point.  EA and Bethesda both have issues where modders are able to fix bugs that they refuse to even acknowledge.  There are bugs in DAO that when I bought my friend a copy of the Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition I told him exactly what mods to download to fix the bugs Bioware didn't care about, like the bugs with Morrigan breaking up with you when she leaves the party at the end of the game.  Without the mod or knowing the "workaround' (That you have to prepare for ahead of time, before you fight the archdemon, then complete in the epilogue save) you absolutely cannot see the proper Morrigan romance slides at the end of either DAO or DAA.

 

Now, recently it seems that Bioware HAS gotten better with fixing game-breaking bugs than they used to be... Let's hope they continue to do so.



#138
In Exile

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That's what I've heard also. They have the models and can put them into either engine. That's what you're saying, right?


I imagine the real answer is that whatever tools they use to create the items appearance are transferable so all they really need to do is touch up the textures and fins ways to take advantage of the greater graphic prowess of FB3.

#139
devSin

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Just to note, they touched upon the process of reusing the old models in their ZBrush interview recently.

#140
Sartoz

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I'm almost 100% positive the reason why BW wouldn't want to implement an armor toggle for Skyhold is because of cutscenes. I've used the Cheat Engine to toggle my armor on, and even with pretty low-profile mage hoodies there's some clipping and weirdness with the camera. Modders are free to flip that switch because they don't have to worry about the game's integrity past giving players the short-term fix they want. BW doesn't have that luxury.

 

And, really, that's what most of your complaints come down to. Modders can do the things they do because they don't have to worry about anything beyond the specific thing they're doing. BW doesn't have that luxury. They have to pay attention to everything, and even when they are trying the complicated nature of the engine means that stuff still gets screwed up (and more people get angry). And this is on top of working on whatever comes next. 

 

                                                                                <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

You know, that cut-scene argument makes sense.  



#141
BansheeOwnage

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I...I can't unsee it. D: In the second picture the elf's head is huge. It's like baby huge compared to the body. What are elf muscles made of? How is that neck supporting that head?

Actually, the elf's head isn't huge. Whenever you take a screenshot (or look around without taking one) out of a cutscene, the camera skews your perspective heavily, often making things appear larger compared to others. If the camera was positioned slightly lower, you likely wouldn't notice.

 

I imagine the real answer is that whatever tools they use to create the items appearance are transferable so all they really need to do is touch up the textures and fins ways to take advantage of the greater graphic prowess of FB3.

That's exactly what I was thinking, thanks.