516 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

That's my point, people complained in DAI that Hawke wasn't theirs anymore, and in truth, he wasn't.  All we were allowed to do was customize his look.  After that, BW did whatever they wanted to do with his character.  The same can be said for being allowed to customize the companions.  All the player would do is change their looks, the character still belongs to BW to do as they please concerning their personality, dialogue and everything else.  If IB was customized to look like the Arishok, he would still be the same character with the same background, personality, and issues. He'll just look better.

 

Well personally I don't think it works that well and would be hard to implement. The whole idea feels weird for me too, design your own boyfriend and your friends so they just look like you want. I don't know why someone would want that from game.

[Terodil]

Yeah, shocking, I know. It's even worse in the literature biz. Imagine those creepy authors sitting in their badly lit basements, 'designing' their protagonist's friends and LIs. Very weird. I don't know why anybody would want to do that.

 

[Hazegurl]

Well personally I don't think it works that well and would be hard to implement. The whole idea feels weird for me too, design your own boyfriend and your friends so they just look like you want. I don't know why someone would want that from game.

Was it that difficult to run Hawke through the CC? All I did was remove his facial hair, fugly hair style, gave him some stubble, and changed his eye color.  And yes, if Hawke was a full companion, I would have romanced him, cause man was he hot in DAI. Or at least I made him hot.

 

Oh yeah, I ship it.

[slimgrin]

What in the actual **** is this? Bioware has been writing, or trying to write strong female leads since the very beginning. You think they need to be reminded?

[TaHol]

Oh my Hawke-feels!

 

I loved Hawke so much, but really how much came clear after trying to like Inquisitor even a little bit. News: I don't like Inquisitor AT ALL. He can go to hell for all I care  with his dish cloth-personality (and elf-Inky can take his broken arms with him).

 

I want my Hawke back!

[AlanC9]

Do some people exist to just follow not-Brevnau around and post snarky gifs/insults? As annoying as he is, these other posters are catching up to him in this regard.

Isn't that what he wants, though? I always figured the whole point of posting flamebait was to get flames.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, shocking, I know. It's even worse in the literature biz. Imagine those creepy authors sitting in their badly lit basements, 'designing' their protagonist's friends and LIs. Very weird. I don't know why anybody would want to do that.
 

Isn't designing your own characters in your own story a different activity from redesigning someone else's?

[Panda]

Was it that difficult to run Hawke through the CC? All I did was remove his facial hair, fugly hair style, gave him some stubble, and changed his eye color.  And yes, if Hawke was a full companion, I would have romanced him, cause man was he hot in DAI. Or at least I made him hot.

 

Oh yeah, I ship it.

 

No, though it would be hard work to do that for all characters since I did use sometime and face references of my DA2 Hawke. What I didn't like is that Bioware didn't keep his peaceful personality and didn't take accord that he's blood mage himself.

[Panda]

Yeah, shocking, I know. It's even worse in the literature biz. Imagine those creepy authors sitting in their badly lit basements, 'designing' their protagonist's friends and LIs. Very weird. I don't know why anybody would want to do that.

 

 

Yes yes you don't care for my opinion on the matter, already said so

[Shadow Fox]

Yeah, shocking, I know. It's even worse in the literature biz. Imagine those creepy authors sitting in their badly lit basements, 'designing' their protagonist's friends and LIs. Very weird. I don't know why anybody would want to do that.

 

You're confusing world building with authors writing creepy masturbatory wish fulfillment fantasy*which is what Panda seems concerned about and is a criticism that actually has been unfairly or not leveled at several authors*

 

Plus the idea of redesigning a companion's looks sorely so they're more attractive to the player is a tad creepy.

[Terodil]

Isn't designing your own characters in your own story a different activity from redesigning someone else's?

Only by degree. Video games are clearly more visual than books, for example, but even then there is a lot of room for the imagination.

I'm sure we've all been surprised at how different a person would look in reality who we'd only pictured in our minds according to their voices heard on the phone. In a game we already have a (default) model, but I don't think it 'creepy' or 'weird' at all to want to give preference to the picture formed in your mind rather than to the vision the game designers had. One is not more 'normal' than the other, both pictures are born of the specific subjective context of their respective owners. By playing the game, we are kinda making it our own, with a strong input by the makers, but all our emotions, fantasies etc. connecting with the story go far beyond what the game designers could produce. It's a synthesis, something new, so using the opportunity to choose between different character models is not something out-of-the-world.

It's actually creative, maybe a slightly higher degree of fantasy and creativity than usual, but definitely not 'creepy'.

(I still think Legolas should not have had blonde hair in the movies because my mental image of him was dark-haired. Very creepy.)

[Terodil]

You're confusing world building with authors writing creepy masturbatory wish fulfillment fantasy*which is what Panda seems concerned about and is a criticism that actually has been unfairly or not leveled at several authors*

Sorry... what?

[Shadow Fox]

Sorry... what?

Twilight*according to Edward's actor anyway* or any badly written porn fanfiction.

 

The Witcher has also been accused of this on occasion.

[XMissWooX]

I'm not sure customising companion's appearances would be a good idea. It seems like it would invalidate the whole "we design our characters to match their personalities" tactic Bioware worked so hard on in DAI (see https://themillionth...dra-pentaghast/).

Cassandra has a practical, no-nonsense look which matches her personality, Sera has a fun, mis-matched look which matches her personality, Dorian has a stylish, flashy look which matches his personality, etc.

Being able to alter companion's outfits to a degree was cool, but I don't see how you could give complete customisation to them without losing that unique tailored design.

[SnakeCode]

Twilight*according to Edward's actor anyway* or any badly written porn fanfiction.

 

The Witcher has also been accused of this on occasion.

 

By whom? Oversensitive Tumblrinas? Or people with a shred of credibility?

[Shadow Fox]

By whom? Oversensitive Tumblrinas? Or people with a shred of credibility?

More then a few people have expressed concerns over how women are treated in the franchise.

 

The games certainly didn't help this.

[Terodil]

How did you get from the wish to choose among several BW-created options for BW-created characters to "badly-written porn fanfiction"?

[Panda]

I'm not sure customising companion's appearances would be a good idea. It seems like it would invalidate the whole "we design our characters to match their personalities" tactic Bioware worked so hard on in DAI (see https://themillionth...dra-pentaghast/).

Cassandra has a practical, no-nonsense look which matches her personality, Sera has a fun, mis-matched look which matches her personality, Dorian has a stylish, flashy look which matches his personality, etc.

Being able to alter companion's outfits to a degree was cool, but I don't see how you could give complete customisation to them without losing that unique tailored design.

 

Yep I like DAI's approach most. It's kinda between DAO and DA2, nice compromise that makes characters always have unique style that fits their personality and origin and makes whole character design whole.

[Shadow Fox]

How did you get from the wish to choose among several BW-created options for BW-created characters to "badly-written porn fanfiction"?

Because several people yourself included were talking about redesigning characters to be more aesthetically pleasing to you which some posters found a tad creepy because it comes off as designing your own lover,"fixing" "flawed" characters instead of accepting them or robbing characters of individuality and uniqueness by reducing them to window dressing to perv over.

 

Which you then likened to authors creating their own characters.*which ignoring how that's different from modifying existing characters to suit one's preference can go wrong if one takes Author Appeal too far*

 

Bad fanfic is just where it's most commonly found with pornfics being the most outright disturbing.

[Terodil]

Because several people yourself included were talking about redesigning characters to be more aesthetically pleasing to you which some posters found a tad creepy because it comes off as designing your own lover,"fixing" "flawed" characters instead of accepting them or robbing characters of individuality and uniqueness by reducing them to window dressing to perv over.

This is absurd and highly insulting.

Firstly, it's not *my* lover, it's the LI of my player character, who, in my case, usually behaves vastly differently from myself and doesn't even share my gender. Abstraction is relevant here.

Secondly, we are not talking about real people here, we are talking about a fantasy persona which is already a product of fiction. Fiction that is structurally no different from another fiction. "Accepting a person" / "respecting their individuality" has absolutely no relevance here and tries to introduce a moral dimension that is simply unfair.

Thirdly, did I read that right? Despite you using the indirect voice, you are implying that I personally engage in "perving over" NPCs? That's worth a report. Enough is enough.

[BioWareMod02]

Hello everyone. Let's try to stay civil and avoid personal disagreements. Thank you.

[Octarin]

More then a few people have expressed concerns over how women are treated in the franchise.

 

The games certainly didn't help this.

 

Despite the fact that the games follow the books in how women are treated. I didn't mind at all personally. I collected all sex cards, I really wish there was an achievement to show for it, but oh well. [speaking as a woman]

[AlanC9]

I'm sure we've all been surprised at how different a person would look in reality who we'd only pictured in our minds according to their voices heard on the phone. In a game we already have a (default) model, but I don't think it 'creepy' or 'weird' at all to want to give preference to the picture formed in your mind rather than to the vision the game designers had.

I'm not sure what picturing an image in your mind before seeing the character has to do with the topic. The only prominent character I can think of whom we meet on the phone before seeing the model would be Admiral Hackett from ME, and I'm not aware of any effort to redesign him.
 

One is not more 'normal' than the other, both pictures are born of the specific subjective context of their respective owners. By playing the game, we are kinda making it our own, with a strong input by the makers, but all our emotions, fantasies etc. connecting with the story go far beyond what the game designers could produce. It's a synthesis, something new, so using the opportunity to choose between different character models is not something out-of-the-world.

It certainly is out-of-the-world -- unless your PC has access to polymorphing magic, you're not playing your PC when you're doing this. I take it you meant something else with that metaphor?

[AlanC9]

I understand that. Right now I'm sticking post-its on my screen when Cassandra appears (this statement contains 80% joke). In any case, yes, you are right when it comes to defined characters. We are at an impasse there because you love Cassandra's look and I don't, and I want something else and you don't. So you win atm thanks to the developers' support, I hope to win next time. (Though tbh even if they did turn Cassie into a supermodel, her character would still ruin it for me, so it doesn't really matter all that much...)

I fished this post up because it's relevant to a couple of key points here. Cassie's look was designed to reflect her personality, which you don't like. (See XMissWooX's link a few posts up.) Do you think you would like any look for her that really did reflect the personality you don't like?

And of course, the whole problem with options for companion looks is that Bio sees the characters as integrated wholes -- the look is simply one facet of the character. Fighting the design intent never works.

[Terodil]

I'm not sure what picturing an image in your mind before seeing the character has to do with the topic. The only prominent character I can think of whom we meet on the phone before seeing the model would be Admiral Hackett from ME, and I'm not aware of any effort to redesign him.

It served to show that our fantasy can picture people (or NPCs) based on certain attributes, in this case, the voice. Other examples could include simply the name, for example. It's what psychologists call the 'halo effect'. If you had particularly good (or bad) experiences with a 'Matt', every mention of the name Matt is going to first evoke associations with just that Matt from the past, even if they are soon replaced with the 'current' Matt. This is just to illustrate the mechanism. Fantasy is far more potent than simply recreating copies of people you have met in the past; it can also merge memories, add to, or subtract from, them.

So, if I found that the behaviour, voice, name, ... of an NPC evoked certain pictures in my mind -- which they almost always do, whether you're aware of it or not --, I might find these pictures more appropriate to the NPC's character than the design the game developer opted for; both are fiction, both are based on individual context (since the same process happened with the developers), and none is any more valid, strictly speaking, than the other. The only difference is that the developer actually got to put his/her image of the character into the game and I didn't (unless I use a mod).

That's why I like the way BW handled it in SWTOR: via the customisations, you can choose to bring the looks of the NPC closer to what *you* imagine them to look like, and you're not restricted to the one character concept that won out on BW's roundtable. This freedom of choice gives the player's fantasy longer reins, which, imo, is good.
 

I fished this post up because it's relevant to a couple of key points here. Cassie's look was designed to reflect her personality, which you don't like. (See XMissWooX's link a few posts up.) Do you think you would like any look for her that really did reflect the personality you don't like?

I feel I need to split the question a little.

Does her current look reflect her personality? I actually do think it does. Funnily enough, this may already be the halo-effect at work; if I had to picture a bigoted, tough, gung-ho female warrior, chances are that a variation of Cassie's look would pop unbidden into my mind.

Could another look make me forget her character? I doubt it. That would require a rather superficial outlook on things.

Could I like a look despite her character? Quite probably, as long as it was just about liking the look, not the NPC (see above). I don't know if that look would still reflect her personality. *shrugs*
 

And of course, the whole problem with options for companion looks is that Bio sees the characters as integrated wholes -- the look is simply one facet of the character. Fighting the design intent never works.

If the character was directly mirrored in the looks of a person, we wouldn't need a judicial system, for starters. Character and looks are not as closely connected as you make it seem. Hair colour, for example, is hardly linked with any character trait. Neither is the shape of the nose. The only few things remotely linked are those that the character can actually influence, such as make-up or the lack thereof.