65 réponses à ce sujet

[dawnstone]

Finn and Arianne are two of my faves and I'm glad that there's a piece in WoT2 about them. They're so adorable.

 

I'd also like to see Sigrun again, she's my favorite little tornado of death.

[Gago]

I would like to see some characters again from previous games and from comics who have never been introduced in the games like Rasaan, Yavana (she has big potential, hopefully she's alive), Valya and etc but only if they have a reason for it, not for a pointless cameo. If they fit in the given setting then by all means-go ahead, otherwise no.

[Arisugawa]

What's wrong with the Architect? What reason could there possibly be for such disgust?

I found him a pretty curious specimen, if anything. An intelligent darkspawn, omg! He's for Awakening what Cole is for DA:I: someone who is an anomaly among his own kind and with an intention to help humans. Albeit not exactly reliable, which makes it even more interesting.

 

I seriously liked him a lot and hope we will hear about his endeavours once more. Unfortunately, he can't possibly stop the Blight now that some players could choose to kill him in the game.

 

Because The Architect is attempt to humanize an inherently inhuman enemy, similar to putting Legion into Mass Effect 2. In Legion's case, it represented a complex society that had established rules and norms that were merely unknown. In the case of the darkspawn, no such society exists. The Architect is anomaly for no other sake than the story demands that an anomaly exists. It's also an anomaly that is frightfully educated for some bizarre and unexplained reason considering its darkspawn origins, and most importantly, understands the context of its existence. Things do not happen this way. The Architect, and what it represents, is unnecessary. The Blight works as a monolithic, unstoppable and unrelenting enemy precisely because it is largely faceless and monstrous.

 

If we are to accept the lore that a darkspawn is a soulless vessel, suddenly having an intelligent one with drives and motivations beyond reproduction, destruction, and the inevitable contact with the Old Gods is a terrible contradiction. With the exception of the original Magisters (and yes I know there is a lot of conjecture that the Architect is in fact one of them), this sort of thing should not be possible.

 

Additionally, this also does not solve the problem that having an intelligent darkspawn does nothing to stop the Blight. Even severed from the Calling, they are still Blighted creatures and thus are subject to the drawbacks that being a Blighted creature entails. The land is sickened by their presence. Animals and plants become corrupt, or die outright.

 

The only known means of darkspawn reproduction involves kidnapping the females of various races, corrupting them with the Blight, and then feeding them the flesh of their species until they become Broodmothers. For the darkspawn to continue as a race, they will have to continue attacking the surface or the Deep Roads to reproduce, and thus peace cannot exist between the unBlighted and Blighted as a result no matter what promises the Architect makes.

 

What possible society will the darkspawn have, even if freed from the Calling? Where are they going to go? What will they do? They have nothing save the stolen life they take from the races forced to become Broodmothers, no purpose beyond finding the Old Gods and then consuming everything their path.

 

The whole bit about using Grey Warden blood in some kind of Joining to sever the darkspawn from the Calling also does not make sense, in my opinion. It is one of those things that we have to accept because it is in the lore, but from the standpoint of how the ritual works, having a Blighted creature consume the blood of a partially Blighted creature (who themselves also hear the Calling) shouldn't sever that connection.

 

ALL of the darkspawn narrative in Awakening felt both unnecessary and revisionist to me.

 

And since you brought it up: I hate Cole as well. He is my least favorite companion in Inquisition, and I only interact with him out of obligation, not because I find him interesting or likeable. I do not like anomalies that exist for the sake of having an anomaly. If I could remove him from the lore, I would do so without question.

[Andromelek]

That indeed makes him a crap of person, but not really worse than meredith, as long you dont ****** him off and you are not a mage, alistair is a nice guy, the worse he did in fact was betray yavana in that way, but you have two ways to kill him and prevent this from happening, furthermore, steve valentine said something about no more alistair on his twitter, so i suppose that Gaider is about to kill permanently king alistair whos the most shitty of all alistairs versions.

Hopefully Gaider will wipe out the little bastard before leaving DA, four ways to kill him, and the cool one had to be non-canon, still, poor Yavana, she would still being unable to fulfil her task, and with Titus and Claudio around, I still fearing for her.

[vertigomez]

Kardol. That guy was cool. If you were a dwarf, you didn't even have to Coerce him into helping!

[Andromelek]

What's wrong with the Architect? What reason could there possibly be for such disgust?
I found him a pretty curious specimen, if anything. An intelligent darkspawn, omg! He's for Awakening what Cole is for DA:I: someone who is an anomaly among his own kind and with an intention to help humans. Albeit not exactly reliable, which makes it even more interesting.
 
I seriously liked him a lot and hope we will hear about his endeavours once more. Unfortunately, he can't possibly stop the Blight now that some players could choose to kill him in the game.
 
On that note, it's a flaw in C&C system that is responsible for sad disappearances of characters. If a character is introduced and you can make a choice about him, not necessarily to murder him, in some cases it would be impossible to make him\her reappear in any fashion that would have an impact on the world.

Don't worry for the Architect, Gaider said that just like Corypheus, he's an ancient magister, and unlike Corypheus he didn't ruined his survival skill by binding a dragon, so, he could survived through Utha's corpse or through Serrani

[Andromelek]

Just because they are my favorites, I will let some photos of the Architect and Yavana.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Also, who didn't missed this guys in Haven?

 

Kolgrim

Voiced by: Douglas Weston

Spoiler

The Guardian

Voiced by: Lloyd Sherr

Spoiler

 

[MadMadCarl]

Hopefully Gaider will wipe out the little bastard before leaving DA, four ways to kill him, and the cool one had to be non-canon, still, poor Yavana, she would still being unable to fulfil her task, and with Titus and Claudio around, I still fearing for her.

I'm confident that she will be fine as long as you get alistair dead first, claudio is not really a match for her, without alistair as human shield, she or her dragon could crush them without fear any collateral damage, while aurelian had to deal with the qunari first, on inquisition there is no mention of an unusually powerful magister killing qunari, so, either the qunari or another magister such like mae killed him first.

[vertigomez]

Just because they are my favorites, I will let some photos of the Architect and Yavana.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Also, who didn't missed this guys in Haven?
 
Kolgrim
Voiced by: Douglas Weston

Spoiler

[/size]

[/size]
The Guardian
Voiced by: Lloyd Sherr

Spoiler

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Oh man, Kolgrim was deliciously hammy. I loved that guy almost as much as I loved tricking him and killing his dragon.

[Dai Grepher]

Eleni Zinovia. She was cursed as a statue and left in Kinloch Hold's repository while the mages rebelled. Wonder if any of the mages did anything with her or just left her there. 

[VelvetV]

Because The Architect is attempt to humanize an inherently inhuman enemy, similar to putting Legion into Mass Effect 2. In Legion's case, it represented a complex society that had established rules and norms that were merely unknown. In the case of the darkspawn, no such society exists. The Architect is anomaly for no other sake than the story demands that an anomaly exists. It's also an anomaly that is frightfully educated for some bizarre and unexplained reason considering its darkspawn origins, and most importantly, understands the context of its existence. Things do not happen this way. 

 

I see how you would find it absurd. Yeah sometimes it happens that something is too absurd to believe and that repels us in the game. Although for myself I've found an explanation: I decided outright that Architect is not a soulless darkspawn, but one of those human mages who entered the Black City, so he's an ex-human turned into an intelligent darkspawn. I don't remember why I decided so or if there were any hints for this version. Maybe just my headcanon. But when I saw Corypheus in DA:I, the first thing that came to my mind was: "Is that you, Archi?!"

 

It's interesting that Andromalek confirms that Architect is an ancient magister, just like Corypheus. I never heard that Gaider's interview, but it makes sense that he would say that as a belated (?) explanation. Does it make things a little bit better for you, or do you find that it's absurd anyway?

 

Additionally, this also does not solve the problem that having an intelligent darkspawn does nothing to stop the Blight. Even severed from the Calling, they are still Blighted creatures and thus are subject to the drawbacks that being a Blighted creature entails. The land is sickened by their presence. Animals and plants become corrupt, or die outright.

 

I'm afraid my memory is hazy on this. I remember Architect had a plan how to destroy the dragons without corrupting them. I would deduce that once all dragons are gone, there would be no Calling. What would happen to the darkspawn? If they're soulless vessels, they'd probably drop "dead", as without Calling they have no reason and no purpose to exist or do anything. I would think that destruction of Calling destroys the darkspawn. But that's just a theory. And Architect would probably survive in that case, he isn't soulless, and still be corrupt.

 

 

It is one of those things that we have to accept because it is in the lore, but from the standpoint of how the ritual works, having a Blighted creature consume the blood of a partially Blighted creature (who themselves also hear the Calling) shouldn't sever that connection.

 

 

 

Yep that's weird.

 

And since you brought it up: I hate Cole as well. He is my least favorite companion in Inquisition, and I only interact with him out of obligation, not because I find him interesting or likeable. I do not like anomalies that exist for the sake of having an anomaly. If I could remove him from the lore, I would do so without question.

 

Hmm, I didn't consider him much of an anomaly until the choice to make him human appeared. I chose it to see what happens and reloaded after watching the Val Royeux cafe cutscene, because the sudden change seemed absurd to me. So I understand your feelings, at least partially.

 

In other regards, he seems ok. Maybe in Thedas demons can't look human, but it doesn't exactly rub me that wrong way that they would. And in the book Asunder noone found it surprising that a demon could pretend to look human, so the issue must be with inconsistent lore. But yeah, it does sound absurd that a demon can actually turn into a human, not merely proceed looking like that.

[Andromelek]

Oh holy crap! I wanted to put the link of Gaider's interview and then I realized that the wiki just has been updated, the World of Thedas vol 2 not only states that the Architect is a Magister, but that he is in fact Urthemiel's High Priest.

[VelvetV]

Oh holy crap! I wanted to put the link of Gaider's interview and then I realized that the wiki just has been updated, the World of Thedas vol 2 not only states that the Architect is a Magister, but that he is in fact Urthemiel's High Priest.

What is World of Thedas vol 2? Can I read it online?

[Andromelek]

What is World of Thedas vol 2? Can I read it online?

World of Thedas is a kind of illustrated encyclopedia published by Dark Horse where Bioware reveals some info as Codex entries, the Architect is mentioned in the Chant of Light, and it states that as God of Beauty's High Priest, he is responsible for Tevinter's architecture.

Sadly it doesn't reveal anything about Yavana besides rumors of the Witches of the Wilds, where it says that there are Witches living on Antiva (Yavana), Nevarra and Orlais.

I don't know if it's already available to download on Dark Horse's website, the last time it only gave me the option to purchase it in physic format.

[Caddius]

 

As the Architect was present in The Calling, published before Origins was released if I recall correctly, it's hardly revisionist. (Well. Okay. His appearance was definitely revised. ) I think he was fascinating, story-wise. While he is trying to prevent violence between darkspawn and surfacers, it's self-admittedly impossible for them to co-exist in the current state. Like Legion, he reveals that there's more to the story than we know. Unlike Legion, what he reveals is quite nasty. The darkspawn are much more bestial, less sympathetic, and only have the Architect to speak on their behalf. As much as I love the character of the Architect, he's ruthless, and halla creepy, and the salvation of the darkspawn comes at the cost of everyone else, as the darkspawn are, as you said, dependent on doing horrible things to the other races to reproduce. The Wardens that sided with him because Blights are just that horrible made a bad choice, but it's an interesting one.

 He goes from trying to taint surfacers so that they'll become darkspawn and prevent the conflict in The Calling to trying to kill off the Old Gods before they can be tainted. Ironically, he taints his own god in the process and causes the Fifth Blight. And the Architect confirmed to be 'very much the same type of creature as Corypheus, yes' in an interview with Gaider a few months ago. Further confirmed by 'The Architect of Beauty' being Urthemiel's high priest in World of Thedas II​. So it's not that the darkspawn just randomly popped out an anomaly, it's that he's one of the boogeymen of Chantry myth and one of the creepy hooded bastards in the opening video of Origins as Duncan explains the Black City story.

He's not an anomaly for the sake of being an anomaly, he's an integral part of the lore. And even if he was, so what? A recurring theme in Dragon Age is how little the people understand the world around them. Cole's role is to provide a much more intimate perspective on spirits than Justice ever provided, as well as to give glimpses into the other companions' pasts.

You're completely right about the darkspawn not having much of a purpose beyond Blights, Calling, and breeding so that they can Blight and dig more effectively. That's the point.   The Architect's plans to free them led to the insanity and civil war seen in Awakening. We see the Architect, who isn't a 'true' darkspawn, and the Messenger as being remotely sane. He's doomed to fail, and I'm doomed to stand against his plans, but by golly if it isn't interesting. For me, at least.

 

My favorite part about the Architect is how he's so bizarre about trying to understand surfacers and their ways. Almost all of his human affectations are awkward and fall well within the Uncanny Valley. The Blight remains a faceless force, and the Architect is one of its creepiest offshoots/progenitors.

Curiously, Corypheus acts much more like the Tevinter magisters we do know: haughty, racist, powerful, and inclined to throw tantrums when denied victory. While a major dick, he doesn't have the same disconnect that the Architect does. This could be because of a simple difference in personality, (Corypheus was noted to have once been a stern but loving family man and priest.) or because the Architect is still in the 'walking sleep' phase that Corypheus was in when the Wardens nabbed him after the First Blight.

 

I double the love for Kolgrim and the Guardian.

[Silcron]

You just had to mention Yavanna, hadn't you? Why? Why did she have to die so soon? Why couldn't she have tagged along and be killed at the end of the story? I didn't mind her dying but it was too soon. Too soon! We had just met her! T_T

Plus with the character development Alistair gets there it could have ended with something like:

*Yavanna reminding Alistair that he gave his word to help her and that as a king, he is bound by his word*

"Well Yavanna...*puts hand on her sholder*...Kings lie." *stab*

(btw if you don't know the character development Alistair gets is about coming to terms with being a king, and what that entails. He kills Yavanna because he doesn't trust she and her dragons won't be a threat to fereldans or other people and that is more important to him than his word.)

[The Closet Geek]

I have to echo the calls for more of the Awakening characters.  To hear that the Fereldan Wardens all disappeared worried me greatly.  What happened to Nathaniel?  To Sigrun?  To Oghren?  Please don't tell me they ended up at Adamant, or as blood sacrifices for that crazy Warden ritual.  I know a lot of folks bitched about Oghren getting into Awakenings but I was actually quite fond of him, for all his flaws.

 

And Shale!  Good god, there can never be enough Shale.

[VelvetV]

The Wardens that sided with him because Blights are just that horrible made a bad choice, but it's an interesting one.

 

Why do you think it was a bad choice?

 

My party did side with him. I considered it a preferable choice to allow someone to try and destroy the dragons before they're tainted, so that no Blights would occur anymore, it's better than sitting around and waiting. And if he does mess up and cause a new Blight, well, we expected a new Blight sooner or later, right? There's no point to lay it aside, it's not like meanwhile some new method to fight it would be created, so it benefits noone to wait longer. Yet I can see the benefit in a possibility, however remote, that all Blights would be over.

 

That said, I don't understand why anyone would be mad at Grey Wardens for using blood magic in DA:I, either. Such a prejudice. They genuinely thought that Grey Wardens were all dying, so it made sense for them to try and do something extreme, no matter the means to do it. And it's not like they were killing anyone else but themselves. Although In DA:I there is a plothole: instead of doing extreme stuff they should've at least tried to train new Grey Wardens to replace them. If they would and found them to be falling to Calling outright, they should've realized that something was wrong about it.

[Caddius]

I have to echo the calls for more of the Awakening characters.  To hear that the Fereldan Wardens all disappeared worried me greatly.  What happened to Nathaniel?  To Sigrun?  To Oghren?  Please don't tell me they ended up at Adamant, or as blood sacrifices for that crazy Warden ritual.  I know a lot of folks bitched about Oghren getting into Awakenings but I was actually quite fond of him, for all his flaws.

 

And Shale!  Good god, there can never be enough Shale.

I like to think that if they were at Adamant, there would have been a very weary Cullen listening to his lieutenants wild-eyed reports about a lunatic ginger, a snarky dwarf that somehow backstabs people with axes, and a disgruntled archer that managed to hold off the Inquisition's elite before riding off into the sunset on flying nugalopes to join the Warden to the west.

I don't see any other way it could have gone down.

[Caddius]

Why do you think it was a bad choice?

 

My party did side with him. I considered it a preferable choice to allow someone to try and destroy the dragons before they're tainted, so that no Blights would occur anymore, it's better than sitting around and waiting. And if he does mess up and cause a new Blight, well, we expected a new Blight sooner or later, right? There's no point to lay it aside, it's not like meanwhile some new method to fight it would be created, so it benefits noone to wait longer. Yet I can see the benefit in a possibility, however remote, that all Blights would be over.

 

That said, I don't understand why anyone would be mad at Grey Wardens for using blood magic in DA:I, either. Such a prejudice. They genuinely thought that Grey Wardens were all dying, so it made sense for them to try and do something extreme, no matter the means to do it. And it's not like they were killing anyone else but themselves. Although In DA:I there is a plothole: instead of doing extreme stuff they should've at least tried to train new Grey Wardens to replace them. If they would and found them to be falling to Calling outright, they should've realized that something was wrong about it.

Oh, sorry. I meant the Wardens in The Calling. The plan to turn everyone that could possibly become a Grey Warden into a darkspawn, and let the vast majority of the population die of the Taint. I'm not real fond of that plan. Awakening's decision is a different beast entirely.

I've only sided against the Architect once in Awakening, in my last playthrough before Inquisition. I didn't much like it. The tenuous alliance between him and the Wardens has potential, as does using him to get to the Old Gods and having the Wardens slay them. This brings up the question of whether it's possible to kill an untainted Old God, or if the Architect's mere presence would be enough to taint it and then have them slay it. We still don't know what was going on with the Wardens and their ally in Dragon Age II, do we?

I have a theory that each of the Seven is responsible for tainting their own god. Corypheus was the one to find Dumat because, as High Priest, they would know the location.

I'm curious if the Wardens ever asked Weisshaupt what was going on, and what the First Warden's response was.

...Hey.

On a random side note, I just realized something rather simple. I've been wondering whether the Old God in the Western Approach had been awakened before, or if it was still down there. Well, in addition to secrecy for their demon army, the Wardens would be well-off to gather at the closest fortress to the closest remaining Old God.

[Arisugawa]

World of Thedas is a kind of illustrated encyclopedia published by Dark Horse where Bioware reveals some info as Codex entries, the Architect is mentioned in the Chant of Light, and it states that as God of Beauty's High Priest, he is responsible for Tevinter's architecture.
 

 

"The High Priest of Beauty, Architect of the Works of Beauty, designed
Every work and wonder of the Imperium according to the plans of his god.
To him, the Conductor went in secret, armed with the whisper of Silence."

 

I an unconvinced that a line in the Chant of Light that references the words Architect and Imperium is evidence that the Architect is the one of the original Magisters.

 

The Chant of Light does not appear until around -130 Ancient, and the Magisters ventured into the Fade somewhere around -395 Ancient.

 

That's almost 275 years from the time of the events until Andraste's disciplines wrote up the chant. They wouldn't be reliable narrators or historians for that matter.

 

Nor do I think the Architect would actually refer to himself by a name to given to him in the Chant of Light.

[Caddius]

"The High Priest of Beauty, Architect of the Works of Beauty, designed
Every work and wonder of the Imperium according to the plans of his god.
To him, the Conductor went in secret, armed
With the whisper of Silence."

 

I an unconvinced that a line in the Chant of Light that references the words Architect and Tevinter is evidence that the Architect is the one of the original Magisters.

 

The Chant of Light does not appear until around -130 Ancient, and the Magisters ventured into the Fade somewhere around -395 Ancient.

 

That's almost 275 years from the time of the events until Andraste's disciplines wrote up the chant. They wouldn't be reliable narrators or historians for that matter.

 

Nor do I think the Architect would actually refer to himself by a name to given to him in the Chant of Light.

Conductor means Corypheus, being adapted from a Greek word I believe. Corypheus is the leader of the Seven Magisters, Corypheus shows up and convinces the Architect to join him on a grand project. They are similar in appearance and powers, with both exhibiting amnesia and confusion to some extent. David Gaider has made comments that Corypheus and the Architect are the same kind of being. They are both rather specific kind of beings.

The title would not have been given to him by the Chant of Light. One of seven High Priests at the time for a continent spanning empire would be well-known, particularly if he was the architect for many of Tevinter's buildings. I usually doubt the veracity of the Chantry's claims. I have a sneaky fondness for lines excised from the Chant. Considering Corypheus and the Architect's roles, and the increased focus on the mystery of the Black City, in a meta-sense it makes sense that the writers would put this in World of Thedas to add a few scintiliating details. I am convinced that the Architect is a Tevinter Magister, as there is the mentioned evidence as well as the design of his clothing being similar to Urthemiel's symbol.

Again from a meta standpoint, the writers wouldn't have 'The Architect of Beauty' as Urthemiel's High Priest, and a Tevinter-dressed darkspawn mage that has amnesia and wears Urthemiel's symbol and has similar abilities to Corypheus as separate characters. Conservation of detail, and all that.

[Arisugawa]

Conductor means Corypheus, being adapted from a Greek word I believe. Corypheus is the leader of the Seven Magisters, Corypheus shows up and convinces the Architect to join him on a grand project. They are similar in appearance and powers, with both exhibiting amnesia and confusion to some extent. David Gaider has made comments that Corypheus and the Architect are the same kind of being. They are both rather specific kind of beings.

He said they are the same type of character, which is more open to interpretation.

 

Don't get me wrong: it makes sense for the Architect to be one the Magisters. I just want more than conjecture and speculation before I'm board with it.

 

And having the Architect be a Magister still doesn't remove the problem of the talking and intelligent darkspawn Disciplines in Awakening, which is still something I do not like and which I could excise.

[Caddius]

He said they are the same type of character, which is more open to interpretation.

 

Don't get me wrong: it makes sense for the Architect to be one the Magisters. I just want more than conjecture and speculation before I'm board with it.

 

And having the Architect be a Magister still doesn't remove the problem of the talking and intelligent darkspawn Disciplines in Awakening, which is still something I do not like and which I could excise.

Fair enough.

My bigger problem with Awakening was the Emissaries. Now that was a bit of a ret-con.

I was expecting to run into one of these creepy, talking darkspawn in Origins, as mentioned by the samples of Codex entries from pre-release. Then in Awakening, everyone is acting like a talking darkspawn is something completely unheard of, even the Wardens. Maybe the survivors of Vigil's Keep were just poorly-read Wardens.   It's been awhile, but I believe in The Calling, the Grey Wardens mention they've heard rumors of Emissaries who could talk, and thought the Architect was an atypically intelligent and polite one. And he did appear like a normal Hurlock Emissary, though they changed the Emissaries appearance to somewhat mimic the Architect's Awakening depiction by the time of Dragon Age 2.

So I can somewhat buy that the Warden's ritual in reverse will Awaken the darkspawn and cut them off from the Song. Mostly because I have a jumble of conflicting theories on what the Song and Blight actually are, and we don't have solid info on that. What confuses me is the Awakened darkspawn being sapient. Does the Blight subdue the intelligence of its creatures in favor of the hive mind? Are the darkspawn a sapient species that's been degraded by the Blight in the same way that ghouls are? *shrug*

 

On topic about other forgotten, beloved characters, Carroll, that crazy Templar guy at the boat in Origins. He was a barrel of laughs. I wonder what happened to him?

...  Oh.

[MadMadCarl]

I dunno if I agree with this, King Alistair actually seems to be doing a fairly decent job of running Ferelden, even accounting for that slight mishap when the Venatori usurped the Mage Rebellion and ended up taking over Redcliffe completely?

 

Otherwise, he's either have spent the last decade dead, or in exile as either a drunk or a Warden, both of which seem pretty rubbish fates for him? The drunken exile is perhaps the even worse worldstate, as while he finally sobers up and rejoins the Order, the Wardens turn on him and make him a fugitive from them once he finds out what Clarel was planning? And it's especially a downer ending for him after all he goes through, he potentially dies at Adamant anyway?

 

Suddenly the whole King thing looks pretty cushty?

Anora does exactly the same good job for ferelden (which makes me think that the writers were lazy to put any remarkable difference) but anora is clever and not a treacherous complaining biitch like alistair, and if you like alistair, i would pick warden alistair as the best since he has more involvement, and about being betrayed by the other grey wardens, both, alistair and loghain fairly deserve it for being so treacherous in the past, the only that I would hear complain about is stroud