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[nightscrawl]

The term 'heaven' is mentioned several times throughout the Chant of Light, so I have no issue with that. However, I'm not sure if there has ever been mention of a 'hell' or some analogous place. On death, if you're a good little Andrastian you (hopefully) are brought up to the side of the Maker. How nice. But what happens to evil people or non-believers? Has that been addressed at all?

 

This question occurred to me because I realized that I can't recall ever hearing anyone use the word 'hell' in an exclamation; "Who the hell are you?" "What the hell are you doing?" "Oh hell," and so forth. This would be similar to the use of other phrases that we take for granted but which have no corresponding terms in Thedosian lore. Take for example the term "Adam's apple." There is no Adam in Thedosian lore, so IMO it shouldn't really be used to describe that anatomical feature.

[X Equestris]

They're left to wander the Fade. Void is often used in place of Hell as a mild curse.

[Ashagar]

Its a hell in a orthodox christian way not in the dante's 9 cirlces, the catholic 13 circles or the protestant fire and brimestone hells of torment, they are left to wander the void instead of being at the makers side so are absent from the presense of god.

[Daerog]

13 circles? What? That's not what the catholic church teaches.

 

Anyway, "hell" for Andrastianism is wandering the Fade, to never be by the Maker's side, like X Equestris said.

[Ashagar]

Not what the modern catholic church teaches no, but dante didn't pull th comcept of the circles of hell out of thin air, the idea concept existed in the medival world based on apocryphal scriptures though I don't think anyone but Dante went into great detail about any them as he did in his dviine comedy.

[Heimerdinger]

Hell - unknown. The Void maybe? The Chantry could call the Fade hell, but they'd be wrong.

 

Fade - only demons and spirits are encountered in the lore. Some may take the form of dead people because they mirror events and people from the real world. No actual spirits of the deceased are ever encountered.

 

Heaven - At the Maker's side, somewhere beyond the Fade, but not even the fade spirits have the true answer on this one.

[Koneko Koji]

In the chant, one of the lines is:

“I shall not be left to wander the drifting roads of the Beyond, for there is no darkness in the Maker’s light…”

so it would seem that the Fade / Beyond - being denied of the Maker's presence would probably be what they consider hell,

a life time of wandering the fade, being tempted and taunted by demons.

[Treacherous J Slither]

No one is taken to the Maker's side because he has abandoned all of his children.

No one wanders the Fade either because ghosts/spirits of the deceased are never encountered.

When a Thedosian dies they simply rot in the dirt like an animal.

[X Equestris]

No one is taken to the Maker's side because he has abandoned all of his children.
No one wanders the Fade either because ghosts/spirits of the deceased are never encountered.
When a Thedosian dies they simply rot in the dirt like an animal.

And you have proof of this...where, exactly?

[Eliastion]

What's interesting that, of all the cultures we have some details on, the only one that doesn't consider Fade to be the realm of the dead seems to the dwarven one. Now we could wonder to what extent are all these cosmologies influenced by ancient elves and how much of that was in fact connected to the idea of Uthenera...
 
The problem with encountering spirits of the dead in the Fade is that Fade is... strange. On one hand it does reflect the physical area, on the other, however, it seems to have much more than one layer. If many people sleep together, they don't wander in each other's dreams. If a departing soul were to go to the Fade, the same principle would apply - why exactly would we expect the spirits to be any more observable than a dream of an average sleeping person? And locating (ad getting to) someone in the Fade - while possible - is no trivial task, generally speaking. Locating a dead person could be harder still. And when you do finally encounter a soul - would it really be so easy in most cases to distinguish it from some fade spirit?
You can dismiss occasional encounters with ghosts as meetings with fade spirits pretending to be these people, but you can - just as easily - assume that mages in fact do occasionally encounter souls but are unable to identify them as such. 
 
Oh, and finally

(...)
When a Thedosian dies they simply rot in the dirt like an animal.

Frankly, the Chant doesn't outright deny and Dalish religion outright states that animals actually do have souls too. So, yeah, the "like an animal" parts is likely to be right, especially seeing how much easier dead bodies, animals and plants are to possess for demons rather than inanimate objects. Regardless of what happens to the soul after death, its existence - and not really being reserved for sentients - seems to be relatively certain.

[Daerog]

The Warden encountered a town of deceased spirits/souls in Awakening. Their bodies died long ago, and they were trapped in the Fade.

 

They didn't die normally, best to keep that in mind I guess, but the Warden still ran across souls/spirits in the Fade who had no bodies to return to. Even Justice recognized that they were victims, not just other spirits playing a part.

 

The dead can wander the Fade.

[Gervaise]

If you go by the Chant of Light then the Maker is the fire at the heart of the World.   (Transfigurations 12, verse 6).   This is actually very similar to both certain real world religions and the idea of the Creator in Tolkein's fantasy world.    When Gandalf says "I am a servant of the Secret Fire" he is referring to the Imperishable Fire that comes from Eru (the One) and from which the One created the Holy Ones.  Creation comes out of music and the Void is a place of emptiness, set apart from and not reached by the music and fire of creation.  This also seems very much like the idea of the Void in Thedas.    When Andruil went to the Void is caused madness and memory loss.    The original bad guy in Tolkein's world, Melkor/Morgoth, tried to find the Imperishable Fire so he could create things for himself, sought  it in the Void and returned to create discord in the music.

 

The Chantry certainly teaches that the virtuous will eventually pass through the Fade to the Maker's side.    Andraste talks of being guided to the Fire by its light.    Fire is also meant to cleanse the soul on its journey, which makes it sound a lot like purgatory.    Originally that place of destination was meant to be the Golden City.    If the Maker is no longer there, then presumably wherever the Maker is, that would be the destination of the souls of the faithful.     It lies somewhere beyond this world, which is sufficiently vague to leave it open to interpretation.

 

As for the rest, it would seem their soul/spirit is cast adrift to wander the Fade (which is a really big place) or in the case of the worst offenders, cast into the Void.    However, other cultures have a different take on it.   The Avaar believe in a sort of reincarnation for those who have been deemed worthy.     Just as the spirits of their "gods" that have taken mortal form, when killed will return to the Fade and reform there, which seems borne out both by what Solas says about spirits and what happened with Mythal.    So may be there isn't any "hell" as such, just an endless cycle from which only the virtuous escape and achieve Nirvana at the Maker's side.

[Daerog]

I wonder what is to happen to those who seem to be "fused" with a spirit, like with Anders (or Flemeth).

 

Spirits become wisps and demons become wraiths when they are destroyed, and they slowly form into a new identity. People just go away. Do the two separate to go to their proper fates? Does the mortal part dissipate into the Fade like a spirit? Does the spirit go beyond the Fade? Can the person internally "choose" whether he or she is more a spirit or mortal and thus choose their fate?

[SwobyJ]

The afterlife is a concept that Dragon Age hasn't focused on yet, but seems to be inching towards it with its content about Nevarra.

 

There's probably several views one could validly take, just like with most major concepts of Dragon Age lore, heh.

 

1)You die, you die. Anything else that might seem like you isn't you, because its a spirit, and people aren't spirits. This is especially true if someone thinks that all spirits are just other forms of demons (basically aka something dangerous and bad to interact with). There is no place you go after death, only magic that perhaps sometimes emulates what a person is/was.

 

2)There is an afterlife, or a bunch of forms of afterlife. A person can die and become a ghost on Thedas. Or they can enter the 'Void' (either the Fade as we've seen it or more likely another layer of existence on it that is basically 'Hell') where they become one with it.

What is supposedly locked away at this point in time is the Golden City and the Maker's side, so any 'heaven', in the understanding of at least much of the lore, is actually not accessible. Its either a state of 'purgatory' or 'hell' for us.

There doesn't seem to be 'dead souls' on the Yellow/Green Fade realms, only 'spirits' and 'demons'. No dead soul has been seen entering the known Fade.

Basically, we have information on what could be afterlife, but no proof or knowledge. We know there are spirits of the dead, but we don't know the nature of these spirits. We know that entities in the Fade can construct based on memories and ideas and emotions, but we've never seen a 'dead person/soul' pass the Veil. We have legend of the Golden City and the beyond where the Maker now resides, but no proof. We have legend of the Void as a mass that the dead may enter, but we've not been there yet (it seems).

 

3)It is all one. This is stuff that DAO and DA2 somewhat touches on, but DAI dives more into. There are Thedosian cultures and beliefs that even the many realms we speak of, including Thedas, is all 'living'. Its all part of the same overall composition. When one dies, there's infinite forms they could 'reincarnate' into. We are all spirits, and we are all real. A god can be many things, as can a mortal. So we are all living our afterlife, and dying from our old being, all the time - we only lack perspective in our mortal limited forms.

 

This last part is the most vaguely put, because I lack exact lore knowledge and I also don't think that Bioware has really went fully into it yet, but I do think its a thing and an important perspective on Dragon Age. Basically a 'does the afterlife even matter?' higher level. More recent content like Jaws of Hakkon explores this a little.

 

I think we're in for a future full game (whether DA4 or beyond) that cares more about this question of hell/heaven/afterlife. 

We currently don't even know is Beyond truly fully = Void. Is the Void a different realm in a way (like Yellow is different from Green Fade), or is it just the 'deepest' part of the Beyond? What is the Beyond? Is it just everything beyond Thedas? There's definitions so far that only present more questions, not answers. So I do expect some more answers later on.

 

But always always always, one can take the perspective that it's all 'magic', and a person dies when they die, anything else being only emulation of what that person was.

 

To directly answer: If there is a 'hell' in Dragon Age, its either seen as the wandering of the Beyond (a word that can mean anything beyond physical Thedas), or the Void (seemingly specifically seen as a terrible part/version/form/realm of the Beyond and/or Fade). We have not fully understood what Beyond can mean (IMO) and we have not really fully covered what 'Void' even is, so that's why I think we have more content to come at some point. The only answer we can solidly give so far is: "The dead either are dead, or wander Thedas, or become new things/beings/people/animals on Thedas, or somethingsomething Fade, but as far as we know, they do not go to the Maker (yet)."

[SwobyJ]

If you go by the Chant of Light then the Maker is the fire at the heart of the World.   (Transfigurations 12, verse 6).   This is actually very similar to both certain real world religions and the idea of the Creator in Tolkein's fantasy world.    When Gandalf says "I am a servant of the Secret Fire" he is referring to the Imperishable Fire that comes from Eru (the One) and from which the One created the Holy Ones.  Creation comes out of music and the Void is a place of emptiness, set apart from and not reached by the music and fire of creation.  This also seems very much like the idea of the Void in Thedas.    When Andruil went to the Void is caused madness and memory loss.    The original bad guy in Tolkein's world, Melkor/Morgoth, tried to find the Imperishable Fire so he could create things for himself, sought  it in the Void and returned to create discord in the music.

 

The Chantry certainly teaches that the virtuous will eventually pass through the Fade to the Maker's side.    Andraste talks of being guided to the Fire by its light.    Fire is also meant to cleanse the soul on its journey, which makes it sound a lot like purgatory.    Originally that place of destination was meant to be the Golden City.    If the Maker is no longer there, then presumably wherever the Maker is, that would be the destination of the souls of the faithful.     It lies somewhere beyond this world, which is sufficiently vague to leave it open to interpretation.

 

As for the rest, it would seem their soul/spirit is cast adrift to wander the Fade (which is a really big place) or in the case of the worst offenders, cast into the Void.    However, other cultures have a different take on it.   The Avaar believe in a sort of reincarnation for those who have been deemed worthy.     Just as the spirits of their "gods" that have taken mortal form, when killed will return to the Fade and reform there, which seems borne out both by what Solas says about spirits and what happened with Mythal.    So may be there isn't any "hell" as such, just an endless cycle from which only the virtuous escape and achieve Nirvana at the Maker's side.

 

This last part is imo important. You can take a monotheistic take (Maker), a polytheistic take (Creators), or a much more eastern take that only uses the names of 'gods' as symbols for a larger process happening that we have limited understanding of (reincarnation, cycle, nirvana of sorts).

[Yaroub]

It's the void i think , you know just lost forever , but certainly there is no hell in the Chantry lore , i do not think it is the fade either.

[SwobyJ]

They're basically say we're 'lost' (to whatever degree) when we're not taken by the Maker to be by his side.

 

Which is pretty much the original Christian sin/sacred difference as well, in its good/bad-ness.

[MisterJB]

T

There doesn't seem to be 'dead souls' on the Yellow/Green Fade realms, only 'spirits' and 'demons'. No dead soul has been seen entering the known Fade.

Basically, we have information on what could be afterlife, but no proof or knowledge. We know there are spirits of the dead, but we don't know the nature of these spirits. We know that entities in the Fade can construct based on memories and ideas and emotions, but we've never seen a 'dead person/soul' pass the Veil.

 

Not true if Yavana can be believed.

In the comic, she summoned the soul of a recently deceased man and bound it to this corpse with the word "his spirit lingers in the Fade."

 

So, there seems to be at least a period of time in which the souls of the dead pass to the Fade. What happens afterwards is anyone's guess.

 

[andy6915]

Not true if Yavana can be believed.

In the comic, she summoned the soul of a recently deceased man and bound it to this corpse with the word "his spirit lingers in the Fade."

 

So, there seems to be at least a period of time in which the souls of the dead pass to the Fade. What happens afterwards is anyone's guess.

 

 

More proof: Justice himself tells you that souls of the dead always pass through the fade, but they're never in the fade for long before they pass onto... Somewhere else. He says that even spirits don't know where they go, all they know is that souls do enter the fade but quickly disappear into some deeper layer that is beyond the fade and even spirits have no clue where or what that place is. Is that where the Maker resides, for souls of good Andrastian's to sit at his side? Who knows. Either way, when a spirit itself is backing up the idea that souls enter the fade and pass through it to get to some place beyond the fade... I'd say it's true, at least that part. Now, the part about that place being the Maker's realm is the part that the facts have nothing to say about.