125 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

Keltoris wrote...

@your PS, yes, what I've heard from people who weren't fully ready, Kelly gets it. Possibly more.

I doubt the people melded into the Reaper are part of it once it is alive. For one thing, their last moments were very traumatic, and I suspect, even if they remained sane, they'd want revenge. I am curious as to two things: why so many Reapers in that ending clip were cuttlefish, and how does the Collector based creation fit in with the extinction cycle. The first cannot be answered, yet; the second has me thinking they pick one sentient species per extinction cycle to make a new Reaper from to join their ranks. Likely the most troublesome race.

Or do they do the extinction cycle to repair, and we are being collected just to replace Soverign. Which would explain why most like like cuttlefish..

Shoulda put "incredibly massive spoilers" on the title ^.^

[E] cannot be bothering revising to include what Packard said.

In that ending sequence, look closely, one of them  doesn't have a cuttlefish appearance

[Lavans6879]

I played through the final mission, again, and just now noticed something.

http://img697.images...01001281512.jpg

I believe the archway just above the door is where the people are super heated just prior to being injected. If so, that would explain why the liquid was orange instead of grey like how Chakwas described it. That and it would further conclude that the people were indeed processed into a type of organic metal and not just some "genetic goo" used only for the certain parts of the Human-Reaper. Though, I must admit, that the vulnerable spots in it's armor have an orange glow to it, such as the core in its chest. Perhaps that's where it pumps the liquefied people into the areas that need development?

Modifié par Lavans6879, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:30 .

[pacer90]

HelterSkelter89 wrote...

well despite the games artistic freedom from staying scientifically accurate example:

shepard being salvageable after being dead and without oxygen for more than 15 minutes (total brain damage),  in the vacuum of space (his air tube got pulled out, this would lead to explosive decompression of gas in the body much like the bends), and i'm going to guess he fell into that planet he was so close to which if it had any atmosphere would have incinerated him before he blew to pieces upon impact with the surface.

no amount of advanced techology could bring someone back from such a situation, there would be no body to salvage in the first place and even if there was the brain would be completely useless. but whatever, they've already started this game with the most unecessarily ridiculous gimmick they could think of, crying about it now won't do any good.

anyway, no, if you liquified a body it would not retain any of its memories. neurons lose all their stored memory within minutes of death of the brain. the individual cells of the body however would remain alive and i guess could be put back together.

also in that last fight, i kept wondering why the thousand foot tall monster didn't just, i dunno, swat shepard? do regular size human have any trouble killing mosquitos? that fight was ridiculous, might as well have fought off sovereign from one of the citadel taxis if the larvae can be taken down with pistols

I'll try and help out somewhat here

Space = cold correct? (Most of the time) Anyway if it's reallyyyy cold you can survive without going brain dead for hours. Happened to a poor little girl who got locked out of her house here in Canada. "Dead" for hours, when revived brain function restored.

Air tube =/= suits structural integrity. Could still prevent decompression.

The normandy wasn't in orbit, it was NEAR a planet, but apparently not affected by it's gravitational pull. I think he just drifted.

But you're right about the last two points. Though I was about to step on a platform and he swatted it away? I don't know why he didn't try it again ><

[TheKnave69]

Here's my theory:  The 50K year cycle is the reproductive cycle of the Reapers.  You take the best, most highly advanced species and use them to create new Reapers. Maybe the human-Reaper was smaller because not many people were harvested yet.  A couple hundred thousand on the colonies vs. 6+ billion on Earth.  Perhaps as more organic material is used, the bigger the Reaper. 

As for why some humans are used as husks, maybe they're genetically inferior and wouldn't make a good component, for whatever reason, so aternate uses were developed...

Like clear cutting a forest to build a house, you always leave some behind, or plant more trees to replace the ones you used.  Maybe it takes 50K years to regrow the trees..

HelterSkelter89 wrote...

anyway, no, if you liquified a body it would not retain any of its memories. neurons lose all their stored memory within minutes of death of the brain. the individual cells of the body however would remain alive and i guess could be put back together.

Here's part of an article about biochemical memory: "
Biochemical Memory

In 1955, Thompson and McConnell conditioned planarian flatworms by pairing a bright light with an electric shock. After repeating this several times, they took away the electric shock, and only exposed them to the bright light. The flatworms would react to the bright light as if they had been shocked. Thompson and McConnell found that if they cut the worm in two, and allowed both worms to regenerate each half would develop the light-shock reaction.

In 1962, McConnell repeated the experiment, but instead of cutting the trained flatworms in two he ground them into small pieces and fed them to other flatworms. Incredibility, these flatworms learned to associate the bright light with a shock much faster than flatworms who has not been fed trained worms. An explanation for this phenomenon in flatworms is still unknown today.

Modifié par TheKnave69, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:24 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Keltoris wrote...

Wrexdot wrote...

There's a prothean beacon on one of N7 missions

This I'll have to find..

It's, quite frankly, epic because it is a side mission that directly relates to the main plot.

[AgnosticTheocrat]

Reapers?

[Viper 029]

*SPOILER*

Harbinger is a Reaper as far as I can tell. He was simply controlling the Collector's Leader.

My question is, if the Reapers are built to look like the creatures they were created from, which creatures had been used to create the conventional Reapers, such as Sovereign and the Reaper fleet we see at the end. Hope that's explained in Mass Effect 3.

[Giantevilhead]

TheKnave69 wrote...

HelterSkelter89 wrote...

anyway, no, if you liquified a body it would not retain any of its memories. neurons lose all their stored memory within minutes of death of the brain. the individual cells of the body however would remain alive and i guess could be put back together.

Here's part of an article about biochemical memory: "
Biochemical Memory

In 1955, Thompson and McConnell conditioned planarian flatworms by pairing a bright light with an electric shock. After repeating this several times, they took away the electric shock, and only exposed them to the bright light. The flatworms would react to the bright light as if they had been shocked. Thompson and McConnell found that if they cut the worm in two, and allowed both worms to regenerate each half would develop the light-shock reaction.

In 1962, McConnell repeated the experiment, but instead of cutting the trained flatworms in two he ground them into small pieces and fed them to other flatworms. Incredibility, these flatworms learned to associate the bright light with a shock much faster than flatworms who has not been fed trained worms. An explanation for this phenomenon in flatworms is still unknown today.

That's because neurons don't store memory, they are the memory. Memories are formed based on synaptic connections. In fact, many more synaptic connections are formed than needed. Once the synaptic connections are formed, unneccessary ones are pruned and the ones we need are kept. The brain is like a hard drive, its structure changes based on what memories are formed. Memories can be restored as long as the structure of the brain is intact.

[Lavans6879]

Viper 029 wrote...
 
My question is, if the Reapers are built to look like the creatures they were created from, which creatures had been used to create the conventional Reapers, such as Sovereign and the Reaper fleet we see at the end. Hope that's explained in Mass Effect 3.

Perhaps they were created from an aquatic life form, or maybe even a race that resembled the Hanar.

Giantevilhead wrote...

That's because neurons don't store memory, they are the memory. Memories are formed based on synaptic connections. In fact, many more synaptic connections are formed than needed. Once the synaptic connections are formed, unneccessary ones are pruned and the ones we need are kept. The brain is like a hard drive, its structure changes based on what memories are formed. Memories can be restored as long as the structure of the brain is intact.

So, in theory, by converting a person into an organic metal they can preserve the memories as long as the synaptic connections are kept activate if not duplicated. I wonder what kind of reprogramming the Human-Reaper would have had to go through in order to turn the thoughts and memories of it's "materials" for it to be hostile towards pure organics.

Modifié par Lavans6879, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:00 .

[XxRaceBannonxX]

I haven't seen this theory posted here yet.. But this idea struck me after reading a fellow poster's notion of:

LavonTB wrote...

I take it Harbinger was building a new ship since Sovereign had been taken out two years earlier.  But as we begin to talk about Harbinger that means that the Reapers left behind two ships to keep an eye on the Milky Way instead of one, possibly more?  So why bother building another Reaper?  Why not go and wake the other's in Dark Space and get the galatic genocide off in full swing?  And then pick a whole planet or two and make a few Human or other species Reapers and go back to nap time?  But then again we wouldn't have much of a second game nor would we have been introduced so well to the Collector's.

So here I go. I don't see much mention of the Illusive Man in this thread, and I think that's a shame. He is by far the most, pun not quite intended, illusive and mysterious character in the game. I don't think Harbinger was a reaper. Like LavonTB wrote, why, if there were two reapers in Citadel Space or even in our Galaxy, would they need to build another? They would juse use, supposing Harbinger is a Reaper, Harbinger and have him bring on the apocalypse of all organic life.

No I think that the Illusive Man is tied into all of this much more sinisterly than he lets on or than we have thought. What if the Illusive Man was Harbinger? His motives are always "pushing humanity forward"... But he does it in such extreme, most of the time inhumane methods. He treats humans and practically anyone he encounters as expendable to his cause... Very Reaper-like. Perhaps he is a puppet for the Reapers, a fallback in case Sovereign failed? 

More evidence... When you are in the Collector Base in the end of the game, before you battle the Human-Reaper, you have a conversation with him and he wishes for you to leave the station intact.. Stating reasons about how useful it will be in the coming days and whatnot... What if he was just following orders? Trying to ensure the station is intact, for future revisits by Collector-like species the Reaper have on call? And not only that... Whether or not you destroy the station or not, the Human-Reaper still attacks you and you are still forced to kill it... Could he have anything to do with its premature activation? He may have wished for Shepard to die in the Base... But then why would he have brought you back at all if he only wanted you dead? Hm...

Just as an aside, his eyes are strikingly... non-human. He seems like a potential synthetic in diguise, and perhaps a sympathizer for the Reapers and perhaps he is already indoctrinated? He has been around a while... Maybe he had dealings with Sovereign and the Collectors before now? It's always convenient how he gets Shepard into these near-fatal situations... There is a lot more going on there than Bioware has told us. Anyone else agree with me?

[Viper 029]

XxRaceBannonxX wrote...

I haven't seen this theory posted here yet.. But this idea struck me after reading a fellow poster's notion of:

LavonTB wrote...

I take it Harbinger was building a new ship since Sovereign had been taken out two years earlier.  But as we begin to talk about Harbinger that means that the Reapers left behind two ships to keep an eye on the Milky Way instead of one, possibly more?  So why bother building another Reaper?  Why not go and wake the other's in Dark Space and get the galatic genocide off in full swing?  And then pick a whole planet or two and make a few Human or other species Reapers and go back to nap time?  But then again we wouldn't have much of a second game nor would we have been introduced so well to the Collector's.

So here I go. I don't see much mention of the Illusive Man in this thread, and I think that's a shame. He is by far the most, pun not quite intended, illusive and mysterious character in the game. I don't think Harbinger was a reaper. Like LavonTB wrote, why, if there were two reapers in Citadel Space or even in our Galaxy, would they need to build another? They would juse use, supposing Harbinger is a Reaper, Harbinger and have him bring on the apocalypse of all organic life.

No I think that the Illusive Man is tied into all of this much more sinisterly than he lets on or than we have thought. What if the Illusive Man was Harbinger? His motives are always "pushing humanity forward"... But he does it in such extreme, most of the time inhumane methods. He treats humans and practically anyone he encounters as expendable to his cause... Very Reaper-like. Perhaps he is a puppet for the Reapers, a fallback in case Sovereign failed? 

More evidence... When you are in the Collector Base in the end of the game, before you battle the Human-Reaper, you have a conversation with him and he wishes for you to leave the station intact.. Stating reasons about how useful it will be in the coming days and whatnot... What if he was just following orders? Trying to ensure the station is intact, for future revisits by Collector-like species the Reaper have on call? And not only that... Whether or not you destroy the station or not, the Human-Reaper still attacks you and you are still forced to kill it... Could he have anything to do with its premature activation? He may have wished for Shepard to die in the Base... But then why would he have brought you back at all if he only wanted you dead? Hm...

Just as an aside, his eyes are strikingly... non-human. He seems like a potential synthetic in diguise, and perhaps a sympathizer for the Reapers and perhaps he is already indoctrinated? He has been around a while... Maybe he had dealings with Sovereign and the Collectors before now? It's always convenient how he gets Shepard into these near-fatal situations... There is a lot more going on there than Bioware has told us. Anyone else agree with me?

I think what you've brought up is an amazing analysis of the Illusive Man, and would make for an amazing story in Mass Effect 3, although I doubt Bioware would go along with it.  Personally I think they'll make it so Illusive Man is exactly as he appears to be, and is not under indoctrination.  
Odds are they'll use the basis of Harbinger as a Reaper leading the Reaper fleet.  Although Harbinger was technically never in Citadel space, or so I'm led to believe.  He had simply been controlling the Collector General.  The reason for the Proto-Reaper (human Reaper) had been in order to create a new version of the Reaper, odds are that Harbinger chose humanity for this step in Reaper evolution after realizing how important humans had been in the destruction of Sovereign.  Realizing that the humans were strong enough to defeat a Reaper, why not turn these creatures (humans) into a weapon.  The essence of human in a Reaper would undoubtedly make for an unstoppable killing machine.  No doubt the boss battle against the Proto-Reaper would have been more difficult had the Proto-Reaper been completed.
Just my opinion however.

[LavonTB]

O wait.... I made a decent point? Go me!

[LavonTB]

Viper 029 wrote...

*SPOILER*
Harbinger is a Reaper as far as I can tell. He was simply controlling the Collector's Leader.
My question is, if the Reapers are built to look like the creatures they were created from, which creatures had been used to create the conventional Reapers, such as Sovereign and the Reaper fleet we see at the end. Hope that's explained in Mass Effect 3.

In the first game when you are fighting Saren for the first time and you talk to the red hologram of Sovereign he states a few things.  That Reapers have always been present since the universe began, as far as their has been time there has been Reapers.  So in that pretense it is hard to say who the conventional Reapers are made after.  Since later we find out that whatever species that use to make a new Reaper they make the Reaper in their image, almost honoring them.  I honestly see the Reapers as almost being a form of population control. 

[Giantevilhead]

Lavans6879 wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

That's because neurons don't store memory, they are the memory. Memories are formed based on synaptic connections. In fact, many more synaptic connections are formed than needed. Once the synaptic connections are formed, unneccessary ones are pruned and the ones we need are kept. The brain is like a hard drive, its structure changes based on what memories are formed. Memories can be restored as long as the structure of the brain is intact.

So, in theory, by converting a person into an organic metal they can preserve the memories as long as the synaptic connections are kept activate if not duplicated. I wonder what kind of reprogramming the Human-Reaper would have had to go through in order to turn the thoughts and memories of it's "materials" for it to be hostile towards pure organics.

In theory, if you can decode how the synaptic connections amalgamate to form memories, you can translate that information into any form you want. It'll be like transferring data between hard drives and solid state drives. They store information differently, but they can store the same kinds of information.

[LavonTB]

XxRaceBannonxX wrote...

I haven't seen this theory posted here yet.. But this idea struck me after reading a fellow poster's notion of:

LavonTB wrote...

I take it Harbinger was building a new ship since Sovereign had been taken out two years earlier.  But as we begin to talk about Harbinger that means that the Reapers left behind two ships to keep an eye on the Milky Way instead of one, possibly more?  So why bother building another Reaper?  Why not go and wake the other's in Dark Space and get the galatic genocide off in full swing?  And then pick a whole planet or two and make a few Human or other species Reapers and go back to nap time?  But then again we wouldn't have much of a second game nor would we have been introduced so well to the Collector's.

So here I go. I don't see much mention of the Illusive Man in this thread, and I think that's a shame. He is by far the most, pun not quite intended, illusive and mysterious character in the game. I don't think Harbinger was a reaper. Like LavonTB wrote, why, if there were two reapers in Citadel Space or even in our Galaxy, would they need to build another? They would juse use, supposing Harbinger is a Reaper, Harbinger and have him bring on the apocalypse of all organic life.

No I think that the Illusive Man is tied into all of this much more sinisterly than he lets on or than we have thought. What if the Illusive Man was Harbinger? His motives are always "pushing humanity forward"... But he does it in such extreme, most of the time inhumane methods. He treats humans and practically anyone he encounters as expendable to his cause... Very Reaper-like. Perhaps he is a puppet for the Reapers, a fallback in case Sovereign failed? 

More evidence... When you are in the Collector Base in the end of the game, before you battle the Human-Reaper, you have a conversation with him and he wishes for you to leave the station intact.. Stating reasons about how useful it will be in the coming days and whatnot... What if he was just following orders? Trying to ensure the station is intact, for future revisits by Collector-like species the Reaper have on call? And not only that... Whether or not you destroy the station or not, the Human-Reaper still attacks you and you are still forced to kill it... Could he have anything to do with its premature activation? He may have wished for Shepard to die in the Base... But then why would he have brought you back at all if he only wanted you dead? Hm...

Just as an aside, his eyes are strikingly... non-human. He seems like a potential synthetic in diguise, and perhaps a sympathizer for the Reapers and perhaps he is already indoctrinated? He has been around a while... Maybe he had dealings with Sovereign and the Collectors before now? It's always convenient how he gets Shepard into these near-fatal situations... There is a lot more going on there than Bioware has told us. Anyone else agree with me?

So let me get this right, you think that TIM controls Harbinger who in turn was controlling the Collector leader?  We know that Harbinger is a Reaper though who was controlling the Collector leader in the base and was able to escape all movie style just seconds before it exploded.  It seems like one big jerk around with that theory, because that would mean TIM controlled Harbinger, who controlled the Collector leader who in turn controlled the lesser grunt Collectors.  So that would mean TIM was just jerking Shepard around but why would he he send him to the Collector base then?  He knew he had a chance to stop it all. 

As fare as TIM's eyes, didn't the leader of what was it the Blue Suns on Zaeed's mission have yellow eyes the same style as TIM's?  I will replay through that tonight and find out.

[WoodWizzard87]

Mass Effect movie, directed by James Cameron or Neil Blomkampp, and actually backed by Bioware. Now that would be fcking epic.

[LavonTB]

Since we know that essentially that Sovereign was the Vanguard to make sure the signal from the citadel was to be set off. And that Harbinger was ahead of the Collector's in the middle of the Milky Way. It makes me wonder just a little bit more what the derelict Reaper's job was?hmmmz, thoughts?

[davidt0504]

Corti78 wrote...

The theory that I've most often seen so far is that the human reaper may actually just be a core. As pointed out all the reapers at the end resemble Sovereign or a ship. Not to mention even when the human reaper is completed it would be incredibly small compared to the likes of Sovereign.

I think this makes the most sense

[davidt0504]

LavonTB wrote...

Since we know that essentially that Sovereign was the Vanguard to make sure the signal from the citadel was to be set off. And that Harbinger was ahead of the Collector's in the middle of the Milky Way. It makes me wonder just a little bit more what the derelict Reaper's job was?hmmmz, thoughts?

it was probably invovled in an actual invasion but was damaged during it somehow

[davidt0504]

LavonTB wrote...

Viper 029 wrote...

*SPOILER*
Harbinger is a Reaper as far as I can tell. He was simply controlling the Collector's Leader.
My question is, if the Reapers are built to look like the creatures they were created from, which creatures had been used to create the conventional Reapers, such as Sovereign and the Reaper fleet we see at the end. Hope that's explained in Mass Effect 3.

In the first game when you are fighting Saren for the first time and you talk to the red hologram of Sovereign he states a few things.  That Reapers have always been present since the universe began, as far as their has been time there has been Reapers.  So in that pretense it is hard to say who the conventional Reapers are made after.  Since later we find out that whatever species that use to make a new Reaper they make the Reaper in their image, almost honoring them.  I honestly see the Reapers as almost being a form of population control. 

maybe the reapers are extradimensional and came into the universe during the big bang, maybe they caused the big bang and are now offened that their universe is being plagued by this organic contaminant lol probably not but the first part about being extradimensional seems plausible to me, that is if Sovereign wasn't just exaggerating.

[Viper 029]

I like how in Mass Effect 1, when you talk to Sovereign for the first time, he says that you can't possibly comprehend why the Reapers do what they do. And in Mass Effect 2 you learn that the Reapers have conducted this cycle in order to evolve themselves as a species. Repurposing the Protheans as slaves and agents and using other species (such as humans) to create new Reapers. We also know that the Collectors have made deals to purchase organics, such as the "two dozen pure quarians." I would like to know what plans the Reapers had for those beings.

[Myrmedus]

davidt0504 wrote...

LavonTB wrote...

Viper 029 wrote...

*SPOILER*
Harbinger is a Reaper as far as I can tell. He was simply controlling the Collector's Leader.
My question is, if the Reapers are built to look like the creatures they were created from, which creatures had been used to create the conventional Reapers, such as Sovereign and the Reaper fleet we see at the end. Hope that's explained in Mass Effect 3.

In the first game when you are fighting Saren for the first time and you talk to the red hologram of Sovereign he states a few things.  That Reapers have always been present since the universe began, as far as their has been time there has been Reapers.  So in that pretense it is hard to say who the conventional Reapers are made after.  Since later we find out that whatever species that use to make a new Reaper they make the Reaper in their image, almost honoring them.  I honestly see the Reapers as almost being a form of population control. 

maybe the reapers are extradimensional and came into the universe during the big bang, maybe they caused the big bang and are now offened that their universe is being plagued by this organic contaminant lol probably not but the first part about being extradimensional seems plausible to me, that is if Sovereign wasn't just exaggerating.

I think they may just be 'survivors' of the previous Universe - ie. the one before our own Big Bang. If that were the case then in a way they are infinite. Maybe something went drastically wrong in their Universe to do with organic life and they're preventing it in the next Universe.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 01 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[Felix Golden]

Reapers: Street sweepers of the universe!



lol

[Lavans6879]

I just heard an interesting theory on the Steam forums suggesting that the Keepers may have constructed the first Reaper since the Keepers are around 35 million years old or so.

[WoodWizzard87]

if the reapers are true AI program by themselves, how would humans not be able to understand the likes of the reapers eradicating the species of the Milky Way galaxy. Last time i checked, computer programs are still governed by logic even if they have feelings.