125 réponses à ce sujet

[Lavans6879]

WoodWizzard87 wrote...

if the reapers are true AI program by themselves, how would humans not be able to understand the likes of the reapers eradicating the species of the Milky Way galaxy. Last time i checked, computer programs are still governed by logic even if they have feelings.

Maybe it's not quite that simple. If the collective thoughts/memories/consciousnesses of the race used to create a Reaper transfers over when everyone is being injected, then perhaps the "AI" ( if you could even call it that ) is too difficult to understand?

I see the Reapers' motives being two fold. The first being to assimilate all worth while knowledge and memories. The second being to use that knowledge and memories to ensure that they don't get toppled from the top of the food chain. If you think about it, mankind is the closest of the organic races to being a real threat to the Reapers. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Reapers tried to make a new reaper using liquefied humans.

Modifié par Lavans6879, 01 février 2010 - 06:55 .

[Giantevilhead]

WoodWizzard87 wrote...

if the reapers are true AI program by themselves, how would humans not be able to understand the likes of the reapers eradicating the species of the Milky Way galaxy. Last time i checked, computer programs are still governed by logic even if they have feelings.

But how do you know that Reaper intelligence is anything like computer programs we have?

We understand how individual neurons work, we even understand how certain brain structures work, but we don't understand how the 50 to 100 billion neurons in our brain and their hundreds to thousands of trillions of synaptic connections amalgamate into the mind. Even if the most basic units of a Reaper brain is similar to our computers, the sheer size may amalgamate into something that we cannot comprehend. We might be able to understand how a computer with a quard core processor, 4 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a 1 TB hard drive works but we'll probably have trouble understanding how a computer with 100 million of those networked together works.

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 01 février 2010 - 07:04 .

[Lavans6879]

I just thought of something. What if, during the creation process, the Reaper forms an outer shell for space flight with it's actual form being inside?



Thinking back to how EDI said that the Human-Reaper was already comprised of tens of thousands of humans, and more than a million more humans may be required to complete the Reaper, one could only speculate that it forms an outer shell that resembles all other known Reapers, or that the Human-Reaper was capable of physical growth.

[Sabre120]

Anyone thought of maybe having a closer look at the core in the Derelict Reaper? Maybe theres something in there

[Rankao]

Basically the Reapers see themselves to complete 2 goals. 1) Achieve the ultimate form of evolution. Likely the first Species that created the reapers created them to do exactly that forcefully "evolve" their species into the ultimate form. A immortal 'reaper' with the minds of all of the members of the species. Those members would basically become a God. 2) Maintain order in the milky way. Basically the reapers would want to prevent Sentient life from destroying itself. Obviously the first response that should be. "By destroying all Sentient life?" and the answer is yes. Life in general has a desire to consume unending. If a population is left uncheck it could consume itself out of resources. Basically when a Civilization would reach its peak it's consumption would only rise after that. The reapers choose this time harvest the civilization in order to prevent the civilization from eating itself alive. Leaving an sentient species control to long would affect how the other ones develop.



For example the Protheans had already started to do experiments of Human and Hanar. Likely they did similar research on other species as well. They might likely even be the reasons why there are multiple council species instead of one dominant force. It could be very possible that human was their control which in turn slowed down time to which humans become a space fairing species. Its also likely that if the Protheans did not delay this cycle humanity would have discovered a empty Citadel of species lost to time. Meaning that humanity has an Ironic fate .

[Lavans6879]

What about the pile of dead bodies found on the Collector ship? I wonder what they were up to with that. They obviously didn't plan on using them for Husks, let alone the Human-Reaper. Genetic modification perhaps? Preparing them to become a new type of Collector?

[Doomhams]

Lavans6879 wrote...

What about the pile of dead bodies found on the Collector ship? I wonder what they were up to with that. They obviously didn't plan on using them for Husks, let alone the Human-Reaper. Genetic modification perhaps? Preparing them to become a new type of Collector?

I think they got a jump start on gooification. I think they can just goo them ni the pod and then plug the pod up to a hose and vaccuum the mess out.

[TheLostGenius]

Keltoris wrote...

@your PS, yes, what I've heard from people who weren't fully ready, Kelly gets it. Possibly more.

I doubt the people melded into the Reaper are part of it once it is alive. For one thing, their last moments were very traumatic, and I suspect, even if they remained sane, they'd want revenge. I am curious as to two things: why so many Reapers in that ending clip were cuttlefish, and how does the Collector based creation fit in with the extinction cycle. The first cannot be answered, yet; the second has me thinking they pick one sentient species per extinction cycle to make a new Reaper from to join their ranks. Likely the most troublesome race.

Those are the Reaper dreadknoughts. Presumably each one has its own AI. Soverign may not be entirely dead...

Or do they do the extinction cycle to repair, and we are being collected just to replace Soverign. Which would explain why most like like cuttlefish..

Shoulda put "incredibly massive spoilers" on the title ^.^

[E] cannot be bothering revising to include what Packard said.

[supakillaii]

Lavans6879 wrote...

I just heard an interesting theory on the Steam forums suggesting that the Keepers may have constructed the first Reaper since the Keepers are around 35 million years old or so.

No, it's the other way around.

[abisha]

personaly find it to bad that the story lacks for reaper's, their have to be a bad guy but at least give it a purpose.

this whole reaper thing bug's me from ME1 already their goal is unkown, they are AI so someone must have created them, most logical sudden be the keepers, but then again in ME1 the keepers where conquered by reaper's so far i understand from it.

also the "human reaper" do not make much sens, Sovereign have the ability to "mind control" so it sudden also be posable to "Mind Control" humans.

they sudden have made a other end boss for this encounter, to bad they where not creative enough.

[Madodaz]

Lavans6879 wrote...

I'm not necessarily suggesting that the people were alive once injected into the Reaper frame, but that their memories carried over. How else could a Reaper be sapient and self aware? Even if they acquired knowledge through some sort of link with the other Reapers, that doesn't mean they would have an consciousness of their own, which is why I believe that they acquire a consciousness ( or multiple consciousnesses ) through the people.

P.S.
I'm playing through the game in hopes to verify if at least some of the crew gets turned into grey goo. There definitely needs to be more exploration on the liquefication process. I was kinda disappointed when you didn't get to see anyone actually become organic/metalic goo =[

Umm, I Don't know if it happend to you. But I saw that girl "Yoeman" get totally nailed, Maybe because when my team got ambushed, I coulnd't be arsed to save them straight away.

[supakillaii]

This is a compilation of few posts from these forums (my posts)



As I posted on another thread, I believe that the Old Machines build one new one, based on the most powerful race of the Cycle, then if it's successful, they build more in the Void.



For example, take the Nazara model. It is, at least in my opinion, based on the Protheans. At least, I believe so, while looking at the Statues on Ilos and Vigil.

----------

Materials: Grab 'em as they leave the Galaxy.



Edit: Oh, and after finishing building more of themselves, they would engineer the next Collectors.

From the leftovers that is.

[Madodaz]

Lavans6879 wrote...

I'm not necessarily suggesting that the people were alive once injected into the Reaper frame, but that their memories carried over. How else could a Reaper be sapient and self aware? Even if they acquired knowledge through some sort of link with the other Reapers, that doesn't mean they would have an consciousness of their own, which is why I believe that they acquire a consciousness ( or multiple consciousnesses ) through the people.

P.S.
I'm playing through the game in hopes to verify if at least some of the crew gets turned into grey goo. There definitely needs to be more exploration on the liquefication process. I was kinda disappointed when you didn't get to see anyone actually become organic/metalic goo =[

Umm, I Don't know if it happend to you. But I saw that girl "Yoeman" get totally nailed, Maybe because when my team got ambushed, I coulnd't be arsed to save them straight away.

[Doug84]

Lavans6879 wrote...

I really enjoyed the twist that organics are used as the primary material in the creation of Reapers. One of the biggest things I kept thinking back on was how Legion said that Reapers are comprised of multiple programs, presumably AI programs. Not only that, but Reapers are more or less self aware and sapient. I'm thinking that the collective memories of the creatures used in the construction of a Reaper are transferred to them, thus giving them that state of self awareness. I'm also thinking that the consciousness of those people form a collective will within the Reaper.

What do you guys think?

P.S.
Is it possible for the Normandy crew to be processed into the Human-Reaper at the end of the game?

I think each Reaper represents a whole species of minds - each member's genetic material and consciousness's combined into those creatures. To the Reapers, this is "Ascention" - the species has been made 'immortal', above their fleshy form, judging from what Harbinger says.

As for the crew, yes, it apparently is if you don't straight away take the final mission and do a few other missions instead.

[TheLostGenius]

 In the first game it is revealed that the Reapers purpose is to create mass extinction, either through genocide, or enslaving a species. I don't really think the idea of "turning people into paste that helps build reapers" really adds to the mythology. If anything it gives it a "vague" Soylent Green kind of "plot twist". ME2 has better gameplay, graphics and characters, the first game had the better story. The Reaper twist was ****ing amazing, probably one of the best of any game I've ever played. There are a few "oh noes" moments in ME2, but nothing mind blowing. Final boss was an improvement, looked cool but is canonically silly.

[Lavans6879]

Well, who's to say that using people as material to build a Reaper isn't mass extinction? Very little was known about the Reapers in the first game. Most of their technology was thought to be Prothean technology. The only thing that we did know about Reapers in ME1 is that they are primarily machines with a sense of self awareness and look down on organics. While some people don't agree with the Human-Reaper, and the idea that people were turned into an organic metal to be made into a Reaper, ME2 was primarily about the Collectors and how Reapers interact with the rest of the galaxy through the use of an external species like the heretic Geth or Collectors. Their purpose was only solidified in the storyline when it became apparent as to what was going on with not only the Collectors, but the Humans as well. One could speculate that Reapers actually acknowledge Humans as the dominant organic life most suited for ascension, which is why Human colonies were targeted before any alien colony.

[Fatal34Frame]

I hope they reveal how it all started.. Ancient sapient star ships don't tend to build themselves after all ;-) at least not the first one to me it's kinda obvious that it must've been an experiment that went horribly wrong at some point.. Probably wiped out their creators or something..

Alternative scenario could be that the first reaper was an attempt to "ascend" undergone by their creators (considering each reaper appears to be some sort of collective mind judging from what is revealed during ME2 and by what Sovereign says in ME1) .. Either way the 2nd scenario cannot explain why this "ascended" species would go forth and try to create more reapers so the "experiment gone wrong" theory appears more likely to me

Modifié par Fatal34Frame, 07 février 2010 - 12:12 .

[Giantevilhead]

I'm starting to think that the Reapers aren't really physical beings. They might actually be composed of some form of energy and that the Reapers we see are just shells used to contain that energy. That could be how they indoctrinate people. They emanate some kind of radiation that affects the brain functions of their victims. They build new Reapers to incorporate the consciousness of new races into themselves, at the same time they elevate the race they destroy to an energy state. After all, thoughts are essentially electromagnetic field.

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 07 février 2010 - 12:23 .

[Vagula]

Lavans6879 wrote...

I played through the final mission, again, and just now noticed something.

http://img697.images...01001281512.jpg

I believe the archway just above the door is where the people are super heated just prior to being injected. If so, that would explain why the liquid was orange instead of grey like how Chakwas described it. That and it would further conclude that the people were indeed processed into a type of organic metal and not just some "genetic goo" used only for the certain parts of the Human-Reaper. Though, I must admit, that the vulnerable spots in it's armor have an orange glow to it, such as the core in its chest. Perhaps that's where it pumps the liquefied people into the areas that need development?

What the hell is organic metal? It is pretty clearly defined in chemistry what is organic and what is metal. Organic metal makes as much sense as a triangle shaped circle.

[orpheus333]

The way I look at is that as sapient life they must also require reproduction, a continuation of their species. The reapers extinction cycle is a 50,000 year long jestation period for a new reaper. Obtaining the DNA of the most advanced race in the galaxy is a way for them to expand the organic base of their construction. Similar to how asari reproduce with other species in order to expand their genetic patterns.

The Reapers of Prothean stock are perhaps the ones we see at the end. Squid-Like and similar to what we know the protheans looked like from ME1. I don't think the process of creating the human-reaper is unique.

Modifié par andyr1986, 07 février 2010 - 12:40 .

[Marbazoid]

I think I heard somewhere in the game that the Protheans were not suitable for use in making a Reaper, so they were re-purposed to serve the Reapers in another way (Collectors). It would seem then, that the purpose of a cycle is to harvest to reproduce.



The Keepers could also be a race from another cycle that were not suitable to make a Reaper and so were re-purposed. (The name seems to follow a trend, named for their purpose)



The big questions is, why do Reapers require a genetically diverse race in order to reproduce? Otherwise they would just use any race that they could harvest at the time.

[luk3us]

Its also likely that if the Protheans did not delay this cycle humanity would have discovered a empty Citadel of species lost to time. Meaning that humanity has an Ironic fate .

I never thought of it like that. Excellent observation.

[Vagula]

The whole genetically diverse species is complete bull**** too and felt like a cheap way to make humans a chosen race or something. In real life biology humans are actually a very homogenous species.

[DBHolm]

Vagula wrote...

Lavans6879 wrote...

I played through the final mission, again, and just now noticed something.

http://img697.images...01001281512.jpg

I believe the archway just above the door is where the people are super heated just prior to being injected. If so, that would explain why the liquid was orange instead of grey like how Chakwas described it. That and it would further conclude that the people were indeed processed into a type of organic metal and not just some "genetic goo" used only for the certain parts of the Human-Reaper. Though, I must admit, that the vulnerable spots in it's armor have an orange glow to it, such as the core in its chest. Perhaps that's where it pumps the liquefied people into the areas that need development?

What the hell is organic metal? It is pretty clearly defined in chemistry what is organic and what is metal. Organic metal makes as much sense as a triangle shaped circle.

You clearly have no idea what on earth you are talking about. "Organic" in chemistry means jack. It is used simply to define a group of carbon compounds that were once thought only to occur in living organisms. It is completely arbitrary.

Quite aside from that, all organic matter is made up of chemicals -- almost all of which are metals. Even the "nonmetals" (hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, phosphorous, oxygen, sulfur, selenium, the halogens and the noble gasses) tend to become metallic when under enough pressure.

In short, many things that are organic has metals in it.

[Doubleweteehf]

From what I understand the Reapers are an infinitely powerful (it seems) group of machines that collect the attributes, ideas etc. of modern and ancient species of creatures over a long period of time and return to some sort of "great void". I contend that this great void is an extremely dense area at the (or a) "center of the universe".



Assuming we live in an oscillating universe (where a big bang causes all of existence to explode out of an infinitely dense point nowhere, which is caused by the reduction of all matter in the universe into an infinitely dense point), then all matter must ultimately be pulled back to some sort of very dense point. I think that the Reapers are acquiring sensory information from the only real sensory organs they have (us). They use information to continue to expand the empty (physically inexplicable i.e. dark matter/energy etc.) void.



So I guess, my basic theory is that the Reapers are a function of an infinitely dense mass in the center of the universe that processes data received from the outer limits of physically inhabited space in order to consume it.