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Was it all a dream?


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#426
dorktainian

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I am actually in this whole series right know and started playing again, so i am quite new to it.

 

Picking Destroy is the reset to the solution and the cycles anyway .... and all can start over again, because it doesn't take long for living things to forget the past and do the same mistakes again.

 

If you pick control or synthesis, Shep is not turned into a husk, cause a husk is an organic/synthetic construct, intertwined maybe but not mixed.

 

Shep on behalf of that is beeing transformed by nanobots into pure energy, not goose. I think of the goose as a kind of blood for the reapers.

Sheps energyform is either used

 

-to create an AI (the new Controller of the Reapers) or

-is emmitted as an ernergy wave to alter organic and synthetic life on an molecular basis, so that there is only the orgthetic lifeform remaining.

 

Interesting, how the DNA of a human is enough to combine synthetic life with all organic life in the galaxy, which is different as the stars in it self. The crucible is in fact a hell of a genetic miracle machine.

 

Why it didn't work in the past, well no other cycle ever came that far, although there is no hint or proof, that there hasn't been a united galaxy in a previous cycle fighting for survival against the reapers. It was shepards credit to unite and rally the galaxy, making him/her the right and only choice for such a decission/sacrifice.

 

But any "good" ending you choose, is just an temporarily solution to the problem. Why?

 

Destroy = The Harvest Solution is gone, so the Synthetic Extinction Problem, which the Catalyst was created in the first place will come uo again, eventually. Why? Because we like to forget things. Hell there are wars and crimes going on on this World right now an many people intend to forget it, just because it isn't on the news anymore. Unlikely the Individuals in the MEU would've lost such an behaviour.

 

Control might trigger an xeno- or better synthopobic reaction within the organic society someday, if the evolution or technical advancements put them on a reaper similar level, which is likely to come sooner, now that they are our "friends" and protectors.

 

Even the synthetic Ending means no peace forever. Why? How do you want to combine logic and emotion? Synthetic are just logically calculating, organics on the other hand have a logical awareness but will mostly act through emotion. The greatest strength is also the greatest weakness. Now that the Reapers have got access to emotions, otherwise the synthesis wouldn't make sense, they not only understand organic life, but will surely life the same way. That means, someday the come to realize, that they are the strongest. If you look at it in a darwinistic kind of way, then evolution in life means progress through conflict, and there only the strong survive. So synthesis imho simply changes the threat of organic/synthetic war with a simple civil war of the greenish orgthethics.

 

So all 3 choices bear their pro's and con's.

 

And to counter the fact, why i spend 5 years in this game for such an ending, well thank BW it's not the first time.

 

Just look at KotOR 1, 2 Drew Karpyshyns Novel Revan, or SWtOR and the final Fate of the Heroes there. I loved these games (except the latter), but seeing or reading how Revan, Meetra Surik (the Exciled), T3-M4 or HK-47 ended up made me rethink of why i spend so much effort in it. OK, they all died for a greater good or to interest the masses to spend their credits into the next game of the series, but the all faded away seemingly unknown to the rest.

 

Here BW lets the Hero/Heroine have a final decission, which will never be forgotten and has an tremendous impact on the shaping of the comming galaxy.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before (not in this thread but maybe somewhere else), but if you choose the destroy option (enough EMS presumed) the breathing scene takes place in ruins and remains of concrete. I am not talkin primarily about the IT, but it is quite unlikely, that the detonation blast from the red tube threw him right away into the conduit again, so that he might be safe on earth, or was it even the catalyst maybe, the last good deed for the hero/heroine?

 

So to say, if it's unlikely that he flew right back to his buddy marauder shields, he's never left london at all. But who pulled the trigger then? Someone has to be physically on the citadel and make a decission. Otherwise non of the endings could have ever happend, except for the continuation of the harvest. Or it is just in shepards head and the trigger is executed telepathically.

 

And since when do the council or terminus guys know how to fix a mass relay? Where there blueprints next to the crucible patterns?

The relays are not destroys via overload or a kinetic impact, as seen in arrival DLC, but more likely a kind of self shut down. The reapers build them, right?

Well their security self shut down just reacts like this: "You were smart enough to beat us and end the cycles, well then you are surely advanced enough to build your own relays, have a nice day."

 

Apropos IT, i just finished ME 1 and came to realize, that there might have been some kind of first indoctrination attempt by Sovereign, right before the final fight, when he turns Saren's corpse. You can see the edge of the screen https://www.youtube....h?v=Ho5-LrQqqHE shivering, similar to the dream sequences or the encounter with TIM and Anderson on the Crucible.

 

Any Indoctrination before doesn't make sense, because on Ilos Vigil called his Bones algorhythm to scan Shep and the Crew, stating that, "well Virgil, they are not dead, but they aren't indoctrinated either." And i am pretty sure they're not just only looking into the eyes.

 

Harbingers red beam could never be a destructive one, because they slice through battleships like butter. Indoctrination is impeneted via energy fields, isn't it? Why not let this beam be of minininimal destructive power but maximized and concentrated brainwash power?

 

Looking foreward to any additions, complaints or enlightments.

A few pointers for you.

 

I won't preach like god as far as your spelling et al is concerned, I will only say here's some advice.

 

you should search out Prettz Zells stuff on you tube.  Also..theres a vid called The problem of Choice by Jarrod L which is brilliant.

Open your mind.  See you on the other side.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=6_RGX1ujGUU



#427
Torgette

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Looking foreward to any additions, complaints or enlightments.

 

Yes there are pros and cons to all of the endings, it isn't a good vs. bad decision process and all of the choices require a leap of faith that any of it will work. At the end of the day the Catalyst was not designed to create peace, it was simply designed to find a solution to a problem. Similarly the Crucible was not designed to create peace, it was also simply designed to stop a problem for organics. How we choose what's the best path is completely subjective really, and nothing about our choice can last forever anyways. Personally I go with destroy because I want the milky way to build its own future, it's been 1 billion years since that was possible - if it ends in disaster then the reapers were simply fighting a futile war regardless (aka: it is what it is). Hell for all we know there's a much bigger enemy that could easily devour the reapers making all 3 endings a moot point, the apex race was only the apex of the milky way afterall.

 

Also welcome to BSN!

 

 

No guys, there's no religion in Mass Effect. Keep off the religious discussion. Banu.

 

I actually think more culture and religion in mass effect would be a good thing, we never hear any music made specifically by the turians or asari, we only get glimpses or passing mentions of religions, we only see alien art in dlc, etc. I mean I enjoy the rave music but surely that's not all there is.  :unsure:



#428
SwobyJ

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I was being snarky and sarcastic about BIoware's opposition to real life religious discussion.



#429
Pasquale1234

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Even the synthetic Ending means no peace forever. Why? How do you want to combine logic and emotion? Synthetic are just logically calculating, organics on the other hand have a logical awareness but will mostly act through emotion. The greatest strength is also the greatest weakness. Now that the Reapers have got access to emotions, otherwise the synthesis wouldn't make sense, they not only understand organic life, but will surely life the same way. That means, someday the come to realize, that they are the strongest. If you look at it in a darwinistic kind of way, then evolution in life means progress through conflict, and there only the strong survive. So synthesis imho simply changes the threat of organic/synthetic war with a simple civil war of the greenish orgthethics.


That's an interesting point - synthesis could potentially make the world an even more dangerous place.

I've never fully bought into the notion that synthetics would automatically set out to destroy organics. The only place we see any of this play out is in fiction, where they are heavily anthropomorphized and given contrived motives for attacking organics.
 

I was being snarky and sarcastic about BIoware's opposition to real life religious discussion.


Snark / sarcasm on the BSN? Say it isn't so... :lol:


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#430
Marolf

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First of all

 

Also welcome to BSN!

 

Thanks for the welcoming.

 

A few pointers for you.

 

I won't preach like god as far as your spelling et al is concerned, I will only say here's some advice.

 

you should search out Prettz Zells stuff on you tube.  Also..theres a vid called The problem of Choice by Jarrod L which is brilliant.

Open your mind.  See you on the other side.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=6_RGX1ujGUU

 

Actually I am thankful for him being honest.

 

Reading my post a second time, well it truly looks more like brainstorming, rather than a sophisticated statement.

It was my first forum post ever and i pushed myself while writing. That's pretty bad if you're not writing in your mothertongue and you don't use that language on a daily basis. Thanks to the Link you provided, which i found quite intriguing, i just realized, that words like "debunked and refuted" even exist.

Or maybe i am just too lazy to use a suitable translation program, instead using synonyms to express what i want to say, but that obviously went wrong.

 

But actually i am not looking for excuses, I got the message and I'm trying to do better next time, promise.

 

I posted on this thread, because it was opened merely 2 weeks ago. And as far as i remember, the original question was: "Is the final sequence, or maybe the whole game just a dream?", wasn't? As God already stated, this information has already gone through numerous threads, forums, posts, tweets and so on for years now. But Is there a final and general excepted solution to it? I don't think so. And as long as we're not capable of telepathy, we might never know why the storywriters really created the end just like they did.

 

The "Destroy" option seems like the best solution for the galaxy to form it's future freely again and likely seems the most fitting ending canonically. Especially if ME4 really has no connection to the other parts and takes place, dunno, decades, centuries after the Reaper Incursions. There would be no need for exploration, if you have the biggest and omniscient Reapers as allies around you (via control or synthesis). In all those circles, they're supposed to have been everywhere and they share their knowledge.

 

But on the other hand, many Capital Planets like Earth, Thessia, or others were attacked and badly damaged, the populations heavily decreased, infrastructures and industry centres devastated. In space, all mass relays are damaged, offline and the fleets are only capable of FTL travel, which means they are trapped In-System.

 

So similar to the cycles before, we have an isolation of the planetary systems, each one struggeling to survive.

I simply can't get warm with the idea, that they simply rebuild everything in a matter of years, although never having built a mass relay on their own. (still Destroy option)

It might take very long time, but as the stargazer said, the shepard stories happened long long ago.


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#431
Torgette

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I was being snarky and sarcastic about BIoware's opposition to real life religious discussion.

 

I think we're safe here...  :ph34r:


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#432
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I was being snarky and sarcastic about BIoware's opposition to real life religious discussion.

 

Yeah, it's almost as silly as giving me warnings when I say "****" or "****", even though their own games do. Like the forums live in a completely different, family friendly world.

 

Same with religion. They're always talking about some aspect of it in games.


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#433
SilJeff

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So, with all the religious undercurrent flowing throughout the series, we reach the end, and the Normandy crashes on the jungle planet, clearly giving the Adam and Eve allusion. Shepard was on the Citadel represented the Tree of Knowledge, and the Catalyst represented the Serpent. Pick destroy and we follow God's Will. Pick Synthesis and we have our eyes opened by the Serpent. Pick Control, and Shepard becomes the Serpent and nothing changes. Really? Was it that hard to figure out? Reaper tech was the "fruit we were not supposed to eat". Like I said, a child could have written this.

 

The ending still left you feeling kicked in the gut.

 

Then in DAI they do the religious savior thing again.

 

Please, let's not do this again in ME: Next?

 

If Mass Effect is a giant Bible reference, I guess the cycles are the "10 Plagues of Egypt"?



#434
SwobyJ

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Mass Effect is a giant Everything reference.



#435
teh DRUMPf!!

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I was being snarky and sarcastic about BIoware's opposition to real life religious discussion.

 

That's funny. Thing 3 deleted a post of mine ITT for that reason.


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#436
SwobyJ

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That's funny. Thing 3 deleted a post of mine ITT for that reason.

 

I was prepared for it for myself at least.



#437
Guest_ruul_*

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you should search out Prettz Zells stuff on you tube. 

 

I like this one and this one


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#438
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I like this one and this one

 

I don't know what to think still, but those are very amusing. Good production.



#439
shodiswe

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It was a "game"..... happy now?


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#440
Guest_ruul_*

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I don't know what to think still, but those are very amusing. Good production.

 

The black square where the kid was can be seen in game without a flycam. As soon as you can move around in the first level, look to your right, and you can see the park where the kid was is unloaded from the game, but everything else wasn't changed.



#441
sH0tgUn jUliA

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That rooftop. Did you notice there was no access to the roof either? How did the kid get there? Oh, it wasn't there in the first place!

 

Then let's not forget The Vent Boy:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=pthfn816-D4

 

Seriously. How did he get there? Things were done for gratuitous feels, and the way they were done didn't make any sense.

 

Who the f*** is Major Coates? Why does he deserve a slide and an action scene in the ending? No one even cared about Major Coates. Was he the idea of someone's boss? Or was he someone's boss in the company? I really can't think of any other reason for him getting that much exposure.

 

All of the glitches in the game in combination with that ending led one to resort to Indoctrination Theory just to try and make sense of the game itself.


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#442
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I really can't think of any other reason for him getting that much exposure.

 

Seriously. I get Coates in the final shuttle finale, but they can't even strain themselves to give more than hologram farewells of ME2 squadmates. Like I'm supposed to give a f*ck about this guy.

 

It's almost as bad as Allers taking Zaeed's quarters.

 

 

But if he is some kind of indoctrinated element screwing with our heads, it might all be worth it. I love a twist. But they can't even give answers on that. A twist is worthless if you don't reveal it. It just turns out he's seemingly normal and shows up in the Destroy slide.


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#443
Vazgen

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Major Coates is that sniper from ME3 teaser. You can see the kid there too ;)

Spoiler


#444
sH0tgUn jUliA

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So we're supposed to care about him because of the trailer? Really? And he gets an entire 15 seconds on screen in the entire game? That's like just putting in a guy named Wierzbowski so someone can shout the name because it sounds cool. Remember in Aliens when Hicks shouted "Wierzbowski! Wierzbowski!" Well, searching through the entire film we see Wierzbowski on camera for a grand total of 5 seconds and they're not even contiguous. He's there because of the cool name trope.

 

This doesn't apply to Coates. Or the kid.

 

Bad Writing Theory!


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#445
Vazgen

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So we're supposed to care about him because of the trailer? Really? And he gets an entire 15 seconds on screen in the entire game? That's like just putting in a guy named Wierzbowski so someone can shout the name because it sounds cool. Remember in Aliens when Hicks shouted "Wierzbowski! Wierzbowski!" Well, searching through the entire film we see Wierzbowski on camera for a grand total of 5 seconds and they're not even contiguous. He's there because of the cool name trope.

 

This doesn't apply to Coates. Or the kid.

 

Bad Writing Theory!

Hey, I'm not saying it makes perfect sense. Just that he was not a completely random dude :) I found it kinda neat that they used this guy in the game.



#446
Sion1138

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Hey, I'm not saying it makes perfect sense. Just that he was not a completely random dude :) I found it kinda neat that they used this guy in the game.

 

I was annoyed at that guy.

 

I was of the opinion that no one new should have been brought in that late in the game.



#447
Vazgen

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I was annoyed at that guy.

I was of the opinion that no one new should have been brought in that late in the game.

I was annoyed as well. But then I heard him talking with Anderson about how he was in Big Ben and remembered the teaser :) Thought it was neat. I still think that he should not have been introduced in any way more than a e-mail but I'm not annoyed at him anymore ;)

#448
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I dislike so much about Earth.. so he's only a very small part of my complaints.

 

 

There's ending haters, but I'm not one of them. lol. Just an Earth hater. A shitty finale for an epic series. They should be embarassed. And wake up with cold sweats from time to time asking themselves "How could we have done that better?" :D



#449
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All of the glitches in the game in combination with that ending led one to resort to Indoctrination Theory just to try and make sense of the game itself.

I'm open minded. I never actually screamed bad writing and plot holes whenever something didn't make sense or was poorly explained. Instead, I looked for an explanation through the information in the game. Not information I made up. I was being constructive.

 

The answers are there if you look for them.



#450
Ithurael

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Instead, I looked for an explanation through the information in the game. Not information I made up. I was being constructive.

 

 

Really? Because methinks the underlined portion of that statement is not true. Although...it could be true if it was information someone ELSE made up and you believed it...

 

 

The answers are there if you look for them.

 

Only with this are the answers there.

 

Besides..IT is fannon. The lore - as we know and understand it - does not support it. Not even implicitly. :)

 

Though...you could always do what this guy does...something tells me you will do something like that regardless.

 

Or...if you don't like what I say and/or the lore based facts I provide...you can always put me on ignore ;)