467 réponses à ce sujet

[Cknarf]

Every time I see this thread, I just think...

[themikefest]

Nope. The next game has no connection to Shepard, whatsoever. Even takes place in a different galaxy. 

Nothing has been confirmed of where the next game takes place

[Excella Gionne]

Nothing has been confirmed of where the next game takes place

True. In a way, I'm hoping it's still in the same universe, but in a way I don't want that to happen. It's sort of a love-hate relationship at the moment. If only ME did not take the trilogy route like DA(originally meant to be a trilogy)it would have been better. I would love to play as another race besides human, and next ME would be more interesting if it does not start from the point where humans are proving themselves to join the other races in galactic power. I would like for it to start a point where the prejudice is not a big thing. It opens many doors, but for the love of god, don't let it be another DA:I where I travel to places to collect stuff.

[Uncle Jo]

This topic will never die...

 

Any one who still believes in IT after the first gigantic slap the EC was (the second being the perma ban from the forum discussions), has some problems to cope with the endings reality. BW used the IT as flame shield during the epic sh*storm they rightly got, then banned it when things calmed down.

 

Still way cooler than: Blue, Red or Green? Pick up one of them and die!

[Kabooooom]

I watched this whole mess unfold since day one. Here's the deal, just the straight facts: Bioware initially thought of an ending where Shep was indoctrinated - they have admitted as much. HOWEVER, they changed their mind, for gameplay and story reasons.

The initial ending they released was some hastily compiled Adam and Eve BS, not Indoctrination. They did, however, intend for the ending sequence to feel surreal and dreamlike. Perhaps that is a remnant of what was originally an indoctrination idea, but probably not. Possibly, they simply adopted ideas from earlier brainstorming sessions and kept ones they liked.

They deliberately used familiar design - the Citadel tower control room is similar to TIM's chair room, straight down to the circle on the floor, the Starchild decision room does appear superficially similar to the area immediately surrounding the conduit beam, it is in an area seemingly exposed to space. Even the beam run itself was reminiscent of the Conduit run from ME1. All of this was deliberately chosen. Furthermore, they deliberately chose the Starchild to represent the child Shep couldn't save, indicating that the Reapers had access to his mind, possibly in an attempt to appear sympathetic or to manipulate.

That was, quite clearly, deliberate. To say otherwise is delusional. BUT that has nothing to do with IT. All it demonstrates is that they intended for the ending to appear surreal and for the player to sympathize with the Starchild. Why? Because shortly thereafter they present a favorable choice which is directly contrary to the stated goal of the entire trilogy.

They wanted to put in a TWIST, not put in IT.

However, they did a terrible job of orchestrating it and the deliberately dreamlike ending sequence combined with the contrary and counterintuitive ending choices made a large faction of players actually suspect it was an indoctrination attempt.

In the aftermath of the ending fiasco, Bioware deliberately made ambiguous twitter posts regarding IT, as cited by another forumite earlier in this thread. Why? To fuel the fires of discussion and debate, obviously. All publicity is good publicity, even seemingly negative publicity.

Then, they released the Extended Cut to underscore that they did not intend for IT. Afterwards, they made a public statement that "IT is a legitimate interpretation" to further be ambiguous and allow people to believe what they want to believe with regards to the ending. It is clear, however, that they did not intend it as a legitimate interpretation and that this is public relations BS. Shortly thereafter, they banned discussion of IT on these forums because they were tired of people's **** and idiotic discussions. I dont blame them, but it was yet another nail in IT's coffin.

That was, in a general summary, the overall sequence of events and Bioware's stance from before the game was even released until after the ending fiasco had died down.

To me, it is clear that the ending sequence is deliberately dreamlike, and that the Reapers are attempting to deliberately influence Shep to pick a choice that they find favorable and that doesn't result in their absolute destruction. They are probably attempting to do this precisely because they CAN'T indoctrinate him, or at least not that fast. And that's the "twist". The correct choice, to the Reapers, is either synthesis or control, with synthesis being preferable. But it would be a task to convince Shep of this, who was dead set on their destruction, and they only have minutes to convince him. They best way to do so is to appear sympathetic and convincing, but they clearly can't force his hand.

[themikefest]

You don't really die in the destroy ending, unless you had a really low EMS score. 

Shepard will die if ems is below 3100 when picking destroy

[prosthetic soul]

No OP, it wasn't. 

 

Spoiler

It was all a nightmare

[Iakus]

Shepard will die if ems is below 3100 when picking destroy

And if it's over it's hinted that Shepard survives.  There is no confirmation, just permission to headcanon.

[NeonFlux117]

IT is so 2012. 

[Uncle Jo]

This is one of the reasons the fans concerns were never addressed. Most of them couldn't even come up with a constructive argument.

 

You don't really die in the destroy ending, unless you had a really low EMS score. 

Yeah, I know, I know... I still prefer to think Shep simply died after shooting the tube. My mind couldn't cope with so much BS and space magic all at once. 

 

And the poster below my first comment did sum it up pretty nicely imo. BW actually toyed with the idea before dropping it. 

[Uncle Jo]

Whatever. Point is, it's not as simple as pick a color and die. In the original game without the Extended Cut, it's actually 4000 EMS (if Anderson alive), else 5000 EMS (let TIM shoot him). The Extended Cut wasn't part of the original game. 

 

I guess what I meant to say was if your EMS score wasn't high enough to unlock the ending where Shepard lives, then he does die. 

No, it was just like that: pick up a color and die. Even more so pre EC.

 

You become as good as no explanation from a character coming out of nowhere, self proclaiming itself as the Reaper boss, telling you that if the Reapers don't kill you every 50,000 years you'd end up killed off by your own robots. ALL of us. It is inevitable. Organics and robots can't coexist. Never. He knows it because reasons. So deal with it, screw the galaxy up in red, blue or green and just die already.

[AnakinSkywalker2]

I have always only believed in certain aspects of the IT. In my headcanon The Starchild was really Harbinger trying to deceive Shepard in those final moments. If he would have chosen Control, Harbinger would have completed his indoctrination of Shepard, if he chose Synthesis he would have woke up and The Reapers would have assimilated everyone, and by choosing destroy with a high ems Shepard would have past the test, woke up, and finished the fight conventionally. That is how I pretend it ends after each choice. I feel as tho the "Crucible" was just a test.

[WizzyWarlock]

No, it was just like that: pick up a color and die. Even more so pre EC.
 
You become as good as no explanation from a character coming out of nowhere, self proclaiming itself as the Reaper boss, telling you that if the Reapers don't kill you every 50,000 years you'd end up killed off by your own robots. ALL of us. It is inevitable. Organics and robots can't coexist. Never. He knows it because reasons. So deal with it, screw the galaxy up in red, blue or green and just die already.

All I take from the ending is that AI can never understand the meaning of life. The Reapers, which are machines (yeah yeah, they have organic goop in them, whatever), 'harvest' everyone every 50,000 years, because if they don't other machines will kill us. The problem is, they think by turning us into human goop they're saving our lives from these other machines, which of course they're not.

People say that they're taking the combined intelligence of the race they harvest, but I've never seen any proof of that. All Reapers have identical goals and speak in exactly the same way, none of them have personality. So all I see them doing is taking the DNA from the different races and storing it inside a new Reaper, thinking the DNA is actual life and by storing it they're saving us. Which of course they aren't.

So choose Destroy. You kill all machines and the cycle ends. It may or may not start up again in the future, I'm putting my money on it not.

[angol fear]

All I take from the ending is that AI can never understand the meaning of life. The Reapers, which are machines (yeah yeah, they have organic goop in them, whatever), 'harvest' everyone every 50,000 years, because if they don't other machines will kill us. The problem is, they think by turning us into human goop they're saving our lives from these other machines, which of course they're not.

People say that they're taking the combined intelligence of the race they harvest, but I've never seen any proof of that. All Reapers have identical goals and speak in exactly the same way, none of them have personality. So all I see them doing is taking the DNA from the different races and storing it inside a new Reaper, thinking the DNA is actual life and by storing it they're saving us. Which of course they aren't.

So choose Destroy. You kill all machines and the cycle ends. It may or may not start up again in the future, I'm putting my money on it not.

 

Sovereign and Harbinger are the same? Then why some people like Sovereign and dislike Harbinger?

[fraggle]

People say that they're taking the combined intelligence of the race they harvest, but I've never seen any proof of that. All Reapers have identical goals and speak in exactly the same way, none of them have personality. So all I see them doing is taking the DNA from the different races and storing it inside a new Reaper, thinking the DNA is actual life and by storing it they're saving us. Which of course they aren't.

 

The identical goals are only because they are all controlled by the same entity, the Catalyst.

 

The thing is, we don't really know if their identity does not actually represent the species that was harvested for a Reaper. Take Harbinger for example. He was made of Leviathans, and they were full of themselves, just like Harbinger is. It could of course be coincidence, but even the Protheans were a proud species and talked much lesser about their other cycle species.

 

I think the way in which the Catalyst chose to preserve life doesn't really matter, as long as it does. And by storing the knowledge and essence of a species in a Reaper it achieved its goal.

[wright1978]

And if it's over it's hinted that Shepard survives.  There is no confirmation, just permission to headcanon.

 

Otherwise known as Bioware trolling players.

[Torgette]

Otherwise known as Bioware trolling players.

 

I think people may be overthinking that teaser, it would be trolling if Shepard never breathed.

[Iakus]

I think people may be overthinking that teaser, it would be trolling if Shepard never breathed.

It's Bioware trolling because in a DLC meant to add "clarity and closure" it's the exact same freaking scene with zero elaboration.

 

But they saw fit to add confirmation that EDI and the geth die.  But Shep living.  Nope.  Problem?  :trollface::

[God]

It's Bioware trolling because in a DLC meant to add "clarity and closure" it's the exact same freaking scene with zero elaboration.

 

But they saw fit to add confirmation that EDI and the geth die.  But Shep living.  Nope.  Problem?  :trollface::

 

It doesn't need elaboration or closure. The scene is clear enough. I don't need BW to hold my hand. Why do you? You're just being negative for pettiness' sake at this point. BW didn't try to troll you. They left Shepard's fate up to the player. If you want him to live, he lives. But you seem to want him dead, considering how much you go on about how he 'died'. 

[God]

Otherwise known as Bioware trolling players.

 

How is BW saying 'Shepard's final fate is yours to come up with' a bad thing? Or a troll action?

 

I'm fine, because it lets me think up the future I want for him.