Well actually, the Reapers are an embodiment of all-powerful AI, and they drive the conflict in every game.
So the organic/synthetic thing was in every game.
Was it all a dream?
Débuté par
Isichar
, mai 08 2015 12:18
#126
Posté 12 mai 2015 - 11:15
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
- SilJeff et SwobyJ aiment ceci
Retour en haut
#128
Posté 12 mai 2015 - 11:18
dreamgazer
-
- Members
- 15 752 messages
- teh DRUMPf!!, SilJeff et Vazgen aiment ceci
#129
Posté 12 mai 2015 - 11:18
fraggle
-
- Members
- 1 686 messages
Okay, but that's just speculation. There is nothing in the story to suggest that. How would the Crucible make the Bratalyst sentient? The device was always described as simply a tool to defeat the Reapers, and the people who designed it had no knowledge of the Bratalyst that I recall (which tends to happen when writers toss in a god character at the end on a whim). Plus Bratalyst speaks with a knowledge and understanding of past events as if it had lived through them, not as some being that had just woken up for the first time.
Well if we look at EC, the Catalyst states that a new solution is needed. When Shepard asks why it helps him/her, it says "you have altered the variables" and that the Crucible has changed it, created new possibilities. So I'm not sure the Catalyst is sentient, the Crucible seems to be the reason it suggests the new solutions, like some reprogramming. What makes you think it is sentient?
Yes, the Crucible is a device to deal with the Reapers, but you might remember Vendetta, the VI on Thessia/Cronos? It knew of the Catalyst (maybe not exactly what it is or what it does, but it knows it's the Citadel, which is close enough), and even states that older civilizations found a way to incorporate the Catalyst to make it work with the Crucible, and the plans for that were passed down ever since in each cycle.
I'm not really a fan of "God character". The Catalyst is no God. It is simply a tool as well, one that has a task. It does not act out of its own ambitions, but acts within the task it was given by the Leviathans.
What do you mean by "woken up for the first time"? It wasn't only woken up in the current cycle, it witnessed everything since it was created. If that's what you mean 
#130
Posté 12 mai 2015 - 11:26
voteDC
-
- Members
- 2 538 messages
Preferences, but for me it's the other way around. Having them as ultimate big bad makes them more boring imo, but it made them more intriguing for me after the Catalyst was revealed. It was a refreshing concept in a video game.
For me the conversation with Sovereign should have been what defined the Reapers throughout the series. It didn't care about us anymore than we would care about a fly buzzing around our head. Annoying but in the end inconsequential.
Revealing their origins brought them down to our level, for want of a better word it humanised them. And that for me was the biggest mistake Bioware made with them.
- DeathScepter et wright1978 aiment ceci
#131
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 12:48
Paulomedi
-
- Members
- 262 messages
#132
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 01:34
Iakus
-
- Members
- 30 349 messages
Well actually, the Reapers are an embodiment of all-powerful AI, and they drive the conflict in every game.
So the organic/synthetic thing was in every game.
Except, you know, the Reapers wanna kill the geth too...
- DeathScepter aime ceci
#133
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 01:52
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
I think I just heard the worst interpretation of the endings ever... the "afterlife scenario". I stumbled upon a video, but won't bother linking it.
Apparently Shepard dies right before you elevate to speak to the Starkid..when Hackett is asking you to use the controls. All of those choices at the end are just in Shepard's head, and only for him to have some peace of mind (also the Starkid is all in his head too). AND to top it off, the Reapers are still ravishing everything and the Crucible never worked.
This one actually disturbs me. Not just because of the Reapers ravishing everything still, but the idea that Bioware would include some ****** religious/afterlife scenario in their game (I happen to like spirituality/religion in general, but I hate it here).
#134
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:10
voteDC
-
- Members
- 2 538 messages
Except, you know, the Reapers wanna kill the geth too...
I wonder how many of the organic/synthetic conflicts the Reapers wanted to stop were in fact started by them.
After all the Geth were not actively hostile until Sovereign made them so.
#135
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:14
themikefest
-
- Members
- 21 614 messages
I wonder how many of the organic/synthetic conflicts the Reapers wanted to stop were in fact started by them.
After all the Geth were not actively hostile until Sovereign made them so.
I like to hear the catalyst's answer if Shepard were able to mention he/she was able to get peace between the geth and Quarians. Of course that can't be asked in a default playthrough since peace can't be acheived. Than again ME3 is a standalone game. Its the best place to start playing a trilogy
#136
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:21
God
-
- Members
- 2 432 messages
Except, you know, the Reapers wanna kill the geth too...
That's a non sequiter. The Reapers killing Geth does not negate that the core of the series is organic vs hybrid.
#137
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:24
GalacticWolf5
-
- Members
- 732 messages
I wonder how many of the organic/synthetic conflicts the Reapers wanted to stop were in fact started by them.
After all the Geth were not actively hostile until Sovereign made them so.
*cough*Morning War*cough*
#138
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:27
GalacticWolf5
-
- Members
- 732 messages
I like to hear the catalyst's answer if Shepard were able to mention he/she was able to get peace between the geth and Quarians.
It would say that the peace won't last. Lasting peace between Organics and Synthetics is impossible without full understanding of each other (which is achieved in Synthesis). There will always be conflict, small or big, between Organics and Synthetics.
- God aime ceci
#139
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:28
Iakus
-
- Members
- 30 349 messages
*cough*Morning War*cough*
You mean the war the quarians started, and the geth didn't wipe them out?
- voteDC aime ceci
#140
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:29
Iakus
-
- Members
- 30 349 messages
It would say that the peace won't last. Lasting peace between Organics and Synthetics is impossible without full understanding of each other (which is achieved in Synthesis). There will always be conflict, small or big, between Organics and Synthetics.
And between organics and organics
And synthetics and synthetics.
- wright1978 et Winterking aiment ceci
#141
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:30
voteDC
-
- Members
- 2 538 messages
*cough*Morning War*cough*
The Geth acted to defend themselves, just as any organic race would. Then when the Quarians were no longer an active threat, stopped.
Geth in the case of the morning war were not the aggressors.
- SilJeff aime ceci
#142
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:34
themikefest
-
- Members
- 21 614 messages
It would say that the peace won't last. Lasting peace between Organics and Synthetics is impossible without full understanding of each other (which is achieved in Synthesis). There will always be conflict, small or big, between Organics and Synthetics.
I like to hear that from the catalyst itself.
You will never know if the peace is still ongoing after you're dead.
#143
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:40
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
Who cares if there's perpetual conflict with synthetics. You just built the Crucible. It's an "I Win" button. The worst that can happen is rebuild, then wait for the next conflict.
#144
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:44
GalacticWolf5
-
- Members
- 732 messages
You mean the war the quarians started, and the geth didn't wipe them out?
Yes, the war that involved Organics and Synthetics in conflict. The same kind of conflict that the Catalyst has to solve.
- God aime ceci
#145
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:45
GalacticWolf5
-
- Members
- 732 messages
The Geth acted to defend themselves, just as any organic race would. Then when the Quarians were no longer an active threat, stopped.
Geth in the case of the morning war were not the aggressors.
And? It's still Organic/Synthetic conflict.
#146
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:45
GalacticWolf5
-
- Members
- 732 messages
And between organics and organics
And synthetics and synthetics.
Indeed.
#147
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:47
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
It's funny how they try to hint that conflict is bad....and that we need a solution for true peace. This only works on idealists.
Conflict is good.
#148
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:51
GalacticWolf5
-
- Members
- 732 messages
It does say that conflict always comes back. Leviathan does too.I like to hear that from the catalyst itself.
You will never know if the peace is still ongoing after you're dead.
Countless cycles have proven it.
There will always be conflict between Organics and Synthetics, just like there will always be conflict between Organics and conflict between Synthetics. Conflict is inevitable.
EDIT: The Catalyst is part of the very problem it's trying to solve, yet it doesn't realize it because it's the 'solution' to the conflict.
#149
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:53
themikefest
-
- Members
- 21 614 messages
It does say that conflict always comes back. Leviathan does too.
Countless cycles have proven it.
There will always be conflict between Organics and Synthetics, just like there will always be conflict between Organics and between Synthetics. Conflict is inevitable.
You don't know that after you're dead.
At any time was there peace between the robots and organics before our cycle?
#150
Posté 13 mai 2015 - 02:54
Coyotebay
-
- Members
- 190 messages
Well if we look at EC, the Catalyst states that a new solution is needed. When Shepard asks why it helps him/her, it says "you have altered the variables" and that the Crucible has changed it, created new possibilities. So I'm not sure the Catalyst is sentient, the Crucible seems to be the reason it suggests the new solutions, like some reprogramming. What makes you think it is sentient?
Yes, the Crucible is a device to deal with the Reapers, but you might remember Vendetta, the VI on Thessia/Cronos? It knew of the Catalyst (maybe not exactly what it is or what it does, but it knows it's the Citadel, which is close enough), and even states that older civilizations found a way to incorporate the Catalyst to make it work with the Crucible, and the plans for that were passed down ever since in each cycle.
I'm not really a fan of "God character". The Catalyst is no God. It is simply a tool as well, one that has a task. It does not act out of its own ambitions, but acts within the task it was given by the Leviathans.
What do you mean by "woken up for the first time"? It wasn't only woken up in the current cycle, it witnessed everything since it was created. If that's what you mean
By "woken up" I just meant becoming sentient, self-aware. If it hadn't been sentient all along then it wouldn't have memories the way we understand them, with thoughts and feelings attached. It would just be old data archives. I still think it has always been self-aware, being an AI that advanced. Maybe it has been limited by the directive hard-coded into it, but I think it has always been capable of making choices. Deciding that organics had somehow crossed a threshold by successfully building the crucible seems an opinion that a self-aware mind would come up with, not merely an advanced computer following intructions.
