467 réponses à ce sujet

[GalacticWolf5]

At any time was there peace between the robots and organics before our cycle?

Lasting peace? No, because otherwise the Catalyst would've stopped harvesting. It's purpose would be fulfilled.

[themikefest]

No, because otherwise the Catalyst would've stopped harvesting. It's purpose would be fulfilled.

There you go. The endings would not be needed if Shepard was able to prove to the catalyst that peace was achieved between the geth and Quarians. But since ME3 is a standalone game and the best place to start playing a trilogy, peace cannot be achieved in a default playthrough

[GalacticWolf5]

There you go. The endings would not be needed if Shepard was able to prove to the catalyst that peace was achieved between the geth and Quarians. But since ME3 is a standalone game and the best place to start playing a trilogy, peace cannot be achieved in a default playthrough

That peace is not lasting peace tho. The Catalyst will continue harvesting.

(You quoted me while I edited my post)

[Iakus]

Indeed.

Guess we should just kill everyone.  Then there'd be peace.

[Coyotebay]

Synthetic vs organic conflict was not introduced in the last few minutes. It was there since ME1. It just wasn't in-your-face type of content and thus flew by a lot of players. 

 

The conflict between Reapers and organics wasn't a conflict at all, it was a genocide, based on the falsity that there would always be conflict between synthetics and organics, ergo, we are going to destroy you before that happens.  The other conflict was between the Quarians and the Geth, which wasn't really so much about synthetics and organics as it was about one people subjugating another.  That conflict would have occurred if the Geth happened to be simply another organic race.  In this case they happened to be synthetic.  The Quarian/Geth conflict was one of the major themes in the series, but the theme was not organic vs. syntheritc, it was about oppression vs. free will and self-determination.  It was a theme explored multiple times with the Rachni, and the Krogan, both organic races being subjugated or persecuted by other organic races.  The synthetic vs. organic argument also falls apart when you look at the fact that two of the three options for concluding the Quarian/Geth conflict include successfully destroying the Geth, and making peace with the Geth.  Both of these outcomes fly in the face of the Reaper argument that synthetics and organics will always come into a do-or-die conflict, which will always be won by synthetics.  Also, the Geth joining forces with organics to fight other synthetics (Reapers) kills the Reaper argument.  It's also an incredibly simplistic argument, as you could come up with a million scenarios where synthetic life prevails, synthetic life is destroyed, and oragnic and synthetic life co-exist.  I will always subscribe to the last one, because there are just an infinite number of complex variables with organic life evolving with advances in technology as well as synthetic life, not to mention the integration of organic and synthetic cultures/societies, the intermingling of which would make a simple "Us versus Them" situation highly unlikely.

[themikefest]

That peace is not lasting peace tho. The Catalyst will continue harvesting.

(You quoted me while I edited my post)

It has no way of knowing that. If this is the first time that peace has been achieved between the robots and organics, it would have no way of knowing it won't last. If it continues the harvest the peace won't last since the reapers have a habit of controlling the robots to do their bidding. It seems they instigate a lot of the conflict. 

[voteDC]

And? It's still Organic/Synthetic conflict.

Conflict that organics started and that synthetics chose not to pursue to the end the Catalyst said was inevitable.

The Morning War is evidence against the argument that synthetics will always chose to wipe out their creators. Hell when we are in the Geth consensus we see that they acted to protect those quarians who were not hostile toward them.

[God]

Guess we should just kill everyone.  Then there'd be peace.

 

Not an altogether bad idea. 

[God]

It has no way of knowing that. If this is the first time that peace has been achieved between the robots and organics, it would have no way of knowing it will last. If it continues the harvest the peace won't last since the reapers have a habit of controlling the robots to do their bidding. It seems they instigate a lot of the conflict. 

 

The issue is, you're very heavily stacked on the side of how things will turn out. Any other conflict will prove the Catalyst right.

 

There are only four solutions to the Organic/Synthetic conflict issue:

 

1) Synthesis or equivalent tech singularity that permanently creates a new form of life that negates the distinction between organic and synthetic. It is the only realistic solution that permanently solves the problem of Organic and Synthetic conflicts.

 

2) Don't ever create synthetics (given the nature of the universe, I actually wonder why this isn't more of an option), though much like the Reapers themselves, this is more of a stop-gap.

 

3) Continue the Reaper cycle, which in itself only delays the conflict without actually settling or resolving it.

 

4) Exterminate all life, which is of course, cross-purpose to the Catalysts mandate of preserving life.

 

Peace is not a solution. It's a temporary fast for an eternal problem (sans the given options.) 

[themikefest]

Or have the catalyst see that peace was achieved and stops the harvest, but gives a warning that if the peace falters, it will be back with its toys to continue the harvest

[God]

Or have the catalyst see that peace was achieved and stops the harvest, but gives a warning that if the peace falters, it will be back with its toys to continue the harvest

 

One instance of temporary alliance does not disprove the Catalysts assertion.

 

The Catalyst never says that organics and synthetics can't work together.

 

It states that there will never be permanent peace between either of them. 

 

All you're doing is saying 'hey look, we're holding hands right now!' 

 

Do you really think it's going to work long-term? I'd rather go ahead and solve the issue via synthesis.

[GalacticWolf5]

Or have the catalyst see that peace was achieved and stops the harvest, but gives a warning that if the peace falters, it will be back with its toys to continue the harvest

The peace that we get between the Geth and the Quarians is not lasting because its not achieved with Synthesis. Yes, peace of this kind must have happened in previous cycles, but it was temporary. The Catalyst wants LASTING PEACE. I really don't get why you can't understand such a simple concept.

[themikefest]

If the peace lasts for my lifetime then i'm content. Beyond that, I don't know. The catalyst has no way of knowing it won't last especially since it hasn't been achieved until this cycle. 

 

If someone wants to pick synthesis, more power to them. I pick destroy no matter what

[themikefest]

The peace that we get between the Geth and the Quarians is not lasting because its not achieved with Synthesis. Yes, peace of this kind must have happened in previous cycles, but it was temporary. The Catalyst wants LASTING PEACE. I really don't get why you can't understand such a simple concept.

 Fortunately I don't pick that green crap. So much for the peace. Destroy will have to do. I understand it wants the green crap, but I understand that its crap and I pick destroy. I don't get why you can't understand such a simple concept.

[themikefest]

That's not it's own definition of peace though. It wants to understand organics. Which it can only do in Synthesis.

 

My answer to that though: "**** off. I don't care about your needs. I'm here for my own reasons."

It can have whatever it wants after I shoot the tube.

[GalacticWolf5]

If the peace lasts for my lifetime then i'm content. Beyond that, I don't know. The catalyst has no way of knowing it won't last especially since it hasn't been achieved until this cycle.

Omg, I'm soooo done.

THE PEACE BETWEEN THE GETH AND QUARIANS WONT LAST BECAUSE SYNTHESIS ASNT BEEN ACHIEVED. THATS HOW THE CATALYST KNOWS IT WONT LAST. LASTING PEACE IS IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SYNTHESIS.

Im sorry for the caps, but thats all I can use because Im on mobile.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Conflict that organics started and that synthetics chose not to pursue to the end the Catalyst said was inevitable.

Neither of which contradict the Catalyst's point.

[God]

That's not it's own definition of peace though. It wants to understand organics. Which it can only do in Synthesis.

 

My answer to that though: "**** off. I don't care about your needs. I'm here for my own reasons."

 

That's very shallow and selfish. This being is trying to resolve an age old problem of the universe and you're showing a lot of short-sightedness to not take its rather lengthy perspective into account.

 

I don't like synthesis as its presented, but I entirely agree with it as a concept and solution. The Catalyst is absolutely right. If you want what you fight for to last, you'll take its viewpoint into account.

[themikefest]

Omg, I'm soooo done.

THE PEACE BETWEEN THE GETH AND QUARIANS WONT LAST BECAUSE SYNTHESIS ASNT BEEN ACHIEVED. THATS HOW THE CATALYST KNOWS IT WONT LAST. LASTING PEACE IS IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SYNTHESIS.

Im sorry for the caps, but thats all I can use because Im on mobile.

Like I've posted a couple of time.  I will never pick the green crap. I will destroy the thing and its toys. Its so much easier

[God]

That's the best part of destroy. "You don't know." And when a problem arises, you improvise. It's chaos, as the Catalyst says. Except to him, it's a bad thing.

 

Only worrywarts and computers wouldn't like the unknown. Some people feel the need to manage everything. People who are highly organized or have to plan their parties and road trips. And some fantasize about changing the rest of the world to boot. They're called "idealists". They just don't get the chance. These other ending choices are for them.

 

Rather than the narcisstic and short-sightedness of others hedonism who say 'damn it all' to the care and planning that goes into making things better for the long-term?

 

Yes, I think planning ahead and having order is much better than chaos. Because it is a bad thing if you leave it to its own devices.

[GalacticWolf5]

Fortunately I don't pick that green crap. So much for the peace. Destroy will have to do. I understand it wants the green crap, but I understand that its crap and I pick destroy. I don't get why you can't understand such a simple concept.

I dont chose it either. I never do. I pick Control.

And serious?You really need that attitude? Repeating what I said? And I do understand that your prefer Destroy, it's really easy to know.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I think I just heard the worst interpretation of the endings ever... the "afterlife scenario". I stumbled upon a video, but won't bother linking it.

 

Apparently Shepard dies right before you elevate to speak to the Starkid..when Hackett is asking you to use the controls. All of those choices at the end are just in Shepard's head, and only for him to have some peace of mind (also the Starkid is all in his head too). AND to top it off, the Reapers are still ravishing everything and the Crucible never worked.

 

 

This one actually disturbs me. Not just because of the Reapers ravishing everything still, but the idea that Bioware would include some ****** religious/afterlife scenario in their game (I happen to like spirituality/religion in general, but I hate it here).

 

Still better than IT.

 

Besides, we all know that Citadel DLC was the afterlife.   

[themikefest]

And serious?You really need that attitude? 

But its ok for you to say that to me? Seriously?