83 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackJesusBR]

You do realize that you do not need to give people full barrier all the time right?

 

I am able to juggle barrier, attack speed buff and Heal on Kill just fine in the heat of combat, and I'm not even that great.

 

The biggest problem is people that play classes that need to rush, as they get outside the radius and so lower effectiveness.

Yes I do... But sometimes me and other two get full barrier, and the other is getting the most of damage from enemies, so this one is low and I need to keep spamming to keep that up. Did try the heal hit and kill buff some matches, it did not seem to be thaaat good, but at least helps. I'm saying this happens on Perilous, on Threathening it seems fine to buff and barrier up.

[Ploidz]

Yes I do... But sometimes me and other two get full barrier, and the other is getting the most of damage from enemies, so this one is low and I need to keep spamming to keep that up. Did try the heal hit and kill buff some matches, it did not seem to be thaaat good, but at least helps. I'm saying this happens on Perilous, on Threathening it seems fine to buff and barrier up.

 

The heal on kill upgrade doesn't work. Bioware Luke said they will look into it on the stream yesterday. The way things are going for Virtuoso is people don't even want that buff on them because if someone lost HP you failed (/sarcasm for a earlier post where the guy didn't like seeing Virtuoso's using the song along with the defense song).

[kaileena_sands]

So guyss, I am pleased to report that I played a bit more of the virtuoso after reading some nice advice from the topic (thanks Ploid and iamchaos ) and I gotta say that he is as amazing as advertised!

 

However... total jelly fingers after playing him a few games in a row, especially on perilous. xD

 

P.S. Also, since someone mentioned that the healing song is not as useful... IT IS. It's unrealistic to think that you'll be always be able to barrier everyone. Even in a full game of friends, sometimes they stray out of the radius and can get hurt. It's a real life saver and seems to be providing quite a decent amount of heal.

[QuickerBladeEHGH]

A bad or ineffective Necro, Reaver or Katari one can handle. A team finds ways to adapt.

But a bad Virtuoso really gets on my nerves for some reason, and it's almost better to not have anyone there, so we don't have to keep reviving him and losing our own health we were careful to maintain (and why is a Zither going down so often anyways when they have free "unlimited" barrier?). I've seen quite a few low level Virtuosos on Threatening these last few days who hang way back and almost seem like they are just there for the free XP after the team is dead. It's like he's primarily there to fast-track his Mage promotions.

 

I can understand if Zither doesn't want to constantly cast Barriers. But since they do so little damage, I'd like to see them make up for our lack barriers by being useful elsewhere. So either buff the team up with something, or work on strict offense and use the Power Chords and other unique Zither attacks.

 

The terrible Zithers I've seen use their weak base attack, throw in a couple half-hearted barriers, and then run off looking for treasure rooms while we're fighting for our life on Fereldan Castle.

[hellbiter88]

Zither isn't difficult to use, but there is a certain way to use him effectively, as is the case with any class. Certain passives for barrier and mana regen should be top priority. Offense is attainable, but it is not the number one priority on this kit. Offensive comes secondary to barrier and buffs.

 

It's quite possible to carry an entire team with this kit through dedicated barrier use, applying buffs, and moping up with offensive Power Chord spams. But I often see so many people trying to focus exclusively on buffing or attacking, and neglecting barrier. Buffs don't do your party any good when they die, and your DPS is negligible compared to any other kit. This kit is literally made for barrier. Use it.

[scene_cachet]

Zither should mainly be support spells and power chord upgraded.

[iamchaossthought]

So guyss, I am pleased to report that I played a bit more of the virtuoso after reading some nice advice from the topic (thanks Ploid and iamchaos ) and I gotta say that he is as amazing as advertised!

 

However... total jelly fingers after playing him a few games in a row, especially on perilous. xD

You're very welcome! I can totally relate to the jelly fingers on perilous.

 

A bad or ineffective Necro, Reaver or Katari one can handle. A team finds ways to adapt.

But a bad Virtuoso really gets on my nerves for some reason, and it's almost better to not have anyone there, so we don't have to keep reviving him and losing our own health we were careful to maintain (and why is a Zither going down so often anyways when they have free "unlimited" barrier?). I've seen quite a few low level Virtuosos on Threatening these last few days who hang way back and almost seem like they are just there for the free XP after the team is dead. It's like he's primarily there to fast-track his Mage promotions.

 

I can understand if Zither doesn't want to constantly cast Barriers. But since they do so little damage, I'd like to see them make up for our lack barriers by being useful elsewhere. So either buff the team up with something, or work on strict offense and use the Power Chords and other unique Zither attacks.

 

The terrible Zithers I've seen use their weak base attack, throw in a couple half-hearted barriers, and then run off looking for treasure rooms while we're fighting for our life on Fereldan Castle.

 

I agree with your sentiment on bad virtuosos.  I reckon that was why I was felt the need to make this thread!  

 

In battle, my playstyle usually goes something like:  

-Cast A Little Knight Music

-Fill barrier

-Cast Battle of the Bands

-Mark of Riff if I have it

-Barrier

-Sing-along if needed

-All the while having auto-attack on

 

I am definitely intrigued with Power Chord and will look into that next promotion!

[yarpenthemad21]

Class could be hard to master and use, because instead of "press 1 to fire this" you need to remember what you have.
As for the class it's not that hard to build zither. I would even say that I see 1 build and that's all.
why?

Let analyze some songs

1) Cast a Little Knight Music - yes armor helps. But also yes armor does not work when damage is dealt on barrier. If you can maintain barrier (and that's you main role) you don't need this at all. Waste of mana.
2) Bolstering Ballad - the same with barrier and even resistance bonus is low. Also we have tonics.
3)Cool beats - damage on paper is good, in reality you will bored and old when this DoT deal whole damage. Burst is the king, not some mostly single target long DoT damage.

If you throw away those songs you have build pretty much.
1) You need all mana and barrier passives,
2) You need Battle of the Bands, without upgrade
3) On higher level you want Mark of the rift. Without upgrade, weakness is just weakness it's not worth a point. What does this song do? It's your second damage buff. Around 100 damage total (on 20 level) on attacks for party members for 12 seconds. Why you want it on higher levels? Because starting damage is low and we need something else first
4) After mana and barrier passive + Battle of the bands take Power Chord (upgrade optional) + Encore.

You should have enough left points to get sing-along. Why I don't care that much about sing-along?

1) It won't rescue your party when barrier is down and enemies everywhere.
2) If someone is damaged you either failed at barrier generation (and still Sing-along won't help here) or some party member running around outside of your buffs like moron.
3) It give nothing in common scenario where everybody deal damage, have barrier and want buffs for dps.

Why I don't ignore it completely? Because it has some use. It's free health potion. If someone get damaged you can heal him/her with it to full health. Mostly useful on dragon fight and wave 5.

[FRZN]

You should have enough left points to get sing-along.

You'll be one point short unless you skipped one of the barrier/mana passives or the dispel upgrade to power chord.

[nranola]

ZITHER! is a new character with a distinct game mechanic, so I'm not surprised that a lot of people are still learning the ropes with him. Give it time.

 

It's also possible that lag could be a factor. Take it from me, I experience lag pretty much all the time, and I've had to press chords something like 6 times before I could string a song together.

[Broganisity]

Hey. . .Group hug.

[Wraggly]

Having played a bit of zither, he is, right now, the strongest AOE character in the game.  Cool Beats is more than able to be hitting 1-2k aoe ticks every second and can be maintained on every target with ease.  4 Targets means 750% weapon damage a second for instance. (300 from themselves and 150 from each other target), Not to mention the huge damage bonus from Aggressive Arpeggio (and other passives).  Encore and this skill however is what makes it spammable, and nets you huge stacks of aggressive arpeggio and ensures you never use mana.   At the same time you can also build him as a barrier beast and maintain barriers on the party simultaneously.

 

It's possible to play him as a support I guess, but right now his damage is so insane there's no real need to.

[Shin Balgus]

This sound like a perilous non quick play situation. In routine and threatening I don't need to sellout to barrier on trash mobs, outside of magic enemies,  as they hit in the single digits with the defense buff, and someone is bound to take damage somewhere if they aren't in the bubble and I can react to that and help them out if they run back with heal on hit. They won't already be dead in one hit, and the enemies don't hit for crazy amounts. Not every game has people that do what you expect them to unless it's a familiar group that communicate and know each other. Also maybe the person has an upgraded A Little Knight Music which reduces armor of enemies in the area by 20%.

 

While I certainly don't prefer doing perilous with a whole pug group my playstyle with Zither isn't limited to pre-mades or perilous only.  I also realize the defense buffs have upgrades to lower enemy defenses but I would have to say those themselves would only be  really effective in perilous as things die too quickly anyway in lower difficulties.  I'd just prefer to cast a power chord or something to outright dmg/kill stuff instead of the defense buffs and it saves me a lot of skill points not going either side path of the support tree.

 

Also as many have mentioned, lag plays a pretty big part in how effective you can be with Zither.  Being host helps tremendously, I always try and be host if I know i'll be playing Zither.

[T_elic]

You know, i can handle people not doing a proper ZITHER!. I can take care of myself, and as long as the rest of the team is mildly competent threatning shouldn't be a problem for 3 people.

 

What i can't stand however is when people don't understand my ZITHER. Yesterday i was playing ZITHER, buffing and barriering everything, but my team consisted of 2 of the most noobish Duelists i had ever encountered and an avvar that managed to suck even more. Every ****** zone they wouldn't even let me buff them with sing along and the faster attack speed one, they'd just rush out, die, wait for me to revive them and then rush out of my ****** barrier circle again, again before i could buff them, and die again and it would start all over.

 

I stopped playing ZITHER unless i meet a group who seems competent enough, because it's just incredibly frustrating otherwise.

[Kapsejs]

Maybe it's because it's a new character? Some people who doesn't spend time at the forums and haven't unlocked him yet maybe haven't come to the conclusion that being close to Zither! = barriers + buffs = good times for everybody. I remember the first game I was playing with a Virtuoso on the team - I was awestruck and so happy to see this weird guy with a lute (I was hoping that the April 1st joke wouldn't be a joke, and lo and behold) but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why he was running around in the middle of the battlefield instead of hanging back in a safe place like a proper mage. It was first later I understood the equation above.

 

So hopefully in time people will learn not just how to play Zither, but also how to graciously accepts the barriers and buffs he's giving out instead of running around like crazed ferrets on a chicken farm.

[Robbiesan]

Swap power chord for upgraded cool beats. You'll see kill streaks galore.

Perilous may be a diff story, but barrier uses up so much mana I prefer armour, attack speed, heal on hit, cool beats. On threatening, topping the boards almost every time. Will post a YT vid shortly.

[yarpenthemad21]

You'll be one point short unless you skipped one of the barrier/mana passives or the dispel upgrade to power chord.

Nope, on 19 level you have all what is needed.

[GrommitSmit]

I'm trying out Hellbiter's build as my first promote now and looking for a "set"/play order to get the "freebie" chords in.

So far I seem to be:
Speed boost to the encounter, Barrier spam up to about 3/4, then Sing-A-Long, then with 1 fire chord turn that into Battle of the Bands. I usually add some barrier after this, all the while trying to get some auto-attacks in for mana.

However, I just unlocked Power Chord last night, so should I chain that fire at the end of BoB into a 2nd fire then elec, or only use when needed to dispel/take out the trash?

Loving the play style of this character and the possibilities. Good Job ST. BLuke and the DAMP team. Playing this character makes we want to yell "Station!"

[Saboteur-6]

Zither! requires:

 

• Constant 3 button presses.
• Memorization of Songs.
• High situational awareness (team placement / enemy placement)
• Ability to adjust Song rotation as needed.
• High buff awareness (keeping tabs on active buffs)

Zither! is a rewarding and effective character but certainly isn't beginner friendly. Frankly I'm surprised people are surprised that a lot of PUG Zither's suck.

[FRZN]

Nope, on 19 level you have all what is needed.

No, you're skipping something.  Probably play to the crowd or opening set?

 

However, I just unlocked Power Chord last night, so should I chain that fire at the end of BoB into a 2nd fire then elec, or only use when needed to dispel/take out the trash?

Power chord does its high damage at 2m (melee range) so imo it's something better to use situationally rather than as part of your buff rotation.

[witheredtevinter]

Zither has by far the most unique play-style I've ever experienced from any class in an RPG and I love it.

It took me a while to get the hang of his song rotation, to maximize efficiency without any barrier downtime, but oh man is it ever fun. And it really feels rewarding.

 

An example of his rotation would be, COLD COLD COLD (Hometown Anthem) -> ELEC ELEC (Sing-Along) -> FIRE (Battle of the Bands)

 

I'm embarrassed by how long it took me to realize I didn't have to clear the notes every time I played another song... 

[yarpenthemad21]

You're skipping something, probably play to the crowd or opening set: http://da-skills.net...0,00120,1,010,1

This builder is broken, we start with 2 points in each tree, not with one.
I will tell you what I take
1. Opening Set
2. Fortyfing Appgregio
3. Feel the crowd
4 long solo
5. knight protector
6 battle of the bands
7 play the crowd
8 strength the spirits
9 agressive appregio
10. combat clarity
11. power chord
12 encore
13 front row seats
14 power of the dead
15 mark of the rift
16 last sacrafice
17 tempest music
18 sing a-long

In pretty much that order. You can take front row seats as last and get sing a-long level 1 earlier.
18 abilities to get, 19 level needed. I think it has everything what is needed and in that order you are ready for perilous around level even 7+ in my opinion. Still PuG probably kick you because of "low level"...

[FRZN]

This builder is broken, we start with 2 points in each tree, not with one.

Ah, I didn't notice it was doing that.  You're right.

 

Whelp, looks like I can fit everything I want into one build.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Power chord is god. On threatening, I don't even bother playing support, I just run through the map spamming power chord. Works like a charm. Switch back to support on zone 5, though.

[Saboteur-6]

Zither has by far the most unique play-style I've ever experienced from any class in an RPG and I love it.

It took me a while to get the hang of his song rotation, to maximize efficiency without any barrier downtime, but oh man is it ever fun. And it really feels rewarding.

 

An example of his rotation would be, COLD COLD COLD (Hometown Anthem) -> ELEC ELEC (Sing-Along) -> FIRE (Battle of the Bands)

 

I'm embarrassed by how long it took me to realize I didn't have to clear the notes every time I played another song... 

 

Thanks! I actually didn't know that either lol. I got so used to the 3 note / strum rotation that I got used to the sound cues. I usually open with:

 Battle of the Bands > Sing-Along > A Little Knight Music > Auto-attack > Hometown Anthem//Fire Chord//Power Chord as needed. I don't like being a Barrier bot though.