327 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

The game isn't completely tied to the Inquisitor's POV. You had sequences like the founding of the Inquisition and the march to the Arbor Wilds that weren't from the Inquisitor's viewpoint. These help establish the atmosphere and environment and there should have been more of that in this game.

 

The feeling that we should have gotten out of the attack on Haven was helplessness and loss. The fact that we could save all the people we wanted to undercut that. It would have been more impactful to have seen people like Harrit or Flissa charge heroically at Corypheus only to be burned away in an instant. Or even just see Josephine huddled in the corner, frantically telling us about the people being cut down while the invasion was still going on. 

 

The attack on Haven could have definitely been portrayed more powerfully, I fervently agree. There was too much emotional distance between the raw tragedy of it, and how much we actually saw of that tragedy. 

[AresKeith]

The attack on Haven could have definitely been portrayed more powerfully, I fervently agree. There was too much emotional distance between the raw tragedy of it, and how much we actually saw of that tragedy. 

 

Having the Peace Summit be playable would've helped also

[KaiserShep]

I think the most we could really get out of the Conclave would be the initial gathering of the who's who of Thedas, and perhaps talking to NPC's that are automatically scripted to be close to our PC, be it a long-time colleague or even possibly a family member. Like, if you're from the Circle, you'd have a small group from the Circle that knows you there with you, and so on. It just can't be anything that would be important enough to tell Cassandra about so that the memory loss plot can still function. The only thing we'd get out of the Conclave is the loss of whoever it was we were with, made worse by not even seeing that person before s/he/they died.

[Lady Artifice]

Having the Peace Summit be playable would've helped also

 

Oh, yes. 

 

Then we could have had a much more comprehensive establishing character moment for our Inquisitors, and explored some aspects to their personality outside of their role as the herald. 

[Lady Artifice]

I think the most we could really get out of the Conclave would be the initial gathering of the who's who of Thedas, and perhaps talking to NPC's that are automatically scripted to be close to our PC, be it a long-time colleague or even possibly a family member. Like, if you're from the Circle, you'd have a small group from the Circle that knows you there with you, and so on. It just can't be anything that would be important enough to tell Cassandra about so that the memory loss plot can still function. The only thing we'd get out of the Conclave is the loss of whoever it was we were with, made worse by not even seeing that person before s/he/they died.

 

Getting all of that out of the experience sounds very appealing to me, though. The whole purpose would be to define our PC's personality before the game sets off. 

 

Basically, I'm wishing for a throwback to Origins from DAO, I know. I just think I would have loved to experience that opportunity to get to know my own character before they become this larger than life figure in the game. 

[midnight tea]

Oh man, yes. 

 

Then we could have had a much more comprehensive establishing character moment for our Inquisitors, and explored some aspects to their personality outside of their role as the herald. 

 

The establishing character moment belong to us and our imagination I get the want for more 'establishing' scenes, but I'd feel it would only stifle and limit my character and the way I fully picture them in my head (not just in the game).

[DaemionMoadrin]

I don't know if has been mentioned yet but games are a visual medium. You can't portray a dark, gritty world in bright, cheery colours. You are told that there are refugees starving, freezing, suffering from illness and injuries... but when you meet them, you meet normal people in clean clothes, no suffering in sight and only 3 or 4 people lying down and being tended to.

 

Compare that to DA:O, where peasants were dirty, looked haggard and sounded like it, too.

 

I'm sure the emotional distance and the lack of impact, of consequences was mentioned already.

 

DA:I is bright and warm and happy, everything works out nicely in the end and at no point do you encounter any serious obstacles. Even Disney would be more dark.

 

Not every DA game has to be grim. Not every location has to be dark. Not every storyline needs to be tragic.

But please... don't tell me about demon incursions, civil wars, refugees, exhausting battles and the end of the world while showing me sunny meadows, cute little animals and the latest fashion trends of Orlais.

 

DA:I had so much potential for more. Most stories told within the game deserved more depth, more detail... and yes, some could have done with some more darkness and tragedy.

[midnight tea]

I don't know if has been mentioned yet but games are a visual medium. You can't portray a dark, gritty world in bright, cheery colours. 

 

 

Um actually yes - you CAN portray dark, gritty world and add bright, cheery colors to it; just watch movies like A Scanner Darkly.

 

But I digress - you're saying it as if the game itself never ventured outside of Hinterlands, both in terms of its content and color scheme. What about Fallow Mire then? What about Crestwood and its glistening, sickly look? What about nearly colorless Exalted Plains?? Or cold, hard and haunting Storm Coast? Or the soft music and shadows that underline the melancholy of Emerald Graves? Or the dramatic Western Approach, especially near the Abyssal rift?

 

See, this is exactly why I think people don't really mean it when they say "show, don't tell" - like... it's either going overboard and thinking that 'dark' means LITERALLY dark or there seem to be some lack in attention department.

[Lady Artifice]

The establishing character moment belong to us and our imagination I get the want for more 'establishing' scenes, but I'd feel it would only stifle and limit my character and the way I fully picture them in my head (not just in the game).

 

And I get the preference to keep it as vague as possible, so we can head canon our own ideas.

 

I just prefer to have very personal experiences for the player character. I prefer to have people who are close to them that we can interact with. I want it to feel like my character, but only in the context of their environment. I enjoy the Hawkes and the Shepards the most, and I feel that a lot about them is still open to interpretation and what I like to imagine. 

 

I think this is as subjective as subjective gets. I will always love the more personal content the most. 

[AlanC9]

I don't know if has been mentioned yet but games are a visual medium. You can't portray a dark, gritty world in bright, cheery colours. You are told that there are refugees starving, freezing, suffering from illness and injuries... but when you meet them, you meet normal people in clean clothes, no suffering in sight and only 3 or 4 people lying down and being tended to.
 
Compare that to DA:O, where peasants were dirty, looked haggard and sounded like it, too.

I didn't get that impression from DA:O's look, myself. Possibly because the palette was dingy everywhere, so it made no impression anywhere. I'm not certain.

[Sah291]

Getting all of that out of the experience sounds very appealing to me, though. The whole purpose would be to define our PC's personality before the game sets off.

Basically, I'm wishing for a throwback to Origins from DAO, I know. I just think I would have loved to experience that opportunity to get to know my own character before they become this larger than life figure in the game.

The start of DAI set me up to think my character's background was supposed to be vague. You have memory loss after all, so I was expecting a Revan style reveal mid way through the game that would give more insight into what exactly happened at the conclave and who you really were...and whether that knowledge would change how you felt about the character you had been building up until that point. That moment does come when we get our memories back from the nightmare demon, and you find out you weren't really chosen by andraste. That moment perhaps has a bigger impact on human characters more so than non humans who already don't follow the Chantry (for my elf inquisitor that moment was when she met Mythal). But maybe they could have fleshed out those scenes a little more to show more of the lead up to the explosion.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Um actually yes - you CAN portray dark, gritty world and add bright, cheery colors to it; just watch movies like A Scanner Darkly.

 

But I digress - you're saying it as if the game itself never ventured outside of Hinterlands, both in terms of its content and color scheme. What about Fallow Mire then? What about Crestwood and its glistening, sickly look? What about nearly colorless Exalted Plains?? Or the soft music and shadows that underline the melancholy of Emerald Graves? Or the dramatic and haunting Western Approach, especially near the Abyssal rift?

 

See, this is exactly why I think people don't really mean it when they say "show, don't tell" - like... it's either going overboard and thinking that 'dark' means LITERALLY dark or there seem to be some lack in attention department.

 

I know it can be done, they just didn't do it in DA:I. You can show bright colors and then switch to the starving masses in grey, that only emphasizes the contrast. The Hunger Games would be a good example for that. Capital is filled with color, the districts are not.

 

Fallow Mire and Exalted Plains, sure. Not exactly because of the colors but because there the theme fit. Neither one is a place where you'd want to rest. The other maps though? Even the deserts are beautiful. Crestwood would be downright perfect for a picnic if you stay away from the flooded areas.

 

Btw... I don't think your aggressive tone is justified... considering that you ignored half of my post and only concentrated on the color argument. I'm up for discussions but if your first response are personal attacks, maybe you need to calm down for a minute first, mh?

[midnight tea]

I know it can be done, they just didn't do it in DA:I. You can show bright colors and then switch to the starving masses in grey, that only emphasizes the contrast. The Hunger Games would be a good example for that. Capital is filled with color, the districts are not.

 

Fallow Mire and Exalted Plains, sure. Not exactly because of the colors but because there the theme fit. Neither one is a place where you'd want to rest. The other maps though? Even the deserts are beautiful. Crestwood would be downright perfect for a picnic if you stay away from the flooded areas.

 

Btw... I don't think your aggressive tone is justified... considering that you ignored half of my post and only concentrated on the color argument. I'm up for discussions but if your first response are personal attacks, maybe you need to calm down for a minute first, mh?

 

Sorry, I was mostly talking overall, not just to you and I forgot to cut away things in the quote I wasn't directly addressing.

 

Also - as a person who likes contrasts, I have no problem with those.

 

Anyway, the thing that bothers me about what your'e suggesting is that apparently that a 'dark' story (or story with dark elements) ultimately has to be predominantly dark, gritty... and god forbid it was aesthetically pleasing. That's not true at all.

 

And Thedas is still a living, breathing world - not the husk of it, like in say, Dark Souls. A lot of things that happen in DA is bad and bleak, but it's also supposed to emphasize that either there are still beautiful things there... or that a lot of less beautiful things hide behind those pleasant vistas. There are dead bodies - piles of it sometimes - and other gruesome discoveries to be found all across the zones. They don't have to be literally thrown at us at every single turn; I'd be rolling my eyes if it did, because - for me, personally - it would be tantamount to Bioware hitting me in the forehead with a giant brick and screaming "Can you tell how gruesome and sad and bad it is already!? Get it?? Get iiiiit!?"

[DaemionMoadrin]

Sorry, I was mostly talking overall, not just to you and I forgot to cut away things in the quote I wasn't directly addressing.

 

Also - as a person who likes contrasts, I have no problem with those.

 

Anyway, the thing that bothers me about what your'e suggesting is that apparently that a 'dark' story (or story with dark elements) ultimately has to be predominantly dark, gritty... and god forbid it was aesthetically pleasing. That's not true at all.

 

And Thedas is still a living, breathing world - not the husk of it, like in say, Dark Souls. A lot of things that happen in DA is bad and bleak, but it's also supposed to emphasize that either there are still beautiful things there... or that a lot of less beautiful things hide behind those pleasant vistas. There are dead bodies - piles of it sometimes - and other gruesome discoveries to be found all across the zones. They don't have to be literally thrown at us at every single turn; I'd be rolling my eyes if it did, because - for me, personally - it would be tantamount to Bioware hitting me in the forehead with a giant brick and screaming "Can you tell how gruesome and sad and bad it is already!? Get it?? Get iiiiit!?"

 

No problem then.

 

I agree with that.

 

As I mentioned before, there was much untapped potential in almost all areas of DA:I. It was the first BioWare game I didn't get emotionally invested in, because to me it always felt superficial. It lacks depth. I'm not saying it doesn't have some excellent stories to tell (Crestwood is one of the better ones for example) it's just overall it was too... easy. Not enough consequences for the Inquisitors actions. Companions like Vivienne practically unused (wouldn't she have been a great help at the ball?), everything directly connected to the main character has a happy end and you never experience the fear of failure at any point of the game.

 

I believe BioWare can do better. They did so in the past and I am sure that if they had had more time for DA:I, they would have done so again. Perhaps the next game they release will not devour developer time just to make mobs run on four legs and instead they can concentrate on their strengths again. Storytelling being one of them.

[midnight tea]

Well here's where we differ, because I definitely felt emotionally invested in the story. Did I want to have maybe more choices or uses of some companions - sure! The more the better. Did I feel I'd done some things differently or added more depth to some story-lines or quests - of course! But I can't say that I'm disappointed with the experience, overall.

 

As for not enough consequences for Inquisitor... well, it depends what kind of consequences you expect. How companions treat us definitely depends on how we treat them and how we rule. Epilogue provides a plethora of different outcomes depending our choices, varying significantly between ways Inquisition has been led. And there's no telling how these choices will influence the content of either future games or DLCs. The main question the Inquisition posed - whether Inquisitor will save or destroy the world - remains yet unanswered, and while I can't predict what Bioware is planning to do with the story or the Inquisitor, I feel like they're not done with our heroes yet.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I was thinking of consequences that changed the world while I was still walking around in it. Epilogue is fine and all, but the world and its inhabitants are static. Nothing in Orlais ever changes, even after the civil war ends. The Hinterlands remain as they were even after you solved the refugee problem.

 

I am disappointed with the game overall but that's my personal problem. I'm happy that others had a better experience with it.

[In Exile]

I think there were certainly sequences in the main story that attempted to create a sense of horror in the player. They just weren't effectively executed.

The "dark future" that we saw in the Mage questline, the time we spent in our own minds in the Templar questline, the Haven invasion, and our excursion into the Nightmare-controlled Fade. These scenarios were rife with horror tropes like torture, mind-control, being trapped, etc. The game just didn't go far enough to make it as impactful as it could have been. You had a post-apocalyptic world ruled by a darkspawn god, a demon rooting around in the darkest corners of your mind, a village being slaughtered by an invading army that seemingly included an archdemon, and a realm that was supposedly ruled by the literal embodiment of nightmares. With more tact, this could have been the most horror-filled game in the series.

It's funny you say that because I found the DAI segments far more effective at being horror than everything in DAO besides Hespith's speech.

[midnight tea]

I was thinking of consequences that changed the world while I was still walking around in it. Epilogue is fine and all, but the world and its inhabitants are static. Nothing in Orlais ever changes, even after the civil war ends. The Hinterlands remain as they were even after you solved the refugee problem.

 

I am disappointed with the game overall but that's my personal problem. I'm happy that others had a better experience with it.

 

 

Some things will remain how they were for some time - this isn't XXI century, where everything changes swiftly, even if we assume that events in Inquisition takes about a year. It will take some time for people to come back to their homes and re-adjust. So you wont' find many LARGE changes (like those we see, for example, in Crestwood), but small, noticeable changes? Yes, there are - plenty in fact. Aside from people commenting what has Inquisition done; we see them move around the map, inhabiting settlements or ramparts we cleared from bandits, rebels or demons; soldiers and allies patrolling roads; we see enemies either disappearing from the regions or bandits appearing, large portions of map being cleared off Red Lyrium or poisonous gas, or the stabilizing effect of keeps.

 

So yes - things in Orlais and Ferelden DO change. 

[Torgette]

Um actually yes - you CAN portray dark, gritty world and add bright, cheery colors to it; just watch movies like A Scanner Darkly.

 

But I digress - you're saying it as if the game itself never ventured outside of Hinterlands, both in terms of its content and color scheme. What about Fallow Mire then? What about Crestwood and its glistening, sickly look? What about nearly colorless Exalted Plains?? Or cold, hard and haunting Storm Coast? Or the soft music and shadows that underline the melancholy of Emerald Graves? Or the dramatic Western Approach, especially near the Abyssal rift?

 

See, this is exactly why I think people don't really mean it when they say "show, don't tell" - like... it's either going overboard and thinking that 'dark' means LITERALLY dark or there seem to be some lack in attention department.

 

I remember both Dark Souls and Diablo 3 getting blasted (D3 a lot more so) for having "light" or "bright" areas, in the end nobody cares and other "grimdark" games have come and gone with bright areas without much ruckus.

[Il Divo]

I know it can be done, they just didn't do it in DA:I. You can show bright colors and then switch to the starving masses in grey, that only emphasizes the contrast. The Hunger Games would be a good example for that. Capital is filled with color, the districts are not.

 

 

Eh, I've heard this before, but this is usually where I link the Oberyn Martell vs Gregor Clegane duel. While dark colors and gritty have traditionally appeared together, I think that's a great counter example to the idea that the two can't occur together. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Eh, I've heard this before, but this is usually where I link the Oberyn Martell vs Gregor Clegane duel. While dark colors and gritty have traditionally appeared together, I think that's a great counter example to the idea that the two can't occur together. 

 

I know. BioWare didn't use it though.

 

We are told that the refugees are freezing, starving, riddled with illness and injuries, barely scraping by and close to death. Then you get there and see green meadows, warm sunshine, healthy people in clean clothes, the entire area is orderly and clean... everything is bright and happy and in that case, that just doesn't fit.

 

I'm not saying the entire game should be dark and gritty... but it should be where it's appropriate.

[Torgette]

The establishing character moment belong to us and our imagination I get the want for more 'establishing' scenes, but I'd feel it would only stifle and limit my character and the way I fully picture them in my head (not just in the game).

 

I actually like how the game starts with an explosion, it had immediate impact - something Haven could've had more of and Skyhold definitely didn't have.

[Tsunami Chef]

I actually like how the game starts with an explosion, it had immediate impact - something Haven could've had more of and Skyhold definitely didn't have.

How did Skyhold not have immediate impact? This is why this forum is a cesspool, because people just post opinion after opinion that contradicts every sensible notion and then act like they just hit the lottery. Yes, losing haven to a near god, then finding an ancient castle that will serve as your abse of operations has no immediate impact. Not to mention this is presented in pretty inarguably one of if not the most beautiful cinematics in Dragon Age history (mainly due to technology improvements, but it's still true.)

 

Let me guess, you found the introduction to human noble origin more inspiring and impactful?

 

And boy, it's good to see the same faces from three months ago are still on this forum arguing and whining why this game is worse than DA:O...I thought they would have gotten sick of it, but it's a lifetime profession now.

 

People who use logic in their brains need to realize something when talking to these DA:O fanboys...their memories are filled with fantasies of what DA:O was. It was a dark gritty landscape, with Game of Thrones esque writing, epic combat, and truly momentous decisions that decided the fate of the world. That's truly what they see.

[Torgette]

How did Skyhold not have immediate impact?

 

And boy, it's good to see the same faces from three months ago are still on this forum arguing and whining why this game is worse than DA:O...I thought they would have gotten sick of it, but it's a lifetime profession now.

 

Well the trip to Skyhold was one of the best sequences in the game, but the battle at the end had no setup or pizazze or whatever you want to call it. It just kind of... happens, you forget it's an ambush.

[midnight tea]

I know. BioWare didn't use it though.

 

We are told that the refugees are freezing, starving, riddled with illness and injuries, barely scraping by and close to death. Then you get there and see green meadows, warm sunshine, healthy people in clean clothes, the entire area is orderly and clean... everything is bright and happy and in that case, that just doesn't fit.

 

I'm not saying the entire game should be dark and gritty... but it should be where it's appropriate.

 

If you'd ask for a bit more dirt on refugees or less of an orderly camp (I assume it's orderly, because Inqusition is at least semi-competent running it) I'd have no problem with this kind of criticism. But the "green meadows and warms sunshine" part I don't get.

 

It's not always 'appropriate' weather in real life - there's sun and birds chirping at funerals and rain during weddings - so in as visually realistic game as DAI, I kinda expect to meet such juxtaposition from time to time. Like I mentioned earlier, we already have entire zones that are pretty gloomy or atmospheric, as well as those in which grim and dark elements lurk in shadows, almost literally.