327 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

If you'd ask for a bit more dirt on refugees or less of an orderly camp (I assume it's orderly, because Inqusition is at least semi-competent running it) I'd have no problem with this kind of criticism. But the "green meadows and warms sunshine" part I don't get.

 

It's not always 'appropriate' weather in real life - there's sun and birds chirping at funerals and rain during weddings - so in as visually realistic game as DAI, I kinda expect to meet such juxtaposition from time to time. Like I mentioned earlier, we already have entire zones that are pretty gloomy or atmospheric, as well as those in which grim and dark elements lurk in shadows, almost literally.

 

... not my point.

 

You get a quest to find supplies and blankets for the freezing refugees... you get a quest to hunt rams for the starving people... but when you actually meet them, they are frolicking in the sunshine and don't look very hungry.

 

What we are being told doesn't match what we see.

[midnight tea]

... not my point.

 

You get a quest to find supplies and blankets for the freezing refugees... you get a quest to hunt rams for the starving people... but when you actually meet them, they are frolicking in the sunshine and don't look very hungry.

 

What we are being told doesn't match what we see.

 

What are they supposed to do - cartoonishly hold they bellies and moan? They move around and comment, some of them are lying on beds or sitting... that's it.

Also - it's strongly implied that they're freezing whenever nights come, which are apparently cold, but that doesn't imply that the day itself is cold. So it's no really that different to where I live, as of this time of year - the days are warm to a point where I can wear short sleeve, but right now it's night and temperature dropped so low that I sit wrapped in two blankets.

[DaemionMoadrin]

What are they supposed to do - cartoonishly hold they bellies and moan? They move around and comment, some of them are lying on beds or sitting... that's it.

Also - it's strongly implied that they're freezing whenever nights come, which are apparently cold, but that doesn't imply that the day itself is cold. So it's no really that different to where I live, as of this time of year - the days are warm to a point where I can wear short sleeve, but right now it's night and temperature dropped so low that I sit wrapped in two blankets.

 

Considering that there is no day/night cycle in DA:I...

 

I'm not asking for much here. Perhaps change a few textures so the refugees wear damaged clothes with some stains. Have a few bandaged. Increase the lines in their faces so they look more gaunt or at least worried. Make them sound desperate.

 

The refugee situation is just one example, there are more all over the game. What I am asking for is that the scenario we see matches the story we are told. Otherwise there a discrepancies and that makes it harder to suspend the disbelief and get engaged within in the story.

[Hazegurl]

... not my point.

 

You get a quest to find supplies and blankets for the freezing refugees... you get a quest to hunt rams for the starving people... but when you actually meet them, they are frolicking in the sunshine and don't look very hungry.

 

What we are being told doesn't match what we see.

I agree, DAI's visual style left much to be desired in terms of showing us the horrors of the Mage/Templar war.  I just finished playing Witcher 1 & 2 and i forgot just how well their style was.  Sure there were some flaws, especially in the first game but they did more than just tell us a story, it was shown to us.  A Horrorfic battlefield looked like a horrorfic battlefield, we actually saw what was done to the Mages, we saw the bloody civilians getting kicked about, the bodies piled, the poor looked poor and in need of help. 

 

DAI told a story but never really showed us their story.  I don't recall feeling sorry for any nameless NPC in DAI.

[casper7000]

I might concede that DA:O was grittier.  DAI is a glossier game than DAO in the same way ME3 is glossier than ME.  I'm not sure how much of this is an active design choice or just a change in technology.  But I never felt that any of the games was particularly dark, or a particularly accurate analog for any nation in medieval Europe. (I'm also not sure why black people and a lack of prostitution is always where we gravitate when we talk about inaccuracies in these games.) I'm not sure I would have enjoyed the games as much if they were dark.  There are dark, even gruesome, moments in each of the games, but I never felt like I was playing God of War, and that is just all right with me.  I don't know. I like the game, and I like the direction they've gone, so its hard for me to feel disappointed about the overarching design choices.

You never know, with the direction it seems to be going. Since it seems like they would be so close to releasing the other gods from their prison that Solas (Dread Wolf) has trapped them in. Can't imagine all of them or the forbidden ones being too happy when they do get out. Especially if the rumors of the Blighted Dragon Souls are really each one of the keys to freeing them. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

What are they supposed to do - cartoonishly hold they bellies and moan? They move around and comment, some of them are lying on beds or sitting... that's it.

Also - it's strongly implied that they're freezing whenever nights come, which are apparently cold, but that doesn't imply that the day itself is cold. So it's no really that different to where I live, as of this time of year - the days are warm to a point where I can wear short sleeve, but right now it's night and temperature dropped so low that I sit wrapped in two blankets.

they are lying on beds even when they get supplies. there is no such thing as night in Hinterlands.

headcanoning gameplay feels ridiculous even for my standards.

[Torgette]

I agree, DAI's visual style left much to be desired in terms of showing us the horrors of the Mage/Templar war.  I just finished playing Witcher 1 & 2 and i forgot just how well their style was.  Sure there were some flaws, especially in the first game but they did more than just tell us a story, it was shown to us.  A Horrorfic battlefield looked like a horrorfic battlefield, we actually saw what was done to the Mages, we saw the bloody civilians getting kicked about, the bodies piled, the poor looked poor and in need of help. 

 

DAI told a story but never really showed us their story.  I don't recall feeling sorry for any nameless NPC in DAI.

 

It's not even about showing it in the game, it's more just showing it at all. Even DA2 had more of a civil war feel to the end than DAI and that was just using storybook style cutscenes. They did do an exceptional job of showing the aftermath - they modeled a lot of landscape destruction, but it doesn't feel like a war because you never well... see it. The Witcher 2 actually shows the war in progress at multiple points through acts 1 and 2, had those segments been taken out it too would not have felt like a war.

[Hazegurl]

True,  with DA2, I think they did a good job of showing us how messed up Kirkwall was during the Qunari war and the Mage/Templar war.  Like Witcher it had it's flaws but they at least tried to show us.  DAI doesn't even make an attempt...okay too much, they do, with a few scattered burning houses and sound effects, and some npcs scattered about fighting.  But overall, it just felt like background noise and I never got the sense that the people were put out by it.  I think the Hinterlands would have made a much better impact if it was smaller, the player given more obstacles due to the battle, more abominations and cut scenes of the horrors going on.  I also think that distracting the player away from the war with their collection quota didn't help.  In The Witcher, I collected herbs for my potions but nothing was too out of way or two numerous to the point where I forgot what I was doing in the area.

[midnight tea]

they are lying on beds even when they get supplies. there is no such thing as night in Hinterlands.

headcanoning gameplay feels ridiculous even for my standards.

 

Headcanoning gameplay? How am I headcanoning it?

 

We know there's night and day cycle in Thedas (+Whittle specifically mentions that refugees will be freezing during night) - just because BW didn't decide to include a dynamic day/night cycle doesn't mean that it's a headcanon *facepalm* Also, having enough of an imagination and two braincells to rub together in order not to require the game to be painfully explicit and literal is NOT headcanoning either - and it's silly to suggest that it is.

[In Exile]

... not my point.

 

You get a quest to find supplies and blankets for the freezing refugees... you get a quest to hunt rams for the starving people... but when you actually meet them, they are frolicking in the sunshine and don't look very hungry.

 

What we are being told doesn't match what we see.

 

This point would have some value if it wasn't exactly how Bioware did it in DA:O with the Lothering refugees or the casteless dwarves. 

[Shechinah]

This point would have some value if it wasn't exactly how Bioware did it in DA:O with the Lothering refugees or the casteless dwarves. 

 

http://guides.gamepr...d/1734731937.pg - Just to be certain; you are referring to how relatively unstained and unmarred the clothing worn by the Lothering refugees and the Sister is as well as how unstarved most of them look in terms of build and appearance, as an example?

[AlanC9]

This point would have some value if it wasn't exactly how Bioware did it in DA:O with the Lothering refugees or the casteless dwarves.

It can still work, as long as you say that this is a general problem with Bio's style rather than a DAI-specific problem.

[DaemionMoadrin]

This point would have some value if it wasn't exactly how Bioware did it in DA:O with the Lothering refugees or the casteless dwarves. 

 

I have no idea what you want to say here. How is DA:O relevant for this discussion?

[DomeWing333]

This point would have some value if it wasn't exactly how Bioware did it in DA:O with the Lothering refugees or the casteless dwarves. 

Pictured below: frolicking in the sunshine

Spoiler

 

I think DAO did a much better job at depicting the miserable conditions of peasants through its imagery and color palette. I'm not saying that all of Inquisition should have been brown and dreary. Val Royeaux was exactly as bright and decadent as it should have been and the Emerald Graves looked appropriately scenic. But if you want to communicate to the player that "life as a refugee in the Hinterlands crossroads sucks," you should make the scenery there convey that. As it was, it looked no worse than Haven or Redcliffe.

[In Exile]

I have no idea what you want to say here. How is DA:O relevant for this discussion?

Are you being serious? The topic is that DAO was darker than DAI. The post was about how DAI failed to show a refugee camp realistically. My point is that DAO similarly failed - Bioware took the same approach.

[L. Han]

I think it's more on the world building that matters. In DA:O you had scenes littered with piles of dead ferelden soldiers with blood and gore all over the place. Compared to DA:I's world building where even the most (supposedly) bloody battles was relatively calm and clean.

 

I have said this before and I will say it again. Try finding me a scene that can be compared to the battle for Ostagar or for Denerim. Nothing in DA:I had quite the scale and epicness of that.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Are you being serious? The topic is that DAO was darker than DAI. The post was about how DAI failed to show a refugee camp realistically. My point is that DAO similarly failed - Bioware took the same approach.

 

The topic is about DA:O? Huh, okay. Weird, I've been talking about DA:I the entire time. Also, thank you very much for saying that the points I made have no value.

 

I still don't see the relevance but if we really need to compare the two games... the post above yours does it quite well. Perhaps you should replay DA:O and have a closer look at the NPCs.

[Torgette]

I don't really get the whole refugee camp vs. Orzammar comparison, casteless is more permanent slum-like conditions which is different from temporary refugee conditions. The refugee camp at crossroads imo did a better job than Lothering at showing a refugee situation if nothing else than by actually populating it with refugees instead of a few merchants and some fields and a dog.

[Hazegurl]

This point would have some value if it wasn't exactly how Bioware did it in DA:O with the Lothering refugees or the casteless dwarves. 

Bandits stealing money, the crooked seller, the child looking for his dead mother, et al.  Lothering was a dreary dump. And the casteless dwarves had it worst.  People were sleeping on the ground "outside", offering themselves up for prostitution et al.  The Casteless area was just as much...better yet, even moreso of a dump than Lothering. 

[Saphiron123]

I was just thinking about this, "not dark enough", riiiight

It's a codex entry. When there's next to no dead, few tragic events, almost no hard decisions, a box of text doesn't make the game darker.

DAO was grittier. You saw aspects of the war in and out of the main story, guys hanging from trees, little touches like that. In DAI you get a few burning homes in the hinterlands and random mobs. It has no consequences to the world.

DAI is mostly sunny and happy and you're so far removed from the main conflict you only hear about the decisive battle at the war table.

[AlanC9]

The topic is about DA:O? Huh, okay. Weird, I've been talking about DA:I the entire time. Also, thank you very much for saying that the points I made have no value.

Well, the thread title is literally about a change in the DA series. Though the OP itself talks about a fairly stupid article which we got away from about ten pages ago.

Also, you have been comparing DAI to DA:O.

I don't know if has been mentioned yet but games are a visual medium. You can't portray a dark, gritty world in bright, cheery colours. You are told that there are refugees starving, freezing, suffering from illness and injuries... but when you meet them, you meet normal people in clean clothes, no suffering in sight and only 3 or 4 people lying down and being tended to.
 
Compare that to DA:O, where peasants were dirty, looked haggard and sounded like it, too.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well, the thread title is literally about a change in the DA series. Though the OP itself talks about a fairly stupid article which we got away from about ten pages ago.

Also, you have been comparing DAI to DA:O.
 

 

Damn, busted!

[Torgette]

It's a codex entry. When there's next to no dead, few tragic events, almost no hard decisions, a box of text doesn't make the game darker.

DAO was grittier. You saw aspects of the war in and out of the main story, guys hanging from trees, little touches like that. In DAI you get a few burning homes in the hinterlands and random mobs. It has no consequences to the world.

DAI is mostly sunny and happy and you're so far removed from the main conflict you only hear about the decisive battle at the war table.

 

Right, the old "show don't tell" issue the game has in general with storytelling.

[AppalachianApex]

I don't quite agree with the author of the article on the whole race thing, that's something I don't remotely have an issue with and I think is being taken the wrong way.

 

However I DO agree that Inquisition lost the franchise's "dark" tone, and is worse off for it. I love Inquisition, I'm on my 3rd play for goodness sake, but I can see that the game is safe, clean, sterilized, mass-appealing, "high-fantasy wonderland." It's neutral, it's not dark, it doesn't offend anyone, and it tries to appeal to everyone.

 

Again, I love Inquisition. But in terms of tone it's a serious step back, even from DA2, a game which I felt really nailed the overall 'tone' of the Dragon Age world.

[Saphiron123]

Considering that there is no day/night cycle in DA:I...

 

I'm not asking for much here. Perhaps change a few textures so the refugees wear damaged clothes with some stains. Have a few bandaged. Increase the lines in their faces so they look more gaunt or at least worried. Make them sound desperate.

 

The refugee situation is just one example, there are more all over the game. What I am asking for is that the scenario we see matches the story we are told. Otherwise there a discrepancies and that makes it harder to suspend the disbelief and get engaged within in the story.

It'd be nice if it felt like there was an actual conflict in the game... most maps are just so empty and meaningless.