Oh wait, there's more.
He also doesn't believe that racism has been an issue in America for over a century.
He's the actual embodiment of insane troll logic, this one.
Wow! lol!!! Yeah I think he's pretty much a troll who thinks he looks like Christian Bale when he's being a dick but really he just looks like this:
Keep on fighting the good fight Jack, against all those hyper sugar eating Lesbians...who are really men...
Wow! lol!!! Yeah I think he's pretty much a troll who thinks he looks like Christian Bale when he's being a dick but really he just looks like this:
The ad-hominem of attractiveness is one of the biggest signs of a manchild scared his facade is broken.
Good job pumpkin, you proved it right.
Sorry, but you're pretty much reframing the argument here with somebody who pretty well knows that quasi-European medieval fantasy isn't equivalent to actual 'medieval' Europe. I can't speak for Cimeas, but I suspect he isn't exactly naive either. His perception (and that of others) is that modern (particularly US) concerns, as picked up by BioWare, are progressively influencing the evolution of the DA franchise away from the initial depiction of Thedas as a quasi-(oh, very much quasi-) medieval setting. Some call that political correctness; others may call that 'inclusive anachronism'.
The perception of some is that Bill Clinton is a secret lizard person. All that I can speak to is the actual content in-game and the true historical backdrop that "medieval" fantasy is supposedly based on. I am aware that the real issue here is political: people have an issue with socially liberal values; now, people are entitled to hold these views, but attempting to hide them behind some faux historical viewpoint is intolerable.
Medieval fantasy isn't based on medieval history. It's based on a very modern pop perception of what medieval history must have been like rather than what it was like. Since the whole thing is just anachronistic, trying to make the debate about "authenticity" is intellectually bankrupt. What people who bring this up really mean is that they want the setting to correspond to their political view.
My point is that there's no difference between an anachronistic view of history that's exclusive (e.g. lots of discrimination! racism! sexism!) or inclusive (tolerate! togetherness! only fantasy racism!). When it comes to authenticity there's no difference between these two points of view.
There’s a difference though. The racism aspect in DA looks suspiciously like a modern North American translation into a fantasy context of the position of the Jews in medieval Europe. While it can and does provide an opportunity for sociopolitical commentary on the condition of downtrodden minorities (it also inverts the trope of Elves as fantasy Homosapiens Superior) it’s not hard to link a ghetto-dwelling minority in a quasi-medieval setting with the Jews. The modern racist aspect, however, makes it easier for modern westerners (US citizens in particular) to ‘get the point’. It’s definitely a modernized and possibly even an Americanized aspect, but it’s not without medieval / early modern roots.
The gender equality, on the other hand, is clearly and unequivocally modern. Modern-style gender equality is pretty much a given in any modern RPG where you can create male and female characters. This may be partly out of conviction (‘men and women are equal’ etc.) but there are good pragmatic (game-mechanical) and commercial reasons to make this so. I think this is also a point where Cimeas is on weak ground when you look at DA:O’s lore.
I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing where you're going with this line of argument. I will note, however, that gender relations changed radically and substantially (among the lower class) during the industrial revolution. To talk about medieval norms we have to talk about true norms; not about the radical shift in gender politics that came from having a post-industrial society.
Though I will say that I understand why he thinks DA:O is more patriarchal than lore, even in its DA:O stage of development, says it is. Most people with authority in DA:O are men; Anora, the most powerful woman in the game, has a position that seems to originate with her status as the King’s wife. The later games made the gender equality much more visible, but it’s very easy to interpret that as ‘modernization’.
That's just not how it portrayed in-game. Anora is a commoner who is raised as a Queen, and is such an apparently amazing Queen that she will be endorsed to rule in her own right if she has enough political support behind her. Let me say this again: an entire assembly of every powerful noble in Ferelden will endorse someone who's father was an outright dirt farmer to rule in her own right.
Of course, during most of DA:O, Anora's sole claim (again, because her father is a dirt farmer who was upraised by Maric, and who still holds all of his own lands and titles) is through her political marriage.
Moving to people in position of authority, however, you are right that most female characters are in a "second-in-command" rule: (i) Isolde in Redcliffe; (ii) Wynne at the Circle; (iii) Branka in Orzammar (who is, in everyone's eyes, the closest things the dwarves have to a god); (iv) Anora in Ferlende; (v) Lanaya in the Brecillian Forest.
That's a problem where the writing is inconsistent with the lore, however. To wax poetically about DA moving to be more lore-consistent is really a criticism about DA:I being less dark.
Oh come on, having powerful abbesses, the Holy Virgin Mary and oodles of female saints didn’t keep medieval Europeans from having strongly defined gender roles. Though these gender roles often were not defined or fixed in the way we think they were, depending on the area, region or social class. ‘Patriarchal’ is a pretty vague term anyway – men may have the ‘external’ power (war, diplomacy etc.), but there’s plenty of room for women to exercise power internally (within the household) – and if circumstances permit, ‘externally’ as well. DA:O can be seen to depict this with the wife of the Teyrn of Highever as well as with Anora.
Now you're just being intellectually dishonest. The gender convention in Christianity came from the actual religious doctrine, such as, say, excluding women from the clergy, and the various post-Gospel bible passages surrounding the role of women vs. men (not to mention Jewish gender politics incorporated into Christianity). In DA, the convention is the reverse - men are excluded from every position of power in the clergy. It is, actually, DA:I were we are first introduced to a person who is both a man and has any nominal power in the Chantry at all.
Again, I’ll admit that DA:O ’s lore depicted a more ‘modern’ society when it comes to gender politics than one would find in a more ‘medieval European’ society, but it is very easy to interpret DA:O as being more medieval than it was in the lore. What was shown in-game – rather than told in the in-game books – was broadly compatible with a view of Thedas as ‘fantasy quasi-medieval Europe’.
That's not my point. My point is that what people are asking for is modern identity politics (self-identified sexuality, etc.) but with a early 20th century power dynamic (i.e., discrimination on the basis of sexuality, gender, etc.).
That's what's anachronistic. People on both sides are asking for modern identity politics - they're just disagreeing whether the power dynamic should be 1880, 1930, 1960, or 2015.
Not sure what you are trying to say here. The whole LBGT issue in the later DA games is quite clearly a modern insertion, it’s a frickin’ hot issue in the USA (though far less so in Canada and much of Europe). It’s bloody obvious why it got into DA. BioWare has every right to do so and I sympathise with the intent, but it’s a very obvious difference between (official) medieval European attitudes (which in one form or another still persist, particularly but not exclusively in the USA and Eastern Europe) – and Thedas post-DA:O.
If you mean ‘other times, other places, other mores’ sure, but that’s precisely Cimeas’ point: Another time’s concerns with gender are inserted in what is perceived as being a (pseudo-) medieval European fantasy setting.
What I'm saying is that sexuality was not an identity historically in the way it is an identity today. Actual identity politics from a medieval period would be alien to these modern concerns, but they wouldn't be hostile to them in the way that this Cimeas person seems to think. That's the anachronism, again.
I understand it when some people like the idea of inclusive anachronism and its expansion and elaboration as the DA universe evolves. But while I agree that Cimeas’ interpretation of DA:O era Thedas is certainly (at least partly) contradicted by the lore, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable interpretation (particularly if you consider what is ‘shown, not told’ in DA:O). This also means I understand why he and others object to it. Regardless of how modern and anachronistic DA:O was or can be perceived to be, this is much more the case in the later games.
The developers are not responsible - and it is most certainly not a position worthy of any notable modicum of respect - to say that a game has "changed" from its roots because of people's projection of modern politics onto a portrayal that was never supported in the lore, and wasn't even supported in the game.
What's shown in DAO - for the large part - is that women are in positions of power and quickly acquire and succeed it and that sexuality is largely a non-issue (Zervran's own take on it is the lore-inconsistent anachronism, and in the most blatant example of modern anachronism, reflected the early 2000s hypocritical distinction between M/M and F/F relationships).
I mean then we move on to other things like nobody even understand how the Qun operates on insane troll logic (that's where every single complaint about the IB and Krem originates - people's failure to get that the Qunari identity operates solely on No True Scotsman fallacies).
If you've been on the internet for at least a year, you know it's fact that very few people claiming to be women are legitimate. Normally I wouldn't care, let kids live out their false-realities. However, the people I see do it here not only lead men on by a leash, but also act this way to get positive attention.
I haven't met a single person in either Bioware forum, now or before, who was a real woman not out to get attention. In Exile claims to be a woman I think? She may be legit. She isn't a raging lesbo at the very least.
Problem there, you haven't met most people on the Bioware forum. They're words on a screen
Now, who the **** is "leading men around on a leash"?
I haven't met a single person in either Bioware forum, now or before, who was a real woman not out to get attention. In Exile claims to be a woman I think? She may be legit. She isn't a raging lesbo at the very least.
I'm not sure how I got dragged into this mess but I've never said that I was a woman, since I am not a woman.
The ad-hominem of attractiveness is one of the biggest signs of a manchild scared his facade is broken.
Good job pumpkin, you proved it right.
Said the guy who started the ad hominem attacks. Oh the Irony. 
I'm not sure how I got dragged into this mess but I've never said that I was a woman, since I am not a woman.
Then I remembered wrong, sorry.
Then I remembered wrong, sorry.
I'm not offended (why would I be?) just a bit shocked and largely confused.
Derailing another thread with your insane ramblings, eh Jack?
Derailing another thread with your insane ramblings, eh Jack?
Hey now kiddo, they insisted on bringing up this ****. I only responded, which made them mad at my *gasp* politically incorrect ideas!!!
Hey now kiddo, they insisted on bringing up this ****. I only responded, which made them mad at my *gasp* politically incorrect ideas!!!
Still thinking you're more successful at getting people riled than you actually are
The past two pages, people have been laughing at you, not getting mad. You're funny, in a pathetic sort of way. I love chatting with you myself, its hilarious
Hey now kiddo, they insisted on bringing up this ****. I only responded, which made them mad at my *gasp* politically incorrect ideas!!!
It's not who started it, but where it always seems to end.
Still thinking you're more successful at getting people riled than you actually are
The past two pages, people have been laughing at you, not getting mad. You're funny, in a pathetic sort of way. I love chatting with you myself, its hilarious
I'm a hilarious guy for sure. Though I'm not trying to rile people up. If anything my whole schtick is to dispel all this Liberal bias and ignorance around here. I feel legitimate pity for those blind enough to think equality and """progression""" are good things. It makes me wish they could see the truth, but as they say, the truth is always met with mockery first. Then anger. Then acceptance.
It shouldn't really matter whether or not something in Dragon Age is anachronistic, as it doesn't take place in an actual time period of our history. What should matter is whether something is consistent.
Example: In real life, someone mentioned if Jews converted to Christianity in mass than Europeans would accept them (which I have doubts about regarding the Spanish Inquisition's ruthless searches for crypto-Jews and the fact that there was an cultural/ethnic component to Judaism beyond just religion) and therefore, the Andrastian human racism against Andrastian city elves is anachronistic. But that doesn't make sense. The elves are noticeably non-human. We also don't know if Andrastianism treats converts the same way Christianity does. The elves have a history of being slaves of the ancestors of the humans racist against them. We don't know how wrapped together the identities of being (say) a Ferelden of Alamarri descent and being an Andrastian are, etc. There's too many judgements being made that assume "Thedas=High Middle Age Europe until proven otherwise." The history is just not the same, despite the parallels.
Also, regarding the treatment of same-sex relationships, homophobia has historically almost always been tied up in A) religious morality, or B ) tight gender roles. If Andrastianism does not hold it to be a sin (and we've seen no evidence that it does) and gender roles are loosened (which they noticeably are in Thedas) than homophobia would be most likely rare. Witness the way no one is shocked that Celene's lover was a woman. They were shocked that Celene's lover was an elf.
I'm a hilarious guy for sure. Though I'm not trying to rile people up. If anything my whole schtick is to dispel all this Liberal bias and ignorance around here. I feel legitimate pity for those blind enough to think equality and """progression""" are good things. It makes me wish they could see the truth, but as they say, the truth is always met with mockery first. Then anger. Then acceptance.
Says the person who likes to mock people endlessly and seems to be the angriest over here...
I don't know which one I would say is the darkest game, but Origins felt darker throughout the game.
And I prefer Origins (for so many reasons) and would like to see a darker tone in the next game. Still love Inquisition though.
As for the whole race thing, I am from Sweden and is very interested in history (I work as a tourguide in a renaissance castle) and it bothered me too. Not that there was people of different colour, but that there was no explanation to why. There could just have been a codex somewhere, "Because so many people died in Ferelden during the Blight a lot of people from Rivain moved there to start farming the land" - just something.
Since, and I feel the authour of that article got this right, there were no people of colour (or hardly) and it is set in a medieval Europe-type land it is "weird" that there suddenly are so many different ethnicities in just about 5 years (Chantry blows up in 9.37, Inquisition starts late 9.42 I think)
I get why there's suddenly so many different skincolours, both because it's more politically correct but also, and this is a really good thing, so that more people can play as their skincolour and not feel so "left out" because of the surroundings. I am not a POC myself so...
I just know that like the author of the article it would not bother me to play as a person of colour in a game set in africa for example, but I would feel left out if I hardly ever could play as a white person. So I get it.
Wow, this i the most I have ever written about the colour of peoples skin, and its just 7.30 in the morning.
I'm a hilarious guy for sure. Though I'm not trying to rile people up. If anything my whole schtick is to dispel all this Liberal bias and ignorance around here. I feel legitimate pity for those blind enough to think equality and """progression""" are good things. It makes me wish they could see the truth, but as they say, the truth is always met with mockery first. Then anger. Then acceptance.
Well, its good of you to tell us the reality of the situation. Because you come off like a guy who's so scared of the possibility that he might be talking to a girl that he pretends that they don't exist on the internet, and who is so desperate for attention that he says the most stupid thing that pops into his head in any topic where he finds people he might get a rise out of.
The rule you cite, about women on the net mostly being imaginary constructs, that's mostly for the offers and chat ads you receive on seedy pornography sites. That's quite true.
Gaming fans? Tons of women. Try not to panic, but you're surrounded by women. Lady Art? Woman. Hazegurl? Woman. Most of the topics in the story section...Cullen, Solas, Sera, Blackwall? Lots of women. But don't worry. They aren't infectious.
I'm a hilarious guy for sure. Though I'm not trying to rile people up. If anything my whole schtick is to dispel all this Liberal bias and ignorance around here. I feel legitimate pity for those blind enough to think equality and """progression""" are good things.
Yeah, I really hate being able to vote and own things and buy contraception. Oh, wait. No I don't.
(I'd offer to show my boobs as proof that I'm an actual, factual lady, but some people around here clearly couldn't handle them.)
Well, its good of you to tell us the reality of the situation. Because you come off like a guy who's so scared of the possibility that he might be talking to a girl that he pretends that they don't exist on the internet, and who is so desperate for attention that he says the most stupid thing that pops into his head in any topic where he finds people he might get a rise out of.
The rule you cite, about women on the net mostly being imaginary constructs, that's mostly for the offers and chat ads you receive on seedy pornography sites. That's quite true.
Gaming fans? Tons of women. Try not to panic, but you're surrounded by women. Lady Art? Woman. Hazegurl? Woman. Most of the topics in the story section...Cullen, Solas, Sera, Blackwall? Lots of women. But don't worry. They aren't infectious.
Riddle me this then, pumpkin: how do you know they're women? To you they're also words on a screen. Pictures of "bewbs" or whatever like this guy's claiming he'd send aren't cutting it. I can head over to any number of chans and grab 500 pictures of ****** that could pass someone for a woman. It means nothing.
You choose to believe them, and in gaming women always get attention. It's why all the female streamers show off their cleavage, because drooling morons will donate to them because OMG I LUV GURLZ. It's also why some men are feminists; they think sucking up to women will get them laid. Whether they admit it or not.
Let me make it clear I don't hate women, at all. Being sexist doesn't mean that. It means I distrust women, particularly modern "Third wave feminist" ones, because their track record is one of deceit, manipulation, and addiction to attention. Women are fine, but many are not, and hence I take up a distrusting attitude. I also hate seeing people try to say men and women are equal, because they're not. At all. Our brains, our bodies, our hormones, our chemicals, our basic evolution; all of it is different. Saying "we're not equal" isn't condemning anyone, it's stating the truth. Men are not women, women are not men. Neither group can ever be the other.
As I said, they're all words on a screen. You can believe they're women if you choose, but I choose not to, not when blatant deception tactics and manipulation go on right in front of you.
Let me remind you of this though, fledgling male feminist; you're what we call a "beta". Your feminist ideas won't get you any closer to a girl's small clothes, but you'll figure that out eventually.
Yeah, I really hate being able to vote and own things and buy contraception. Oh, wait. No I don't.
(I'd offer to show my boobs as proof that I'm an actual, factual lady, but some people around here clearly couldn't handle them.)
I'm more focusing on girl-fakers right now. But yeah, I'm a bit of a sexist. The mistrusting type if you will.
You just sound like an annoying MGTOW, who's been hurt by a woman. it's okay bro life goes on.
What does MGTOW mean?
Men going their own way. It's basically an equivalent to feminazis
Men going their own way. It's basically an equivalent to feminazis
Ahh. Foreigner here. I fall short when it comes to terms like that. Thanks for the info. I learn something every day.
Let me remind you of this though, fledgling male feminist; you're what we call a "beta". Your feminist ideas won't get you any closer to a girl's small clothes, but you'll figure that out eventually.
Oh sweetling, the things I could tell you about women's and men's small clothes would make you blush. And almost certainly retch out of mortal terror for your own manhood, but that would just add to the hilarity
Oh sweetling, the things I could tell you about women's and men's small clothes would make you blush. And almost certainly retch out of mortal terror for your own manhood, but that would just add to the hilarity
I've been around an infinite number of blocks, which is why I know what I'm talking about more than you ever could on your keyboard.
You're still naive and ignorant bud, you'll learn eventually. And when that day comes you'll see how disgusting feminism and the entire cult-like psychopathy of Cultural Marxism is.
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