26 réponses à ce sujet

[MrNo]

OK, feel really lazy to go through 6 pages of "yeah, thanks great, etc" - so let's summarize here: Which of the changes really matter? Which abilities will show up now in the "best perilous builds"? Drasca? Penguin? Others?

[Dieb]

OK, feel really lazy to go through 6 pages of "yeah, thanks great, etc" - so let's summarize here:

 

Uh... what? No, let's not.

 

All of them matter to some, so take some goddamn time to read through Luke's thread he created just for the occasion, and even takes the time to answer individual questions.

 

Jesus, brother.

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

CALTROPS. That's all you need to know. You still need to read Luke's thread really, but the only nerf you need to be aware of is walking fortress, and alchemists and Hunters are much better. 

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Caltrops has become mainstream.

[MrNo]

Of course I read Luke's post, which is why I started this thread. I just won't read the 6 pages of "great thanks" posts - I agree with them but don't see the point of reading each. 

 

I love the new changes, just curious to see how it will affect the widely accepted "ideal" builds for each character. 

[ALTBOULI]

Immolate is a lot better now, I've even replaced firemine with it - which makes the Ele a lot less of a static character imo. Spiketrap has had quite a significant buff and its something I now plan to use even on the archer

[Drasca]

All of them matter to some, so take some goddamn time to read through Luke's thread he created just for the occasion, and even takes the time to answer individual questions.

 

It is a fair question to ask, but there needs to be some directing to that question. What he's implying is that what changes matter to MrNo.

 

 

"best perilous builds"? Drasca? Penguin? Others?

 

The changes that affect you and your team, are the ones that matter.

 

I am answering for myself, because I only care about the changes that affect me (and my teams). It may not apply to you. As with my perilous builds, they're my favorites, and they're the best for me and can be modified to be best for your individual tastes as they're an excellent starting point.

 

The changes that affect me the most are the archer changes. His longshot absolutely requires LS ring now, and his other attacks are better, making them useful.

 

I don't think I'll use Alchemist yet. Even with the boost, it is inherently pretty bad. Poison is still too weak for me. The flasks work against each other too, since you cannot use both at the same time to gain the benefit of both.

 

Hunter got better, but OK & LS is still too good by comparison. I am interested in that new spike trap though.

 

Reaver's RoP is nice, but too situational. I've been testing it out, and combat roll provides more consistent offense + defensive, removing downtime whie RoP increases downtime. RoP + Devour would be good if WH+CR wasn't so much better. Still the option is there for other players, just not mine. . . because Rampage + WH = full health + aoe damage & panic vs Devour's not even close to full health.

 

Looking forward to testing out Lego's new L&S. His L&S was awesome before, and now it may allow him to one shot things.  SB's damage increase isn't as impressive due to no multiplier. I may put Crit Damage bonus rings on and see what happens though. Maybe the ability ring too.

 

I still wouldn't use Unbowed even with 12s. Guard is trash. CC cleanse is nice, but I don't need that as a shield user.

 

ESS is definitely better now. It was ok before, and better now. I need to test it with the abilty ring too. The 2nd strike isn't hitting consistently, and the first strike is still hard to hit with too. It could stand to gain a boost given how inconsistent ESS hits. If you manage to hit things at all, you're pretty skilled or lucky.

 

EB: I probably still wouldn't take it, even with the damage increase. The slow indirect way the projectiles travel prevent it from being a useful option. If Luke Barret was able to increase the speed of these projectiles by 300%, maybe. . . but long cast time + long projectile travel time + indirect pathing = waste of my time, because none of those shots will hit before my target is killed or has dodged it.  The only enemy that is truly vulnerable to this is the Red Templar Commander while being put to sleep, but if my target is him, he's vulnerable regardless. Other abilties do EB's job much better.

 

Maybe, just maybe if I'm directly underneath the frost dragon, I'd consider this ability. Nah. She'll run away before it matters.

 

Firestorm's damage nerf does not matter much. FS's utility is in the AoE KD. Even if it did one damage, it enables so much more damage from the party.

 

LB: Looking forward to testing this a bit more, but I don't expect it to be used much. I kind of want Keepers to have this spell option.

 

FM: Disappointed with the nerfs. The burst damage is what matters, and the burning DoTs may overwrite each other (need more testing to confirm), so the DoT 'buffs' may not be useful at all, resulting in a nerf of fire damage overall. FM wasn't used much except by elite players anyway. Immolate is what noobs use.

 

Horror + WB: I still wouldn't upgrade Horror, because fear will disappear from direct damage, and I'm not certain the damage portion won't disappear as well. Need testing but.. the dots are not so useful vs additional passives.

 

I like the WB mana decrease.  The damage reduction isn't signifigant because her real damage comes from having critical mass nearby.

[Laforgus]

CALTROPS. That's all you need to know. You still need to read Luke's thread really, but the only nerf you need to be aware of is walking fortress, and alchemists and Hunters are much better. 

 

Yess, now we have that skill in the 4 slots

 

Immolate is a lot better now, I've even replaced firemine with it - which makes the Ele a lot less of a static character imo. Spiketrap has had quite a significant buff and its something I now plan to use even on the archer

Replace? why?

 

You know, you can use both?

 

[Drasca]

Yess, now we have that skill in the 4 slots

 

Replace? why?

 

You know, you can use both?

 

 

Why can't I have both spike trap and fire mine on the same character? Why?!?!?

[yarpenthemad21]

Some changes in balance changed my builds.

Firstly it's Lightning Bolt. In theory nothing special, but now spammable pretty much and what's more important paralyze works on both venatori stalkers and red templar shadows. Ferelden castle map is full of both so it helps a lot.
It changed my elementalist build to Immolate + Lightning Bolt. 400% fire DoT damage from Immolate makes this skills hit for around 800% at start and dot hits hard now + Lightning Bolt + immolate on ele can kill every annoying mob (shadows, DD, stalkers) because of added basic combo damage. This combo is maybe more mana consuming but way more faster then aiming with fire mine which I don't like at all. I don't care if fire mine is "elite" skill or not, for me it's bullshit. If I have shadow on my ass, aiming with fire mine with 2 seconds delay can't end well.
Hard to say how it would work on keeper but it works very well for me on Ele.

Second skill is lunge and slash. Damage is very high now.

[Drasca]

 If I have shadow on my ass, aiming with fire mine with 2 seconds delay can't end well.

 

Open the game standing on a FM at all times. Enemy Shadow/Stalkers blow up and die when they approach you, failing to damage you as they attempt their attack. Fun times.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like how you used LB there.

[yarpenthemad21]

Open the game standing on a FM at all times. Enemy Shadow/Stalkers blow up and die when they approach you, failing to damage you as they attempt their attack. Fun times.
 
Don't get me wrong, I like how you used LB there.

Yes I know it, but in this scenario fire mine is a defensive skill. Either I use it offensively and blow up some random mobs with it or for my own protection. Hard to use both, because it end up with Benny Hill running around with shadow on my ass. When I use immolate for 100% I deal damage. With fire it's not true anymore.

For me it's just, I would call it responsiveness vs damage. Immolate it's like opportunity attack. Some random archer standing alone and shoot at you, boom. Someone used PotA, Static Cage and mobs are stacked in spot, boom. Some sleep on mobs, boom. Some annoying stalker running around you, boom and he is on fire.
With mine it's like playing chess. What does this party member do. Where this mobs go, where should I plant this mine. It's a matter of preference. I like gameplay made around reaction to action, not made around prediction.

Upgraded version of Ligtning Bolt (not needed really but still) has some knock back element and can hit hard. When for example 3-4 stalkers dancing around party (on Castle it's normal) it can CC for short time other stalkers (or shadows). When use from distance on group of mobs it can hit quite hard and could help with those mobs with resistance to fire.
It's also a paralyze after all and some archer or someone for example can take use of it.

[Drasca]

Upgraded version of Ligtning Bolt (not needed really but still) has some knock back element and can hit hard. When for example 3-4 stalkers dancing around party (on Castle it's normal) it can CC for short time other stalkers (or shadows). When use from distance on group of mobs it can hit quite hard and could help with those mobs with resistance to fire.
It's also a paralyze after all and some archer or someone for example can take use of it.

 

Oh yeah. Loving this.

 

 

Yes I know it, but in this scenario fire mine is a defensive skill. Either I use it offensively and blow up some random mobs with it or for my own protection. Hard to use both, because it end up with Benny Hill running around with shadow on my ass. When I use immolate for 100% I deal damage. With fire it's not true anymore.

 

What do you mean with fire its not true anymore? Because last I checked (and I do need to recheck), Immolate isn't lethal. FM will blow up those 3-4 stalkers all at once.

 

 

 Someone used PotA, Static Cage and mobs are stacked in spot, boom . Some sleep on mobs, boom. Some annoying stalker running around you, boom and he is on fire.

 

This is more true for FM than Immo.

 

 

With mine it's like playing chess Where this mobs will go is where should I plant this mine

 

FTFY. I do like the chess analogy though. Playing reactively however is not controlling the situation to your favor. You should have FW & FS around for AoE Panic and Knockdown (even though I absolutely love what you are doing with LB). I wish I had more slots but, I know why they're not available.

 

Also you should have Static Charge, which means anything that attacks you while casting will be paralyzed-- including fire mine. That buys time to complete your cast, no matter what your spell, including fire mine to blow everything up should you use FM reactively.

[yarpenthemad21]

Oh yeah. Loving this.
 
 
What do you mean with fire its not true anymore? Because last I checked (and I do need to recheck), Immolate isn't lethal. FM will blow up those 3-4 stalkers all at once.
 
 
This is more true for FM than Immo.
 
 
FTFY. I do like the chess analogy though. Playing reactively however is not controlling the situation to your favor. You should have FW & FS around for AoE Panic and Knockdown (even though I absolutely love what you are doing with LB). I wish I had more slots but, I know why they're not available.
 
Also you should have Static Charge, which means anything that attacks you while casting will be paralyzed-- including fire mine. That buys time to complete your cast, no matter what your spell, including fire mine to blow everything up should you use FM reactively.

it should be
When I use immolate for 100% I deal damage. With fire mine it's not true anymore.

Blowing 3-4 stalkers with fire mine. I've probably saw it once They love to dance around, not stack in once place.

Damage for immolate. For me on normal targets it's around 600 damage direct and around the same from DoT fire. At start it's 1200. Another thick and we have 1800, second thick is also after 2 seconds I think. In the meantime I use autoattack.
Fire mine deals 1200% so around 1800 damage for me + dot damage around 800. But after those 2 seconds delay. Autoattack also from start.
Main goal is to kill as fast as possible. If we take this 3 seconds period of time, I personally prefer immolate version, mostly because fire mine would be most of the time an overkill. Also immolate can crit which makes it even better, for fire mine crit is just an overkill in that scenario.
+ we need to add some mobs which aren't full health. There damaged by whatever and in that scenario immolate clearly wins.
Still it's a matter of preference. Maybe I suck with fire mine. It's those small things like aiming manually to hit 3 moving mobs, reacting for some sleep, stacked mobs etc. I can't do it fire mine, probably because I clearly sucks with it.

As for the fire mine on static cage/pota. Most of the time (99%) it's reaction. "Oh someone used pota/static cage here". Let me set them on fire. Fire mine delay break all fun for me, sometimes instead of group of mobs some single one is damaged or everything is dead and mine is wasted.
+ with Static cage I have a control when to use it and I can detonate those paralyzed stacked mobs for added damage, around 500% from what I remember.
Also I have some strange problem with both mines (ice and fire) that when I cast them too fast they just don't appear at all.

As for the Static Charge, sure I have it, it's cheap in my build because I even use LB. It's another paralyze which could be detonated with immolate.

[Drasca]

it should be
When I use immolate for 100% I deal damage. With fire mine it's not true anymore.

Blowing 3-4 stalkers with fire mine. I've probably saw it once They love to dance around, not stack in once place.

 

Frame of reference helps. FM is a Perilous difficulty ability, Immolate is better on Threatening and below, as enemies don't have enough HP on threatening to justify FM's increased cd. Also, what's wrong with a little (ok, a lot) of overkill? 

 

Blowing up 4x stalkers with a fire mine usually involves Pota / Cage. It is really fun to watch. It also usually involves a dozen other enemies at dying once too.

 

You should consider chaotic focus to boost FM's damage by sacrificing barrier. You won't want to go back after seeing 4-5k non-crit FM vs normal enemies and 9k+ vs Fire vulnerable enemies.

[Shiratori]

Horror + WB: I still wouldn't upgrade Horror, because fear will disappear from direct damage, and I'm not certain the damage portion won't disappear as well. Need testing but.. the dots are not so useful vs additional passives.

While I haven't done much with the Necromancer post updates yet, pre-patch upgraded Horror still did dot even if the fear effect was gone or never applied in the first place because of immunity. Granted the damage wasn't much but it worked for me until I could get WB. So I'm figuring that it would still be the same now as well.

[yarpenthemad21]

Frame of reference helps. FM is a Perilous difficulty ability, Immolate is better on Threatening and below, as enemies don't have enough HP on threatening to justify FM's increased cd. Also, what's wrong with a little (ok, a lot) of overkill? 
 
Blowing up 4x stalkers with a fire mine usually involves Pota / Cage. It is really fun to watch. It also usually involves a dozen other enemies at dying once too.
 
You should consider chaotic focus to boost FM's damage by sacrificing barrier. You won't want to go back after seeing 4-5k non-crit FM vs normal enemies and 9k+ vs Fire vulnerable enemies.

Overkill is an overkill. High numbers but nothing gained really. I remember the same problem in ME3MP. "Wow my jevelin headshot damaged for 15k on this trooper". And? He has 2k hp...

[ALTBOULI]

Yess, now we have that skill in the 4 slots
 

Replace? why?
 
You know, you can use both?
 

Becauase i'm happy with the other 3 powers so Firemine is the one that gets replaced

[Drasca]

Overkill is an overkill. High numbers but nothing gained really. I remember the same problem in ME3MP. "Wow my jevelin headshot damaged for 15k on this trooper". And? He has 2k hp...

 

High numbers on Despair demon definitely gained. Difference between dead DD and living one wrecking your face.

[yarpenthemad21]

High numbers on Despair demon definitely gained. Difference between dead DD and living one wrecking your face.

DD without barrier has problems surviving initial immolate, it hits 1k direct non-crit and 1k DoT + DD can be paralyzed. Still I don't know exact DD health and barrier values on perilous.
As for fire mine. Jumping around cooldown is maybe longer but this annoying piece of flying despair with my luck would dodge every fire mine. This cheating bastard can even still use this cold beam of death when paralyzed.

[FRZN]

While I haven't done much with the Necromancer post updates yet, pre-patch upgraded Horror still did dot even if the fear effect was gone or never applied in the first place because of immunity. Granted the damage wasn't much but it worked for me until I could get WB. So I'm figuring that it would still be the same now as well.

Yep, it still keeps going after the fear breaks post patch.

[konfeta]

Burning status effect DoTs don't stack, it just uses the highest one. Unless Bioware ninja changed this in one of their patches, but that's how it was shortly after release when I tested.

[Drasca]

 this annoying piece of flying despair with my luck would dodge every fire mine. This cheating bastard can even still use this cold beam of death when paralyzed.

 

Yeah, you can fire mine while she's doing his Ice beam, or when she's paralyzed, but the standard tactic to do is Firewall --> Panic in place --> Fire Mine --> Finished.

 

If you're not playing perilous, immo is better, but in Perilous 2k damage merely tickles the DD, and it'll turn on its barrier afterward that'll absorb over 7k damage while you immolate them. You absolutely need around 4k+ damage just to eat through its health. Its barrier is a lot more, and Immolate will never kill the despair demon alone. It'll recast barrier before immolate's burn will finish it off.

[FRZN]

Burning status effect DoTs don't stack, it just uses the highest one. Unless Bioware ninja changed this in one of their patches, but that's how it was shortly after release when I tested.

I'm pretty sure it actually uses the one that was applied first.  If you set someone on fire with WoF and then hit them with immolate or fire mine you'll still only be doing 200%.

[Drasca]

Overkill is an overkill. High numbers but nothing gained really. I remember the same problem in ME3MP. "Wow my jevelin headshot damaged for 15k on this trooper". And? He has 2k hp...

 

Keep in mind, you might actually need that 15k damage vs a DD with full barrier in Perilous, while 2k damage won't bother the DD at all.