193 réponses à ce sujet

[ZoliCs]

Just my take friend...no need to get upset. 

Point taken, sometimes I'm being too forward. What I said is still true though.

If those races are brought back it should be because they have a good story and not simply for fan service.

They are not mutually exclusive though. If people want the Geth, Rachni, Batarian, etc to return I doubt Bioware couldn't write a good story for them, whether it was their intention to bring them back all along or they were just convinced by the fans.

Some of them are harder to bring back then others, but I'd take contrived writing over not having iconic races back.

[BraveVesperia]

Tali and Legion were two of my personal favorites, but I'd be completely fine moving on without either race.  There is little more either can contribute to a larger story.  Both were integral to the larger Reaper plot (disproving the Catalyst's assertion that organics and synthetics cannot coexist if you went that route.)  And having a Tali/Legion 2.0 doesn't seem like it could contribute much on a more intimate level.  Now something like HK-47 could be hellafun.  "Meat-bags."

I wouldn't want a Tali or Legion 2.0, but I do think it would be interesting to have a quarian or geth as squadmates again.

 

It would probably be easier to achieve a totally new quarian perspective than a geth (like if Tali had been replaced with Koris or Reegar). If the geth live, then the Reaper code will presmably make them more individualistic than Legion, which would be interesting. If anything, a new geth squadmate could end up more like EDI 2.0 (in terms of her personal story).

[Helios969]

Goes without saying that applies to all the races. Though as a previous poster pointed out no more fricking daddy issues. It's become ridiculous.

[Vortex13]

If the Geth (or the robotic Andromeda equivalent) show up in the new game, I hope for two things to be present in said character's portrayal:

 

 

1.

I don't want to see another Pinocchio "I wanna be a real boy/girl!" trope. Legion and the Geth, EDI, Commander Data, etc. its all overdone, and frankly (IMO) rather boring. What makes being like us so special again? Would a machine intelligence really want to experience what emotion is? Would it be at all interested in giving up all of it's innate differences and/or advantages in the name of love?

 

It's all very sappy and romantic to believe that everyone wants to be just like us but an intelligence based on logic, on viewing the universe in 1s and 0s, would have a wholly different, and alien perspective on things. Sure, a machine can't 'love' like we organics can, but it can also experience the world around it in ways that we cannot hope to possibly imagine. I think that this clip sums up the divergence nicely:

Spoiler

 

 

 

2.

Going off the first point, I don't want to see an AI that actually likes being an AI to be presented as the villain of the narrative. Just because an intelligence doesn't want to be like us ≠ "Kill all Humans"; a robotic entity can recognize the differences between organics and synthetics without a sense of superiority, or genocidal tendencies. In ME 2, Legion and the Geth strove to understand organics, but they didn't want to become them. Understanding is conductive to interaction, and an AI would understand the logic in trying to learn the idiocentricties of organic life, just as learning the perspectives of synthetics will help organics understand them. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

Dragon Age removing or dumbing down its fantasy creatures, Mass Effect removing, killing off, making fun of, or 'fixing' it's alien elements, etc. I want to believe that we will see Andromeda aliens of the same caliber of the Rachni, or (ME 2) Geth, but the established track record of their games favors ditching the weird, non-human things in favor of stuff that we can immediately recognize (i.e. every companion having 'Daddy Issues').

 

I'm fine with companions having difficult pasts, but I did think that the portrayal of family issues got a bit extreme at times in Mass Effect. If family issues are going to come up, I'd rather see more along the lines of Garrus's family, i.e. not perfect but not horrible either. But at least 3 squadmates ended up literally killing a family member or trying to (Samara, Miranda, Wrex), and Liara can help kill indoctrinated-Benezia if your bring her to the labs.

[CrutchCricket]

But why does it say that line for this situation specifically? Shepard's line comes right after "What did we do wrong?" and there were other instances of discussing individuality when it does not express the same disturbance. I think there may be more to this. That revelation shows it that the geth are closer to organics than it thought. This thought is what creates the disturbance, not the very thought of organics valuing individuality.

1. Yeah. It might even be that there are no mobile platforms but the geth are still there.
2. You mentioned it yourself. Units worked in agricultural, military, household areas, they'd have access to technology in those sectors. Communicating with the speed of light can result in a simultaneous disastrous strike on quarian infrastructure, throwing them into disarray. We are talking about such highly technological society where cybernetic implantation is considered normal. 
3. What I meant is that the Quarians have unique circumstances. Something like "All organics are the same, but the Quarians are those who created us". The definitions for organics as a whole still apply to the Quarians but they also get unique variables as creators.
4. Yes, it failed, and the geth still didn't break control. That's what I meant, Overlord tech controls the geth, there are no examples of it failing in that department. Operator becoming crazy, sure, but the geth will still be under control.
5. I think so too, though I would love a Quarian squadmate

 

None of those other instances carried the notion of geth in conflict with themselves. Organics can be in conflict with themselves and it seems to work out. For geth this is a very alien notion. Take whatever foreign idea or perspective you wish. You understand and accept it in others. But it would be strange, disturbing even if you suddenly found it in yourself one day. Feeling this disturbance is not intrinsically organic. I think it's a disturbance any intellect would feel at the sudden revalation of something fundamentally not "it" being discovered within. Everything is defined by its limits. Putting something outside those limits within seems logically nonsensical.

1. (previously 2) Yes but that didn't happen right away. It took a while for the geth to master the idea of self-preservation. And even when they did, it wouldn't be instantaneous Skynet. Geth were given the ability to network but it's still not logical that a vacuum cleaner would intrinsically have the protocols to network with a defense platform instantly.  For a real life parallel, consider how much of a nuisance it is to network different versions of Windows . And they're supposed to be roughly the same thing. So I think it's very likely it took a while even after the first geth thought "wait, no I can fight back" before the geth were able to organize into what we see today. And in the quarians kept hacking away with guns and holding magnets up to geth's faces.
2. Sure.
3. Unless they were heretics and killing all humans was what they had planned for that afternoon anyway.   But the situation you mention does not specify that control was intact. David not responding to stimuli could be interpreted in different ways. Either he stopped communicating altogether, with Cerberus and the geth (in which case the geth would be free and they would've had to liquidate the entire facility, not just euthanize David). Or David stopped responding to just Cerberus but still communed with the geth in which case Overlord didn't fail but just stopped being useful. So maybe it's not precedent either but the key factor here is a mind of David's level (and brand) of autism, constantly in contact with the geth is what's needed to control them. That and probably jamming them from contacting the other geth. It stands to reason that a lesser mind could not do this as well or could not do so indefinitely. Hence control would eventually fail. Or if you're a real stickler for precedent, the next David could similarly become unresponsive and get euthanized, only the geth are not eradicated like before.
4. I had an idea for that in another thread, can't find it now. Basically just went with the opposite of what we know to subvert expectations and all that. I think it was something along the lines of a male exile anti-Migrant Fleet... and who likes AI . Or if we want to avoid current stereotypes, maybe give him an interest in biology as opposed to engineering.

[fyz306903]

If we can't see the Quarians or Geth (i.e. whole races and hub worlds). Bioware could at least let us see a Quarian and a Geth. Although the idea of visiting a Geth/Quarian/Both owned hub world sounds amazing, if this Ark/Andromeda galaxy theory is true, then we won't see any 'old' species homeworlds even if there are any. (At whatever year the game is set). However, to make the Ark shop hub as interesting as possible, it'd be nice to have at least one of every race on board so we can get to know them and help each other as the species try to establish new colonies for humanity. I can't see why a Quarian advisor and a 'Legion 2.0' could be sent with the human pathfinder, and as people have said, every species (apart from maybe the Hanar, Elcor and Vorcha) have tons of fans who love them, so It'd be a real shame to say goodbye to any of them for good. This isn't like Dragon Age where we see Dwarves and Elves all the time in everything, ME is the only place to meet these 'species' so I doubt Bioware would ditch any of them completely. (but, then again, maybe I'm just massively biased as Tali and Legion (particularly Legion) are probably my most favourite Sci-Fi characters of all time- I even liked Legion in ME3 apart from the 'i can do any electronic miracle apart from copy and paste data' death scene that will p***es me off to this day.

 

Maybe we'll get hints at old characters/races in DLC. I'd sure prefer that to unlocking suspiciously empty rooms in the Ark Ship. 

 

(deep breath) Sorry for the essay!  

[fyz306903]

I wouldn't want a Tali or Legion 2.0, but I do think it would be interesting to have a quarian or geth as squadmates again.

 

It would probably be easier to achieve a totally new quarian perspective than a geth (like if Tali had been replaced with Koris or Reegar). If the geth live, then the Reaper code will presmably make them more individualistic than Legion, which would be interesting. If anything, a new geth squadmate could end up more like EDI 2.0 (in terms of her personal story).

What you said about the geth was interesting. A spec. ops. LEgion type with repaper code upgrades could be a very interesting character. Also, It'd be nice to hear about how the Quarians/Geth are getting on (or not) after ME3, even if we don't see it.

[SerriceIceDandy]

We're just postulating at this point, and the current status of the Geth and Quarians is just pure conjecture as we don't know how or when this game connects to Mass Effect 3's plot; if it does at all. So basically, we don't know what events happened during the Reaper War, their respective fates afterwards, or if even the Reaper War even happened on the timeline of this game. Theoretically they could still both exist; they may still be antagonistic to each other; they may have brokered peace on their own; one may have decimated the other. 

I personally hope that we do get to see the Quarians again. Physically, they may not be all that unique (although easily retconned), but culturally they were interesting. And I always wanted to learn more about them beyond their prejudices against the Geth, the suspicion given to them by the Council Species, and their attempt to reclaim Rannoch. The ideal way I'd like to see them is how the peace resolution depicted them with a symbiotic relationship; and maybe one or two Geth Platforms for good measure. With all the new environments they'd be exposed to, they could still even be in their enviro-suits.

However, if memory serves, in the survey Bioware did of species' popularity Quarians fell rather short; it's possible that they may not include them. On the flip-side, Tali was one of the most popular characters of Shepard's crew. So really it could go either way.

[fyz306903]

However, if memory serves, in the survey Bioware did of species' popularity Quarians fell rather short;

 

I wouldn't pay attention to those surveys unless they received results from a massive amount of people. If the survey only had, say, 1000 replies, then they results might decide how much screen time each species gets, but not anything else.

[fyz306903]

Legion can't be "rebuilt." Legion was a collective of programs that was taken apart and dispersed among the Geth or killed by Shepard before uploading "himself" to another platform.

 

Hey, remember this is Sci-Fi, the retcon's best friend. This is why all this speculation is pretty pointless at the moment.

1. Someone can simply 'find a way' to rebuild the Geth, despite what was said in ME trilogy. remember, we only see AI's physical bodies die. Their software and the facilities to rebuild them could easily exist. Also, it'd be a great way to redesign the Geth if Bioware so wished.

2. The synthesis 'green glow' can just turn out to be temporary

3. The benevolent reapers can simply hide just like the Ranchi did in ME2.

 

Bioware have got much better writers than me (obviously) so homogenising the 3 endings with literally just 3-4 dialogue changes shouldn't be any trouble. In any case, I'm sure Bioware will sidestep the ending completely and we'll see something of all the races just because people will be disappointed if they don't see them. Although, IMO, I doubt many will care if the boring Elcor and Hanar will appear.

[Quarian Master Race]

I personally hope that we do get to see the Quarians again. Physically, they may not be all that unique (although easily retconned), but culturally they were interesting. And I always wanted to learn more about them beyond their prejudices against the Geth, the suspicion given to them by the Council Species, and their attempt to reclaim Rannoch. The ideal way I'd like to see them is how the peace resolution depicted them with a symbiotic relationship; and maybe one or two Geth Platforms for good measure. With all the new environments they'd be exposed to, they could still even be in their enviro-suits.

However, if memory serves, in the survey Bioware did of species' popularity Quarians fell rather short; it's possible that they may not include them. On the flip-side, Tali was one of the most popular characters of Shepard's crew. So really it could go either way.

I disagree that the quarians are not physically unique, insofar as that refers to all biology and not just the near-human appearance (which can be easily retconned as mentioned, especially because we have only seen the faces of all of 2 of them). The immune system peculiarities and implications on their character design, how it interacted with and influenced the culture and ultimately fed into their motivations behind regaining the homeworld was fascinating and something that I can't remember being done in my (admittedly limited) knowledge of scifi species before. 

I couldn't care less about aliens having mandibles and cranial plates if they are just going to be militaristic, hyperintelligent or violent humans, because it's all pretty much been done before anyway. It's much harder to do, but exploring the implications of medical/biological differences and peculiarities on culture is far more interesting if we're just going to be using humanoids anyway. Salarian metabolism is something that I think they could have done much more with as well, rather than just making them all speak a bit more quickly. 

As for the popularity contest, well, one would hope that isn't how things are decided but we've seen examples of it before. Liara, Garrus and Tali, for example being writer or fan favourites giving them a bit more immunity to being given a backseat role. That said, I think that same poll you mention also had krogan placed fairly low, and they're all but confirmed. In my experience, the quarians are one of the more popular species, but opinions are very much love or hate due to their antagonistic relationship with the geth (who tend to elicit the same sort of opinions for the same reason). There are very few "meh" opinions of either like you get with some of the other races, which I think in and of itself is a good reason to keep them both.

 

[Display Name Owner]

Would Geth have a need to move into Andromeda, now that I think about it? They don't need space or resources in the same way Organics do, in fact their ultimate goal would've led to them taking up less space than before, although that was before the Pinnochio code...

 

Then again I can't see why any race would need any more space than there is in the Milky Way. But still, Geth don't have the same needs or interests organics do, there's not much reason for them to go beyond the space they already occupy. It might be a potential justification for a handwave.

[SerriceIceDandy]

I disagree that the quarians are not physically unique, insofar as that refers to all biology and not just the near-human appearance (which can be easily retconned as mentioned, especially because we have only seen the faces of all of 2 of them). The immune system peculiarities and implications on their character design, how it interacted with and influenced the culture and ultimately fed into their motivations behind regaining the homeworld was fascinating and something that I can't remember being done in my (admittedly limited) knowledge of scifi species before. 
 

100% agree. By 'physical' I meant purely superficial (my bad for not making it clear), not their physiology which is pretty damn fascinating.

Being more awake, I think the survey, and the article associated with it was looking at player choices from ME3 and hinting about how that may reflect upon their development decisions. This one being addressed was that most players chose the Geth over the Quarians in Priority: Rannoch; so easy to make assumptions that if pressed, they might make the same decision. Again, pure conjecture and I doubt they'd abandon such a key race.

And whilst Tali's face reveal (I'm not aware of the other one, do tell!) was pretty underwhelming - given the highlighted features of Quarian's faces through the helmets, we should have been expecting a very human-structured face anyway. And iirc, in game or dev post, someone said that Quarians were the closest genetically to humans.

Whilst the Asari aren't really all that great, I'd be gutted to see any major civilisations go.

[Quarian Master Race]

100% agree. By 'physical' I meant purely superficial (my bad for not making it clear), not their physiology which is pretty damn fascinating.

Being more awake, I think the survey, and the article associated with it was looking at player choices from ME3 and hinting about how that may reflect upon their development decisions. This one being addressed was that most players chose the Geth over the Quarians in Priority: Rannoch; so easy to make assumptions that if pressed, they might make the same decision. Again, pure conjecture and I doubt they'd abandon such a key race.

And whilst Tali's face reveal (I'm not aware of the other one, do tell!) was pretty underwhelming - given the highlighted features of Quarian's faces through the helmets, we should have been expecting a very human-structured face anyway. And iirc, in game or dev post, someone said that Quarians were the closest genetically to humans.

Whilst the Asari aren't really all that great, I'd be gutted to see any major civilisations go.

I wouldn't say most players did. In collected statistics on player data, there was something like 10% less people siding with the quarians than each of the other options (which were about even). Considering that the peace option was relatively difficult to access (not availiable at all for non imports), and the dualistic morality system assigned the renegade option to the quarians (combined with an obviously biased portrayal that attempted to rewrite the lore on geth to portray them solely as victims) when "evil" is generally the less preferred option by players in RPGs, its not hard to see why the geth had a slight advantage in that one. Nothing like the Genophage where players overwhelmingly chose to cure on the order of +90%, even with the majority of players not having Wrex. Or the ending, choices, where at least half of the players chose destroy. Or the P/R split, where there were about twice as many paragons as renegades. I'd reasonably assume that the vast majority of people probably would have chosen to keep both species were it possible in their playthroughs, with a small minority still choosing one or the other mostly for moral or ideological reasons.

Yeah, I always tell people that when they start asking why the quarian apperance couldn't be more alien. It was always obvious that they were going to be mammalian humanoids of some sort just looking at their body structures and the features behind the opaque visors, though its fair to say that they could have still been more different within those confines (personally, I would have liked to have seen more visible evidence of their cited propensity for cybernetic augmentation). The other quarian can be seen in the Extended Cut ending slides if neither the quarians or geth are killed off and you choose synthesis.

there's also a male in the background but you can't make out much of his features

[SerriceIceDandy]

Ah yes, forgot about the ending slides! Did we ever find out what made their eyes glow pre-synthesis?

[Vespervin]

I really hope the quarians return. I'm fine with them being more human-like, I actually prefer it that way. I don't like how Tali's image was just a bad photoshop, but that doesn't mean I don't like how they're human looking.

 

I hope the quarians return, and I hope that BioWare sticks to how they look based off of what we see of Tali and the quarian without a mask from the extended cut. But all of this is just my opinion on it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There was also Cerberus looking over a Quarian body in one of the books that described them as a lot like humans, the noted difference being their ears.

[Quarian Master Race]

Ah yes, forgot about the ending slides! Did we ever find out what made their eyes glow pre-synthesis?

Never explained, though there are any number of reasons for bio-luminescent structures in nature. Could again also be cybernetics ala something like renegade Shepard's sithface eyes.

 

There was also Cerberus looking over a Quarian body in one of the books that described them as a lot like humans, the noted difference being their ears.

Yes, in Ascension. Mentioned to have similar eyes and lids, lips, teeth, cheekbones and facial structure but with much different ear structures.